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Sounds like the right approach Dave, reading back through all your posts i conclude that you haven't yet used contact cleaner on the connector, is that right?
Not suggesting you do that either at this stage, just checking.
Did a test on my tps connector which is;
switch engine on, not starting it and watching the "check engine light".
slowly unclipping the connector and carefully sliding it out of it's position until the light starts flashing ( when the contacts break ).
It takes 3 seconds for the ecm to respond ( in my case ) and flash the light, so i slide 1 mm at a time and wait 4 seconds in between movements to make sure the ecm has not detected a disconnect.
This way i can slide the connector out for 4 mm before the light comes on.
What this means is that the contacts are positioned correctly in the housing and make contact over a long enough distance to be reliable from that perspective, it does not mean they are clean and make good contact, it only means they are in the right place.
Interesting about your contact cleaning pdedse and the effect it had, i will purposely not draw any conclusions since it is early days and we've been here before.
max
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(01-28-2018, 02:56 AM)pdedse_imp Wrote: (01-28-2018, 01:23 AM)Dave_imp Wrote: So I put 45 miles on the CB yesterday running errands, (30 miles on the freeway, 15 miles around town) hoping that I could make some progress diagnosing the idle problem. Before riding I rechecked the voltage at the TPS black/red connection with the bike off, sensor connected, and it measured .5 volts with the throttle closed, and it smoothly transitioned to 4.3 volts with the throttle wide open (it measured 4.4 volts with the throttle wide open the last time I measured it). I then checked the voltage with the engine started: .5 volts at idle (1,400 RPM cold), and a smooth increase as I twisted the throttle. I left the sewing needle plugged into the TPS connector, removed the battery cover (for quick access to the battery negative terminal), and packed my VOM in the trunk and set off. Unfortunately the low idle condition never occurred, and I did not make any additional measurements. I made four stops, where I turned the engine off, and probably over a dozen red lights, where the ide speed was a perfect 1,050 RPM each time. I am hoping the wife will agree to go for a ride today where we can rack up some good miles, and I will bring the VOM along (the sewing needle is still plugged into the TPS connection. I’ll make the measurements suggested by peterbaron also. Thanks for all your help guys.
Still watching this...I'm pulling for you, Dave! I keep hoping that it's simply a TPS connectivity issue for you.
(01-28-2018, 01:23 AM)Dave_imp Wrote: So I put 45 miles on the CB yesterday running errands, (30 miles on the freeway, 15 miles around town) hoping that I could make some progress diagnosing the idle problem. Before riding I rechecked the voltage at the TPS black/red connection with the bike off, sensor connected, and it measured .5 volts with the throttle closed, and it smoothly transitioned to 4.3 volts with the throttle wide open (it measured 4.4 volts with the throttle wide open the last time I measured it). I then checked the voltage with the engine started: .5 volts at idle (1,400 RPM cold), and a smooth increase as I twisted the throttle. I left the sewing needle plugged into the TPS connector, removed the battery cover (for quick access to the battery negative terminal), and packed my VOM in the trunk and set off. Unfortunately the low idle condition never occurred, and I did not make any additional measurements. I made four stops, where I turned the engine off, and probably over a dozen red lights, where the ide speed was a perfect 1,050 RPM each time. I am hoping the wife will agree to go for a ride today where we can rack up some good miles, and I will bring the VOM along (the sewing needle is still plugged into the TPS connection. I’ll make the measurements suggested by peterbaron also. Thanks for all your help guys.
It woldn't dare act up with her along!
It woldn't dare act up with her along!
There’s also a law of the universe that says it won’t act up when you’re fully prepared to figure out the reason. Sometimes it’s hard to accept machines are inanimate.
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Put 191 miles on the CB today. We were totally prepared with my meter, the sewing needle stuck into the TPS connector, and the wife with her smart phone to record. About 50 miles of freeway, the rest on back/mountain/ desert roads. Stopped at least 20 times at lights. Turned the engine off and on 3 times. Temperature ranged from mid 60's to low 80's. Bike could not have performed better. Each time the idle was a perfect 1,050 RPM. I swear that when the low idle condition is NOT present the bike just runs better, and I say this because I can sense the bike responds quicker and better to throttle input when I am blipping the throttle on down shifts. I will continue to carry my meter with me whenever I ride, and I will repeat the TPS voltage test if/whenever the low idle condition returns.
Max, I have not used any cleaner to spray on my TPS contacts, yet. I deliberately have not done this because I do not want to introduce too many variables into the equation at one time. Thanks again, to all you great guys who are working to find a solution to this problem.
