Headers

[Hedge_imp]

So I am researching headers and cannot get any concrete explanation for the difference in Machine bent headers vs Hand bent headers, besides the obvious price. What makes one better than the other? :-/

 

[the Ferret]

Hedge, I could be wrong, but I believe the smoother the bend the better the air flows. hand bent pipes use smoother radii to flow better. Whereas machine bent pipes use a more squared off bend, therefore less flow. At least that is what I have been told.

I could have that backwards according to this I found in google searching

Mandrel Bent Versus Crush Bent Piping

Another way to upgrade the exhaust piping from the catalytic converter back to the muffler is to have the exhaust piping mandrel (heat) bent instead of the conventional crush bending. As the name suggests, mandrel bends are achieved through the heating of the piping before bending whereas crush bent just literally mean that the piping is bent entirely by force. However, the main difference between mandrel bent and crush bent piping is the ease of flow. Mandrel piping keeps the pipe at a constant cross-sectional area throughout a bend which makes exhaust flow easier. On the other hand, crush bending deforms the pipe at the bend(s), which can restrict the exhaust flow. The disadvantage of mandrel bending is that it is relatively expensive, because of the costs involved in operating a mandrel bending heat machine.

I could find no reference on "hand bent" ..just Mandrel, crush and CNC

 

[Hedge_imp]

Hedge, I could be wrong, but I believe the smoother the bend the better the air flows. hand bent pipes use smoother radii to flow better. Whereas machine bent pipes use a more squared off bend, therefore less flow. At least that is what I have been told.

I could have that backwards according to this I found in google searching

Mandrel Bent Versus Crush Bent Piping

Another way to upgrade the exhaust piping from the catalytic converter back to the muffler is to have the exhaust piping mandrel (heat) bent instead of the conventional crush bending. As the name suggests, mandrel bends are achieved through the heating of the piping before bending whereas crush bent just literally mean that the piping is bent entirely by force. However, the main difference between mandrel bent and crush bent piping is the ease of flow. Mandrel piping keeps the pipe at a constant cross-sectional area throughout a bend which makes exhaust flow easier. On the other hand, crush bending deforms the pipe at the bend(s), which can restrict the exhaust flow. The disadvantage of mandrel bending is that it is relatively expensive, because of the costs involved in operating a mandrel bending heat machine.

I could find no reference on "hand bent" ..just Mandrel, crush and CNC

Funny - I fully read that before posting. I usually Google before I ask questions. Thanks for the reply. I will post the official word from Yoshimura as soon as they reply to my questions. I need to fully understand the difference between these pipes before I pull the trigger . . . Due Diligence!
http://japan.webike.net/ps/yoshimura/#!s...01&p.m=311

 

[the Ferret]

yea let us know.

The only thing I can think of is maybe mandrel bending means hand bending? and therefore it would have smoother bends, cost more and be better for performance.

At any rate looking forward to Mr. T's reply

 

[Hedge_imp]

yea let us know.

The only thing I can think of is maybe mandrel bending means hand bending? and therefore it would have smoother bends, cost more and be better for performance.

At any rate looking forward to Mr. T's reply

I emailed him yesterday morning - is he usually good about turnaround time on answers?

 

[Gumby 1100_imp]

Here is a good video from Yoshimura on how they hand bend the pipe using heat. You will note a plug in the end of the pipe which is to retain the sand in the pipe that is used as a "mandrel".

As to "machine bent" pipe...this can be done with and without a mandrel, but generally, for the purposes of headers, a mandrel is not used on typical tube benders. The complex bends would make it difficult to remove the mandrel.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Hedge,

Mr. T is very good at returning emails. Just remember the time difference.

 

[Hedge_imp]

Word Gumby! Thanks

 

[the Ferret]

Super cool video Gumby. That was neat. Thanks for posting. Explains a lot actually.

 

[Motogeezer1949_imp]

Mandrel and crush bent can both be done by machine. They can be sand or water too. IMO the difference in price referred to comes from premium flanges, ceramic coated stainless steel rather than painted steel. The machine bent set I just installed on sons bike has perfectly radiused curves. Have not seen a hand bent set.

