Had an unexpected 3some the other night. Urgent relationship advice needed!!

E11even_Hunnit

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Haven't posted here in ages.

Figured I'd take the opportunity to have some fun trying out the brand new forum sharing a pleasantly unexpected, but intense encounter I was not prepared for the other night..

Tensions have been running a bit high on my mind recently with regards to my beloved CB. I originally purchased it to replace an original '82 Freddie Spencer 900F that I owned for under 3 years. Tall, somewhat impractical, raw, and full of character, but man did I grow to love that bike, and miss it dearly.
FS9F.webp

Outside of not making me smell like I had showered in gasoline for the day, I had no real expectations getting into the CB11. During my test ride, I was blown away at how smooth and composed it was compared to the old F. Modern fuel injection and a 6th gear sealed the deal for me, and the shorter height turned out to be somewhat of a plus in disguise. Now approaching my 7th year of ownership, It's the single bike I've owned the longest, and needless to say, I've come to really love this bike- especially after "dialing it in" my way over the years.

Ironically enough, the guy who sold me the 900F confidently told me "these bikes will go up in price since they're bringing back a new 900F based on it". That was back in 2018. Naturally curious by his statement, I did periodical digging and researching if his claim was any true, and found that as with most rad vehicles, we tend to get the short end of the stick here in the North American market- only rumors and opinion pieces that claimed the bike was "in development" stages but with no real plans of stateside arrival.

My daydreaming window-shopping attention turned to the CB11 that I had always quietly admired from a far since first laying eyes on it on Shattuck Ave. sometime in 2014. It was an Alizarin red '13 which reminded me alot of the unattainable 750k I was after for years before settling for an XS650 some time prior. Almost like love at first sight for those of you who've experienced it firsthand. 5 years later, the improved 6 speed blacked out version had made it's way to the second hand market, at a time where I was eyeing a worthy replacement for the 900F.

Guhl tuned, cafe'd out, she's by far the most reliable vehicle on the current fleet and is amazing to ride, for the most part. I developed a left fork leak that has progressively gotten worse over the last 2 years. The valve cover too, I believe, due to the prolonged higher RPM freeway mileage. It's been on my mind for the longest to address these main pain points with a proper sprocket setup for my riding habits, as well as an upgraded front end- which I've been wrestling with for the longest due to the complexity and plain fear of ruining the bike's handling and stability.

Over the last year or so, I've finally acquired most of the parts for what I feel is a reasonable but mild front end upgrade- '17ex Showa upgrade, clip-ons, front fender, and Motodemic headlight. Not the modern sportbike inverted front end I'd like, but more of a direct swap that does not leave me with mismatching diameter wheels and a whole other drawing board on sorting out the rear end setup. Then, in the last ~month or so, 2 things I kinda wish hadn't happen sorta did:
1.) The arrival of the new '26 1000F, in Freddie Spencer bodywork, for my luck.
2.) A recent DIY "write-up" for a viable 17" wheel upgrade using Yamaha parts.

This has me hesitating, almost sweating cold, trying to decide on what the best path forward is and sensible next steps...

Since fellow forum member @DutchRutter recent jumping of ship into a new 1000F, I've felt conflicted with regards to making a decision. Told myself I'd hold off on my planned CB11 overhaul until I'm able to catch a 1000F at a showroom somewhere for first-hand impressions that would hopefully allow me to have more clarity and keep me from making a bad decision.

Then, out of nowhere, she came looking for me, and not the other way around, as I figured would be the case with the current stealership allocations. This particular one had less than 50 miles on the clock, and no owner immediately around for me to ask 1,000 questions. Figured with so little seat time, his impressions probably still aren't fully developed to be valid anyway.
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At a glance, she's taller, shinier, and more reminiscing of a 919 hornet continuation rather than a return of the original 900F. Strikes me like more of a neo sports cafe dressed up in iconic Freddie Spencer fairings. Nicely executed, no doubt, but I do wonder how raw this thing really is when compared to the well-reviewed 1000R that was almost sold at the same time as the last '17 ex models.

All of this to say, I'm confused as ever. If the 1000F hadn't made it this side of the pond, maybe I'd be leaning more towards the 17" wheel upgrade. but in that hypothetical scenario, am I then left with a UJM playing neo cafe? And if that's the case, is she even good at playing that part at all? It's likely around ~$1,500 going that route once all is said and done, but would it deliver objective handling benefits ontop of the visuals? Or am I actually ruining the bike altogether by Frankensteining in the name of aesthetics?

