Negotiating OTD price with Dealer

[Barkingshins_imp]

This coming Spring I intend to purchase the deluxe model of the 2014 CB1100. This will be my first NEW bike purchase and I want to make sure that I don't get screwed by the dealer due to my own naiveté.

I went to a local Honda dealer earlier this week and put down a $500 deposit on the bike. The salesman walked me through what the OTD price would likely end up being when the time comes and I was shocked to see that they were expecting me to end up paying somewhere around $13,500... for a bike with an MSRP of $11,899!? That seems pretty ridiculous to me. There was, of course, tax, title and reg fees but, on top on those, there were freight and setup charges that tacked on another $700 or so. Am I being jerked around? Should I try to negotiate those fees out of the OTD or is that an exercise in futility? If they won't budge, should I take my money and go elsewhere? What is normal?

Any advice on this would be very welcome. Thank you!

 

[HikerToo_imp]

I think mine was MSRP 10K + 1K for them, and than they came "down" $200 from there, dealers in our area do not bargain much, our area is doing well economically. You will see others on this forum who get much better deals.

 

[davidsargee_imp]

I'm no expert, but the "set up" fees are not uncommon.

You are purchasing a bike that has not yet been released, so the dealer really has no incentive right now to "deal" with you. If they had 3 of them on the sales floor with no prospective buyers, you would be more likely to get a bargain. But in this circumstance, they probably won't.

If you want to save money, you may be better served to wait until the bikes are in the showroom, if they aren't moving, negotiation would be more likely to be effective.

Having said that, I know you are excited and really want the bike, so if it's what you want, go for it. If you are happy with what you get, you made a good deal. Don't stress over it.

Enjoy

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

My rule of thumb for buying a typical bike new is if you pay MSRP as the OTD price, you did fairly well. But there's a zillion exceptions, and putting down a deposit for a fairly rare bike is one of them.

Setup and shipping charges are typical and you aren't getting screwed.

 

[AzBob_imp]

Freight/setup are fairly standard charges. At MSRP, they're making about $1,500 on the bike, plus some of that freight/setup charge (there _IS_ some cost to the dealer to un-crate and assemble the bike). Since you're (attempting to) purchase a bike that isn't even available yet, they are in the driver's seat -- which was pretty much the case with mine, even though they had three of them last April. Your best bet for buying any vehicle (or anything at all) is to be in a position of not really caring if you get the thing or not. All that being said, I'm pretty sure I paid MSRP, and the dealer ate the freight/setup charge when I bought mine, but like I said, they had three in the store. Now, if you were to purchase a 2013, you can probably get it for ~9k + tax/title/license. Financially, new vehicles are a total boondoggle.

 

[flynrider]

As others have pointed out, you're not in a great bargaining position. If you were willing to wait until the bikes were actually on the floor, no doubt you could do much better.

The problem is much the same as the one I had last March. Each dealer I talked to was either getting one or two of the 2013 models and no one knew if there would be any more after that. In order to make sure I got mine, I was going to have to pay more. The best deal I could make was MSRP + tax, title and license. They knocked off the freight and setup. Had I waited until the bikes had been out for 4 or 5 months, I could have paid $800 - $900 less.

Bottom line, if the dealer knows you're going to buy from them (the deposit being a dead giveaway), they won't be shy about tacking on whatever extras they can think of. The best you can do is to try and negotiate as much of that out of the price as possible.

 

[Barkingshins_imp]

Thank you everyone. I'll see what I can do to have them knock the freight and setup off of the price. If they won't do it, I'll call some of the other dealers around town and try to play them against each other for the lowest OTD price. If nobody will budge, fine. $13,500 it is! One way or another, I will be riding a 2014 CB1100 Deluxe this Spring.

Thanks again for all of your input.

 

[flynrider]

Good luck!

Hey, I just noticed the '76 KZ750 in your sig. I had 4 Kaw 750 twins back in the old days, including a red '76. Those were the days when the inline-4s were too pricey for my budget. Great bikes.

 

[OldF7Guy_imp]

Good luck!

Hey, I just noticed the '76 KZ750 in your sig. I had 4 Kaw 750 twins back in the old days, including a red '76. Those were the days when the inline-4s were too pricey for my budget. Great bikes.

I vaguely remember the twin 750 Kaws from back in the day also. Wasnt it marketed as a budget 750 for those who didnt want to slap down the extra money for the inline 4's? I dont remember much about them to be honest. Wasnt this also about the same time that Kaw advertised their new 650/4 as outrunning any 750 right out of the crate or something to that effect?

 

[CIP57_imp]

They have not even announced price yet on this bike.