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(01-28-2018, 12:53 PM)Dave_imp Wrote: Put 191 miles on the CB today. We were totally prepared with my meter, the sewing needle stuck into the TPS connector, and the wife with her smart phone to record. About 50 miles of freeway, the rest on back/mountain/ desert roads. Stopped at least 20 times at lights. Turned the engine off and on 3 times. Temperature ranged from mid 60's to low 80's. Bike could not have performed better. Each time the idle was a perfect 1,050 RPM. I swear that when the low idle condition is NOT present the bike just runs better, and I say this because I can sense the bike responds quicker and better to throttle input when I am blipping the throttle on down shifts. I will continue to carry my meter with me whenever I ride, and I will repeat the TPS voltage test if/whenever the low idle condition returns.
Max, I have not used any cleaner to spray on my TPS contacts, yet. I deliberately have not done this because I do not want to introduce too many variables into the equation at one time. Thanks again, to all you great guys who are working to find a solution to this problem.
Awesome! But the one new variable you did introduce was that your wife was along.
What does it mean if the issue comes back now without your wife along for the ride?
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Awesome! But the one new variable you did introduce was that your wife was along.
Actually, she has been on the back for more miles accumulated on this bike than not. I chose this bike to use for our Sunday afternoon rides. I wanted to slow the pace down a little (compared to riding my VFR800), and be able to carry more things (I have a luggage rack with a detachable trunk, that has a back rest on it).
What does it mean if the issue comes back now without your wife along for the ride?
I have hoped several times already that the issue doesn't return after it mysteriously goes away, but it has come back every time. I guess it just means that we haven't solved the real issue, yet.
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(01-29-2018, 01:01 PM)Dave_imp Wrote: Awesome! But the one new variable you did introduce was that your wife was along.
Actually, she has been on the back for more miles accumulated on this bike than not. I chose this bike to use for our Sunday afternoon rides. I wanted to slow the pace down a little (compared to riding my VFR800), and be able to carry more things (I have a luggage rack with a detachable trunk, that has a back rest on it).
What does it mean if the issue comes back now without your wife along for the ride?
I have hoped several times already that the issue doesn't return after it mysteriously goes away, but it has come back every time. I guess it just means that we haven't solved the real issue, yet.
Just kidding, of course, you know I'm hoping a fix is soon found. Did it act up again since the two of you went out two days ago?
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Low idle/stall condition is back. Rode the bike to a restaurant tonite about 5 miles (mostly freeway) from home and it ran perfectly (stopped at 4 stop lights). I stayed off the freeway on the way home and stopped to get gas, when I discovered the slow idle condition was creeping back. I rode around my neighborhood only 3 more miles before the 700 RPM idle condition was back in full force. I immediately pulled into my garage and turned the bike off with the key so that I could remove the seat and connect my meter to the negative battery terminal. I performed the voltage tests at the TPS with the TPS connected, and the results were slightly different from the last time I performed them.
Bike off:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 volts (last time I measured was 4.8 volts)
Black/Red = 0.45 volts throttle closed, 4.6 volts full throttle
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
Bike running:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 - 4.8 volts (yes, it went up)
Black/Red = 0.5 volts bike idling, voltage increased with throttle opening
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
I started the bike and kept it in the garage, TPS connected, blipping the throttle, all while measuring the voltage at the Black/Red connection. The idle remained constant, at about 1,050 RPM initially, but the voltage at idle varied from .4 to .5 volts. After about a dozen blips of the throttle the 700 RPM idle returned, and after about another half dozen blips of the throttle the engine stalled. Each time the RPM dropped to 700 RPM it would slowly work its way back up to roughly 1,000 RPM. At no time during the 700 RPM idle and gradual increase to 1,000 RPM condition did I observe any difference in the measured voltage at the Black/Red connector, even when the engine stalled. After the engine stalled I immediately checked the voltage at the Black/Yellow connection. Initially I was getting zero volts, but after playing with the sewing needle connection I again measured 4.6 volts. I don’t know if my initial measurement of zero volts was the result of a bad connection with the sewing needle or not. I repeated all of the voltage tests described above and the results were identical. I did NOT turn the key to the off position, and restarted the engine. The low idle condition was still present, and the Black/Red voltage remained the same. I turned the bike off with the key, let it sit for about 30 seconds, and restarted it. It was idling at a normal 1,050 RPM, and there was no change in voltage at the Black/Red connection. I turned the bike off and came in the house to report these results.
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(02-02-2018, 05:48 PM)Dave_imp Wrote: Low idle/stall condition is back. Rode the bike to a restaurant tonite about 5 miles (mostly freeway) from home and it ran perfectly (stopped at 4 stop lights). I stayed off the freeway on the way home and stopped to get gas, when I discovered the slow idle condition was creeping back. I rode around my neighborhood only 3 more miles before the 700 RPM idle condition was back in full force. I immediately pulled into my garage and turned the bike off with the key so that I could remove the seat and connect my meter to the negative battery terminal. I performed the voltage tests at the TPS with the TPS connected, and the results were slightly different from the last time I performed them.