I realize many of you are die hard RLET-level purists, which I'm clearly not. But I'd still value any input, thoughts and perspectives on my current dilemma. There isn't a ton of info out there on the 1000F yet, so all I can really do is try to solve for the other side of the equation, it seems.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. In the rare event you made it this far, you're the real MVP's!

Bonus points to whoever can figure out which CB this random gyal was breaking neck for!!

4.webp
 
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Nice dilema. Since you asked for input... how important are factors such as: air-cooled vs. radiator? / 12 year old bike vs. a brand new one? How much money will you spend if you sell CB and buy 1000F--is that an issue? Could you buy the 1000F w/out selling the CB? Maybe you will love it and then you'll know you don't mind selling the CB later on. Or maybe you do the modications you have in mind and keep the CB for several years more and enjoy the changes you made, and then take another look at the 1000F--it will likey still be available. I went through a phase of trying out bikes without stressing about how long I would keep them--a Triumph Speet Twin, RE INT650, 2 Kawasaki w800s, sold them after just 1-2 years of ownership. And I would like to have kept them all, just not feasible. But the one constant during all of them was that I kept my '17 CB1100ex. If it were me (and I were "stricken" with the new bike) I'd buy it, ride it for 1-2 years, do the planned mods to the CB, and then decide whether to sell one or the other later on. My suspicion is that you will love the new bike and will be much more willing to let the CB go
 
Oh man, what a dilemma! Yeah, when rumblings of that CB1000F were being bantered about around 2018 as you said, I was in the "Nah, won't make it over here" camp. But, I put the early sketch of it on my computer wallpaper screen and dreamed. However, I did not have the original 900F to compare it to.

For me, at the time, the CB1100 was real, while the CB1000F was a far-off "maybe". Now that it's here and real as well, I'm resisting the urge to go look at one. I've never bought a new motorcycle off of the showroom floor, but man it sure looks nice!
 
I will say this, I've now got some more seat time on the new bike. (I'll get a spirited riding video up soon). The newer bikes do loose some of the spirit/feel of the older bikes, and with the added tech that is a given. But Honda did a good job with these bikes and keeps a lot of that. Albeit, it can feel a bit fake/simulated vs natural. I am still a big fan. Insurance cost however, is a real thing to be concerned with. my CB1100 and shadow 1100 were around $38 a month well covered. Just adding this brought it up to $96.71 a month. Liter bike tax I guess. I also just added the OEM fairing, which is a bit more square then round like I thought it was going to be.
 
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Man, you guys rock! Exactly what I needed- some objective advice and experience that only comes with years of ridership and wisdom.

To address a few points:
Unfortunately, I do not currently have the space to own them both at once and rotate them to decide which one I'd prefer to keep over time. Nor am I racking enough miles these days to justify such feat. My 'one-car-solution' is being well served by the slack that the CB11 cuts me living in downtown SF and being able to lean on public transit as needed when riding the CB isn't as convenient as it usually seems to be.
After giving some more thought to my first-world dilemma, I think I've realized that paying brand new-bike-sticker(haven't done this since I was 21 for a Crossplane R1) may not be worth it for a substantially different bike than the one I keep telling myself I'd be jumping back into, in my mind- the old 900F's raw essence is hard to replicate.

The 1000F is a monoshock, water cooled, apparently -de-tuned- 1000R that's watered down in some shape or form. Or so says my ignorant assumptions. That's not to ignore the XSR900 or Z900RS that my eyes have been flirting with and trying to ignore for almost a decade now. I honestly just haven't ridden any of the aforementioned to have an educated opinion and see if the riding feel is worth looking at an uglyass radiator all the time. From a maintenance perspective, I don't necessarily see it being a huge deal breaker, I suppose. The fast Freddie bodywork is evidently THE weak spot for me, and one that may allow many things to get by..
The insurance considerations, for an early 30's individual that may or may not be suffering of chronic lead foot syndrome are certainly worth factoring in, so that insight is most certainly appreciated in this day and age, when ins. carriers are relentlessly attempting to pull out of CA due to weird laws that only make sense to the Getty family-level clowns running the show.

All in all, I think that wording my first-world problems has probably been half the battle so far. It may very well be certainly unfair to compare a modern day delta-box-style Mono shocked frame dressed up in vintage bodywork vs. the feel that a true dual-shock vintage water cooled bike is able to deliver. Especially when you factor-in the unique character of the last of the air-cooled 1000c sold by Honda in the NA market. As you all may have suggested, over time, the 1000F may be easier to replace than a true gem that is now part of Honda's past. I'm in no particular rush to trade-up such a limited, unique bike that has been nothing but good to me in favor of a perhaps more common bike that'd be easier to replace.