 

[Hedge_imp]

FYI - this is what I sent to Yoshimura and below it is the answer.

Good afternoon - I am interested in buying your full exhaust for my new 2014 Honda CB 1100 Standard Black Edition that I just bought off the showroom yesterday. However, I am concerned with a lot of reports that if I buy the full system I will have to take off the center stand in order for it to work. That said, a friend of mine, who has a 2014 CB1100 Deluxe Edition just showed me a picture of his bike with the full exhaust installed and he has the bike on its factory center stand. Now I am really confused. So a couple of questions:
• Can I install (bolt right on) your full exhaust to my 2014 Standard Edition without loosing the center stand?
• Will I be able to freely access the oil filter so I can do oil changes without removing the exhaust?
• What is the difference between buying the Machine bent system and the hand bent system?
Thanks - John

Yosh Answer -
Hello John,
We actually have not had the Deluxe Edition in for fitment, but apparently, it uses the same full system since there are no slip ons for the Deluxe Edition. Either way, the full system comes with the bracket to allow retention of the centerstand. And I believe that it allows access to the oil filter as well.

The hand bent system was based off of the original Yoshimura Japan style exhaust, and it has been discontinued. We only have the machine bent exhaust system still available. The difference is the look of the header pipe.

I hope this helps you with your questions.

****Apparent are 2 things:
1. He didn't read my questions correctly because he immediately talks about the Deluxe Edition when I told him that it was a 2014 Standard.
2. He is not quite sure about anything here. Makes me uncomfortable that this guy is a Sales Rep for Yoshimura.

Lets wait and see what Mr. T has to say. I asked him the same questions!

 

[Motogeezer1949_imp]

Logically, if a bracket comes with, to retain the center stand and they haven't had a DLX to fit, what is left?
Let's assume the oil filter was too close a fit (which it isn't with the machine bent).
One would be able to run the flange nuts out close to the end of the studs. Then take the bolt holding the back end of the system out, but support it. Carefully slide the headers forward. Should be plenty of room.
Once filter exchanged, re tighten flanges and rear bolt.
That's advice from the pro mechanic who works on my bikes

 

[emptysea]

Is the center stand different on the 2014 std than it is on the 2013? If not, I can tell you that the full Yosh system allows the retention of the center stand. Also, I do not think there is any issue with the oil filter removal. There are at least 3 of us here running the machine bent system on our 2013s and, while I haven't had to change the oil since the install, I'm sure the others would have mentioned it if it was a problem and I haven't seen that posted.

I hesitated to chime in on this since your original question was about machine v. bent, but that seems moot at this stage.

 

[Hedge_imp]

So I got the correct info from Mr.T and now they seem to match.
Wetbike -
Thank you for using Webike Japan.
2 Yoshimura exhausts you mentioned will fit straight on to CB1100 standard model without removing the center stand.

You can unscrew the oil drain bolt, but will have to remove the exhaust to change the oil filter for both model.

Hand bent
YOSHIMURA : Hand-Bent Straight Cyclone RSC-VINTAGE [110-41A-4860]
1 stock left in webike

Machine Bent
YOSHIMURA : Machine Bent Straight Cyclone RSC-VINTAGE [110-41A-6660]
out of stock: delivery in 2 month upon order.

You will notice the narrow smooth carb of the exhaust pipe for hand bent, and rather sharper bent for machine bent.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Mr T -
Thank you very much for your inquiry.

Regards to your questions about,,

MORIWAKI Part Number 01810-401G1-00
Yoshimura Hand Bent Model:110-41A-4860
Yoshimura Machine Bent Model: 110-41A-6660

Yes, the center stand can be used for the 3 exhaust systems.
Yoshimura exhaust systems needs to be removed when access the oil filter. But, you can access the oil drain plug without removing the exhaust system.

Moriwaki exhaust can be accessed the oil drain plug and oil filter without removing the exhaust system.

There are no big difference between the Machine bent and Hand bent.
But, many people says the Hand bent ones are beautiful than than the Machine bent ones.

and, the Aluminum flanges are for the RSC-DRAG Exhaust only.

http://www.samurider.com/?p=12614/#itemImage

The 3 exhaust system uses black steel flanges.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you very much,

Takashi

So it looks like I will be researching the Moriwaki since removing the exhaust to get the oil filter out is a huge deal breaker for me. Any Moriwaki exhaust system riders here? Any sound clips?