2014 Honda CB1100 EX, Closer to the Real Retro Vibe

The price seems real high. I would wait and negotiate between dealers when they hit the floor. 15% increase over last years model seems high I would not lay down any money without MSRP being announced yet.
(guess they must have sold well)

Example: I paid $9800 for mine last years with the msrp at $9999 plus tax. No dealer prep or other charges.

 

[Hittheroad_imp]

I bought my CB1100 in August and I got it OTD $299.00 below the MSRP price! It might have the time of year but I thought it was a good price. Osseo Powersports is a smaller shop, but I like it better than the Mega shops. I've heard from a few people that they have the best prices in the TC's.

 

[Guth_imp]

I put down the deposit on my 2013 CB1100 back in 2012. I got the first one that my dealer received and I paid MSRP for it, along with title and licensing fees. There were no set up charges and we have no sales tax here in Oregon. I felt that this was a fair deal for a bike that had just reached our shores for the first time ever.

Had I waited until later in the year, I know that I would have been able to purchase the bike for even less. But then I wouldn't have been able to enjoy it for those first number of months, and there were a lot of priceless moments during that period of time with the bike. This was the first time that I had purchased a brand new motorcycle and I wouldn't change a thing about my decisions and experience.

Whatever ends up happening, I hope you enjoy your new CB to the fullest once the bike has become yours!


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[Barkingshins_imp]

Flynrider,
The KZ has been my first and only motorcycle for nearly a decade now. I got it as a bit of a basket-case that had been rotting away in the back of a friend's garage for 12 years... or at least that's how old the tabs on it were. I had always been interested in owning a bike and he owed me $100 for helping him with some work on his house so I suggested he keep the cash and give me the bike instead. He gladly accepted my offer and surprisingly still had the title so, I was suddenly the owner of a motorcycle... a motorcycle that hadn't been started in over a decade and whose tank and carbs I quickly discovered were caked in varnished gas. God alone knew what else was wrong with it. I found a Factory Service Manual for the bike online and spent the better part of that whole summer learning how to fix motorcycles... or THAT motorcycle at least. The first time it fired up and ran remains to this day one of the more exhilarating moments of my life.

It's been an around-town commuter for me for awhile now and seems to run a little better every year. However, it doesn't run perfectly and I don't trust it enough to take it out of the city. Hence my search for a new bike. The CB1100 will fit the bill nicely I think. Sadly, due to limited garage space, I will probably be trying to sell the Kaw this Spring when the CB arrives. That will be sad for me but, hopefully whoever buys it will have more time and money than I do and will continue working on it and returning it to its former glory.

 

[Blockhead_imp]

I've bought three bikes in the past two years and have never paid the extra fees; just tax and license registration. Only one dealer tried to charge me and I said no way, and he quickly backed down. I guess it depends on location etc.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Find the space whatever it takes.


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[Greg Davis_imp]

Find the space whatever it takes.


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If MSRP is $11,900 you should be able to purchase bike for that plus appropriate sales tax. i.e. 7% sales tax = 833 MSRP of $11,900 = $12,733. that is fair profit for dealer, fair price for you. extra fees are bull crap. I would think 90% or the Honda dealers in the country would be glad to sell you one for that. It's nice to buy local, if they treat you right, but if not, you can drive an hour or so and buy one for that price, guaranteed.
If MSRP is $11,900 you should be able to purchase bike for that plus appropriate sales tax. i.e. 7% sales tax = 833 MSRP of $11,900 = $12,733. that is fair profit for dealer, fair price for you. extra fees are bull crap. I would think 90% or the Honda dealers in the country would be glad to sell you one for that. It's nice to buy local, if they treat you right, but if not, you can drive an hour or so and buy one for that price, guaranteed.
Also, DOC fees are bull Sh&% Doc fees should be called additional dealer profit. they hide behind Doc fee.

 

[thumper_imp]

Your question is too difficult to answer in general terms. You've already stated that this will be your first "new" bike purchase. That changes things a lot.

I like my local Honda dealer. I know the owner, the sales manager, the parts manager, the service manager, etc., etc. I own four Honda's, and they all came from this dealership. I've been doing business with them for almost 30 years.

With that in mind, I try to make "fair" deals with them. I'm in the market to pay as little money as possible for a new motorcycle, but I'm also a fair-minded person, knowing that these people are trying to run a brick-and-mortar motorcycle shop that has overhead costs. If they were to close-down, I'd be screwed when it comes to service needs, and future bike purchases. And we all know the motorcycle market is still not really healthy in the US.

When I ordered my CB1100ABS, we never discussed price. The bike was brand-new to the market, had been highly-sought by the customer base (us!), and its future success in the American market was an unknown. It's only real competition (in my opinion) is the much smaller Triumph Bonneville line. When my bike arrived, without haggle my dealer knocked $500 off the price, but I did pay tax, freight, license, etc. He was happy, and I was happy.