Bike off:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 volts (last time I measured was 4.8 volts)
Black/Red = 0.45 volts throttle closed, 4.6 volts full throttle
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
Bike running:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 - 4.8 volts (yes, it went up)
Black/Red = 0.5 volts bike idling, voltage increased with throttle opening
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
I started the bike and kept it in the garage, TPS connected, blipping the throttle, all while measuring the voltage at the Black/Red connection. The idle remained constant, at about 1,050 RPM initially, but the voltage at idle varied from .4 to .5 volts. After about a dozen blips of the throttle the 700 RPM idle returned, and after about another half dozen blips of the throttle the engine stalled. Each time the RPM dropped to 700 RPM it would slowly work its way back up to roughly 1,000 RPM. At no time during the 700 RPM idle and gradual increase to 1,000 RPM condition did I observe any difference in the measured voltage at the Black/Red connector, even when the engine stalled. After the engine stalled I immediately checked the voltage at the Black/Yellow connection. Initially I was getting zero volts, but after playing with the sewing needle connection I again measured 4.6 volts. I don’t know if my initial measurement of zero volts was the result of a bad connection with the sewing needle or not. I repeated all of the voltage tests described above and the results were identical. I did NOT turn the key to the off position, and restarted the engine. The low idle condition was still present, and the Black/Red voltage remained the same. I turned the bike off with the key, let it sit for about 30 seconds, and restarted it. It was idling at a normal 1,050 RPM, and there was no change in voltage at the Black/Red connection. I turned the bike off and came in the house to report these results.
Good work Dave ,did you get any of that on video and if not can you try to do that?
max
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(02-02-2018, 05:57 PM)max_imp Wrote: (02-02-2018, 05:48 PM)Dave_imp Wrote: Low idle/stall condition is back. Rode the bike to a restaurant tonite about 5 miles (mostly freeway) from home and it ran perfectly (stopped at 4 stop lights). I stayed off the freeway on the way home and stopped to get gas, when I discovered the slow idle condition was creeping back. I rode around my neighborhood only 3 more miles before the 700 RPM idle condition was back in full force. I immediately pulled into my garage and turned the bike off with the key so that I could remove the seat and connect my meter to the negative battery terminal. I performed the voltage tests at the TPS with the TPS connected, and the results were slightly different from the last time I performed them.
Bike off:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 volts (last time I measured was 4.8 volts)
Black/Red = 0.45 volts throttle closed, 4.6 volts full throttle
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
Bike running:
Black/Yellow = 4.6 - 4.8 volts (yes, it went up)
Black/Red = 0.5 volts bike idling, voltage increased with throttle opening
Black/Green = 0.0 volts
I started the bike and kept it in the garage, TPS connected, blipping the throttle, all while measuring the voltage at the Black/Red connection. The idle remained constant, at about 1,050 RPM initially, but the voltage at idle varied from .4 to .5 volts. After about a dozen blips of the throttle the 700 RPM idle returned, and after about another half dozen blips of the throttle the engine stalled. Each time the RPM dropped to 700 RPM it would slowly work its way back up to roughly 1,000 RPM. At no time during the 700 RPM idle and gradual increase to 1,000 RPM condition did I observe any difference in the measured voltage at the Black/Red connector, even when the engine stalled. After the engine stalled I immediately checked the voltage at the Black/Yellow connection. Initially I was getting zero volts, but after playing with the sewing needle connection I again measured 4.6 volts. I don’t know if my initial measurement of zero volts was the result of a bad connection with the sewing needle or not. I repeated all of the voltage tests described above and the results were identical. I did NOT turn the key to the off position, and restarted the engine. The low idle condition was still present, and the Black/Red voltage remained the same. I turned the bike off with the key, let it sit for about 30 seconds, and restarted it. It was idling at a normal 1,050 RPM, and there was no change in voltage at the Black/Red connection. I turned the bike off and came in the house to report these results.
Good work Dave ,did you get any of that on video and if not can you try to do that?
max
Good work Dave ,did you get any of that on video and if not can you try to do that?
max Hi Max, thanks. No, I did not video this. Unfortunately my USB ports on my computer are not working now, so I cannot upload anything (just another item on my "To Do" list to fix - if I can). Also, it may be a very, very slight difference, but I swear I can tell a difference in the way my bike runs when it is experiencing the low idle/stall condition. Not only does it not respond as well to blipping the throttle, but I believe it is making less power, which may be the result of an incorrect fuel mixture. Do you think this points to the IACV? Thanks again Max.
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