I welcome you all to continue to chime in with any valuable input and thoughts on the matter. It seems I'm not the only one!!
 
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I think you've already arrived at your conclusion. For me it was easy, as I've been riding only for 5 years, and my first bike was my cb1100, and before that my dad had a shadow 1100 ACE which I got to ride on the back of. So I never really got seat time on the actual true hero bikes that alot of you got to experience. For what you're after, sticking with it is a great choice. Kind of like the old adage of "never meet your heros".

But at the end of the day. Everyone should ride what brings them joy.
 
My two cents is that the 2017 forks were specifically designed by Honda engineers to fix reported dissatisfaction with the earlier CB1100 suspension, so you aren't Frankensteining your bike by following Honda's lead in harmoniously improving your bike. If you are worried about resale, keep the original forks to put back on if ever you decide to sell, and sell the 2017 forks on eBay.

The 17" swap IS a Frankenstein deal and I think it is highly questionable that it will work harmoniously with your bike, possibly affecting rake and trail and how the rest of the bike is supposed to work together cohesively (again the 2017 forks are cohesive by design).

And then there's the looks. The bike will look unchanged swapping the 2017 forks. It'll remain as Honda envisioned it. The 17" swap, not at all.
 
I just passed the 300 mile mark on the CB1000F, which included some spirited riding on twisty mountain roads. I have to say that the new CB is not really a retro classic like the CB1100. It is very much a naked sport bike (a la CB1000R) dressed up in some Spencer-ish retro clothing. After some miles on the streets, freeways and Twisties, I can say that the 1000F and the CB1100 have almost nothing in common. They're two entirely different riding experiences. One is a refined retro experience that you'd expect from an 80s era, air-cooled, dual shock and relatively heavy standard. The other is an ultra quick, nimble, high revving experience that one would expect from a modern liquid cooled, monoshock, relatively light weight sport bike.

The difference was brought home clearly today after riding both bikes back to back. I took the 1000F out for a test ride after fitting the NC Street Shield from one of my older CBs. Afterwards, I hopped on the CB1100 to go fill it up with gas and it hit me immediately as I was leaving the neighborhood. The older CB took quite a bit more effort to maneuver at street speeds and lacked the neck-snapping acceleration. The extra weight and conventional suspension makes the ride feel like... well, an old time UJM, which is pretty much what Honda was going for back in 2010. My 33 yr. old CB750 rides very much the same. The F is just a completely different animal.

That said, I'm still up in the air about whether or not to keep all three CBs. Space in the garage is tight, but manageable. Each of the bikes have their own character which I've grown to admire. For now, I plan on riding all three on a strict rotation. Fwithshield_copy_1600x1200.webp
 
Good to see you test riding the new ones for us all @flynrider! I can't afford it, so many thanks. :D
 
It's funny reading this thread as it is very much a reflection of what has gone through my mind since seeing the 1000F. The first images had me thoroughly interested in the new bike, as I love the looks in general, and although the watercooling could be better done as far as looks are concerned the digital dash is really an eyesore.

I currently have my beloved CB and a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XC. I had bought the Triumph initially as I was having issues with my bent knees on the CB (I am tall, and getting on in age). The really like the looks of the Scrambler, excelling at keeping the classic look yet with everything else totally modern. After 5 years of riding it regularly, I find it an excellent bike that has been outstanding for longer tours as well as commuting to the office. Everything is great with it, until I get back on the CB...

What bothers me with the Scrambler primarily is the current reliance on electronics. I get that this is how things are done these days, and there is no argument against the advantages it can bring. Yet I never change the ride settings, and the only modern advantage I use regularly while on it is the cruise control. The downside is that if anything goes wrong with the electronics the bike will go nowhere. Add to that the fact that these days bike manufacturers tend to put the smallest possible battery in their bikes with the claim that it saves weight, but seriously it's not like a kilo gained on the battery will change anything on the bike's handling. However, it does mean that a battery will have to be changed yearly, and you will experience the annoyance of going out for a ride and the bike is dead. The CB on the other hand just works, and in case the battery happens to be a bit weak, you can still push start it and go for a ride.