But, with other bikes, I've been a shark. As an example, when the 2010 VFR1200F came out, there was a lot of hype, but they didn't sell. I loved the looks of the bike since the first time I'd seen photos. But, I wasn't going to pay the MSRP of $17,500 (DCT). My dealer had one, and I watched it sit on the showroom floor for over a year and a half. Every time I went into the dealership, I secretly drooled over that bike, but turned-away at the price tag hanging from the handlebar.

A few years earlier, in 2009 I had traded a Yamaha V-max into the dealership when I bought a CBR600RR for track riding. The V-max sat in their "used" showroom for two years (they were asking too much for it). One day the sales manager e-mailed me to say they'd "finally!" sold that V-max, and he joked that I needed to come buy something new. So, knowing I had the upper hand, I told him I'd take that VFR1200F DCT off his hands, and I threw down a ridiculous number. He ultimately capitulated, and I bought a very nice brand-new motorcycle for many thousands of dollars under MSRP.

So, long story short, you may have a tough time walking into a dealership as a brand-new (unknown) customer, asking for the "friends and family" discount on a brand-new model of motorcycle. And as other people have already said, various financial markets across the country affect our ability to accurately assess what a "good deal" really is. A good deal in the snow belt is much different than a good deal in always-sunny, ride 365 days-a-year southern California.

Bottom line--if after the purchase you feel you were treated fairly, then that's all that matters.

 

[Guth_imp]

Great post above by thumper.

 

[flynrider]

Good luck!

Hey, I just noticed the '76 KZ750 in your sig. I had 4 Kaw 750 twins back in the old days, including a red '76. Those were the days when the inline-4s were too pricey for my budget. Great bikes.

I vaguely remember the twin 750 Kaws from back in the day also. Wasnt it marketed as a budget 750 for those who didnt want to slap down the extra money for the inline 4's? I dont remember much about them to be honest. Wasnt this also about the same time that Kaw advertised their new 650/4 as outrunning any 750 right out of the crate or something to that effect?

Exactly. If you couldn't afford the pricier inline 4s, the twin was the alternatve budget bike. Much like Yammie's XS650 twin was the alternative to their much more expensive inline triple and four cylinder XJ bikes.

At the time, Kaw's popular KZ650/4 made about the same hp as the other mfrs. 750s, but was lighter (and therefore faster). Kaw didn't get around to making a 750/4 until 1980.

The twins didn't have the horsepower of the fours (about 52 at the rear wheel), but they had plenty of torque and were solid as a rock. I used to race one against the 4 cyl. UJMs in the 80s and it would tear 'em up our tight road course, but they'd catch up on the long straightaway.

My favorite was the '80 LTD twin. It was my first brand new bike and, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, I paid the $2K MSRP out the door. It looked just like this one :

Flynrider,
The KZ has been my first and only motorcycle for nearly a decade now. I got it as a bit of a basket-case that had been rotting away in the back of a friend's garage for 12 years... or at least that's how old the tabs on it were. I had always been interested in owning a bike and he owed me $100 for helping him with some work on his house so I suggested he keep the cash and give me the bike instead. He gladly accepted my offer and surprisingly still had the title so, I was suddenly the owner of a motorcycle... a motorcycle that hadn't been started in over a decade and whose tank and carbs I quickly discovered were caked in varnished gas. God alone knew what else was wrong with it. I found a Factory Service Manual for the bike online and spent the better part of that whole summer learning how to fix motorcycles... or THAT motorcycle at least. The first time it fired up and ran remains to this day one of the more exhilarating moments of my life.

It's been an around-town commuter for me for awhile now and seems to run a little better every year. However, it doesn't run perfectly and I don't trust it enough to take it out of the city. Hence my search for a new bike. The CB1100 will fit the bill nicely I think. Sadly, due to limited garage space, I will probably be trying to sell the Kaw this Spring when the CB arrives. That will be sad for me but, hopefully whoever buys it will have more time and money than I do and will continue working on it and returning it to its former glory.

Wow. Great job bringing that one back to life. I'm sure the next owner will probably get another 10 yrs. out of it. By the time i got rid of my last one, I'd ridden about 250K miles on 750 twins.

Going from that to a CB1100 is going to be quite a treat. The first thing you'll notice is the lack of vibration, followed by the kind of acceleration you've only dreamed of

 

[the Ferret]

I've always liked parallel twins and rode all of the ones available during that time frame, the real Triumph Bonneville, the 750 Norton, even rode a Matchless once, rode the Suzuki Tempter, the Honda CB 500, and the Yamaha TX500, TX/XS650's, and TX 750. The Yamaha 650 twins appealed to me the most and I ended up owning 3 of them a 73 TX, a 79 XS and an 81 XS Special. I also bought a 2003 Hinkley Triumph Bonneville which was one heck of a bike, but I still prefer the Yamaha 650 twins.