Anyway, back to the 1000F. My first thought was that perhaps I could get rid of my two current bikes, and just get the 1000F. I would have some great looks, and benefit from a proper modern bike with all the advantages this may bring. However, after trying it out, I just don't click with it. When I ride my CB, it always feels like a great experience. Sure, the handling could be better (and for sure, when riding on some rougher roads and comparing it to the Scrambler with hugely better suspension the limits are obvious) but it is really part of what makes the bike an incredible experience. If the road is in poor shape, slow down! I always come back with a smile on my face, yet after riding the 1000F, well it was just so-so. Yes, it handles better and has more performance. Any canyon road I take will be faster on the 1000F, but does that really matter? For me what matters most is how I feel, and there for me the CB is in a different category.

Having started running on a regular basis since over a year I no longer have any knee issues, and so over the last year the Scrambler has remained mostly dormant. I think in the end, just to make space I will end up with a one-bike situation, just it will be the CB that I keep. Through my years of riding I have gone through many different phases of what brings me pleasure. At times it was beating the lap time on a track with a supersports, then it could have been touring for a week sometimes fast, sometimes more to see the scenery. Nowdays it is just to go for a nice long ride, thoroughly enjoy the experience in every way, and have a huge smile on my face when I get back home.
 
If I were you and had a dilemma of getting rid of one from the two existing bikes to make some room or… for the CB1000f, I would definitely ditch the Scrambler
 
@Henrik & @flynrider, thanks for those posts.

Both of you have put actual experience behind what has been bugging me about the CB1000F and other "retros."

I won't beat a dead horse, but I do think there is a difference in design honesty between the CB1100 and the others.

The Triumphs add carburetor-looking TBs, fake cooling fins, and even fake shocks to their bikes, then fiddle with electronics to simulate a retro-ish experience.

The CB1000F is a naked sports bike with a retro wrapper.

And finally--sincere question--other than bragging rights and at least partly subconscious knee-jerk cultural biases, does an honest road bike need more than 90HP? I have yet to take advantage of 60mph in 3.5 seconds or getting a quarter of a mile away from a stop sign in 12 seconds. Do we need more power?

I myself suspect that "bigger is better" bias drives bike manufacturers to build ever more powerful bikes for marketing purposes that then need to be babysat by a computer when the rubber actually hits the road.

(Related: our wetware wants to equate increased jerkiness with power--this applies to acceleration in a straight line as well as flickiness. The human brain tends to underappreciate smoothly delivered acceleration.)

The CB1100 is alone in attempting to be as pure and honest as the K0, etc. that inspires it; the rest aren't even trying, and--as the previous posters point out--are a completely different thing, which is fine, just playing in a wholly different league.
 
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Man, this got me thinking. I’ve been going to every demo day at the local dealer and really like the Trident 800 and the new 800 Suzuki models. They’re all quick and nimble, something none of my bikes are.

The CB1000F has been swirling around in my think-stack a lot. Along with thoughts of “do I really need three classic bikes?”, the Bonneville, the Interceptor 650 and the CB1100. I love all of them, but…
 
@Henrik & @flynrider, thanks for those posts.

Both of you have put actual experience behind what has been bugging me about the CB1000F and other "retros."

I won't beat a dead horse, but I do think there is a difference in design honesty between the CB1100 and the others.

The Triumphs add carburetor-looking TBs, fake cooling fins, and even fake shocks to their bikes, then fiddle with electronics to simulate a retro-ish experience.

The CB1000F is a naked sports bike with a retro wrapper.

And finally--sincere question--other than bragging rights and at least partly subconscious knee-jerk cultural biases, does an honest road bike need more than 90HP? I have yet to take advantage of 60mph in 3.5 seconds or getting a quarter of a mile away from a stop sign in 12 seconds. Do we need more power?

I myself suspect that "bigger is better" bias drives bike manufacturers to build ever more powerful bikes for marketing purposes that then need to be babysat by a computer when the rubber actually hits the road.

(Related: our wetware wants to equate increased jerkiness with power--this applies to acceleration in a straight line as well as flickiness. The human brain tends to underappreciate smoothly delivered acceleration.)

The CB1100 is alone in attempting to be as pure and honest as the K0, etc. that inspires it; the rest aren't even trying, and--as the previous posters point out--are a completely different thing, which is fine, just playing in a wholly different league.
No. 90HP is more than enough for virtually all owners of a CB1100 unless they have heavily customized the motorcycle for some kind of track experience for reasons I will never understand. We need the weight for stability and we need the horse power so the engine is never stressed even at highway speeds, which accounts for its long life and pleasurable riding experience. :) David
 
I forgot to mention the weight benefit.

(y)​
Any extra struggle in the garage is more than made up for not having to struggle as much amongst strong winds on the road.
 
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