 

[mjezek_imp]

I have the MotoGear Black Ti on order, which according to Mr. T, will not have a problem with the oil filter or drain plug. I did not ask about center stand, since I am not using it ( too much weight ... LOL )

 

[Hedge_imp]

I have the MotoGear Black Ti on order, which according to Mr. T, will not have a problem with the oil filter or drain plug. I did not ask about center stand, since I am not using it ( too much weight ... LOL )

Why did you go with that? is there a sound clip somewhere?

 

[mjezek_imp]

I have the MotoGear Black Ti on order, which according to Mr. T, will not have a problem with the oil filter or drain plug. I did not ask about center stand, since I am not using it ( too much weight ... LOL )

Why did you go with that? is there a sound clip somewhere?

Why did you go with that? is there a sound clip somewhere? Here is my logic for the header:
1. needs to be black
2. no catalytic converter
3. being able to change oil filter without removing the exhaust system
4. Titanium is much lighter than Stainless Steel, loosing 30-40lbs ( not only the exhaust ) is like gaining HP and Torque over the entire rev range ...

=> Yosh did not meet any of these criteria ( japanese yosh system has a cat !!! , US system does not have a cat )

Regarding muffler, i took the gamble and went with the motogear black ti slip on, without even seeing it, but worst case it will be for sale and i get a different slip on.

Sound is a result of the muffler and should be okay, since it is in the mid range of all the db listings on samurider.com

 

[Hedge_imp]

Just pulled the trigger with Mr T on the Ryujin Hand Bent full exhaust in Black. I believe that I am the first person in the US to get this exhaust for the CB1100 and as part of my deal with Mr T I have to fully review it for him and send him pictures and video of before and after.
After careful analysis of all full exhaust systems that work with the CB1100 I felt that this one would meets all my needs:[ul] [li]Black Full Exhaust[/li] [li]No Cat[/li] [li]Baffle can be removed[/li] [li]Center stand can be used[/li] [li]Oil drain plug and filter can be accessed
[/li][/ul] http://ryujin-japan.jp/service/campaign/cb1100_1.html

Shout out to Mr T - Thanks for taking the time to fully answer all of my questions and making me feel 100% comfortable with doing business with you!
Note to Forum members - Mr T and I traded about 10 emails to put together this order. He showed great respect, patience and Business professionalism fully answering me in detail all of my questions and concerns. There are a bunch of other goodies that will arrive with the exhaust system that I will review for all of you and Mr T as well.

 

[CB4ME_imp]

Just pulled the trigger with Mr T on the Ryujin Hand Bent full exhaust in Black. I believe that I am the first person in the US to get this exhaust for the CB1100 and as part of my deal with Mr T I have to fully review it for him and send him pictures and video of before and after.
After careful analysis of all full exhaust systems that work with the CB1100 I felt that this one would meets all my needs:[ul] [li]Black Full Exhaust[/li] [li]No Cat[/li] [li]Baffle can be removed[/li] [li]Center stand can be used[/li] [li]Oil drain plug and filter can be accessed
[/li][/ul] http://ryujin-japan.jp/service/campaign/cb1100_1.html

Shout out to Mr T - Thanks for taking the time to fully answer all of my questions and making me feel 100% comfortable with doing business with you!
Note to Forum members - Mr T and I traded about 10 emails to put together this order. He showed great respect, patience and Business professionalism fully answering me in detail all of my questions and concerns. There are a bunch of other goodies that will arrive with the exhaust system that I will review for all of you and Mr T as well.

That's awesome news!! :banana: I can't wait for your review. Takashi is the man.

I may have to sell my Motogear Ti/Staintune for this setup!! :excited:

 

[DGShannon_imp]

Just pulled the trigger with Mr T on the Ryujin Hand Bent full exhaust in Black. I believe that I am the first person in the US to get this exhaust for the CB1100 and as part of my deal with Mr T I have to fully review it for him and send him pictures and video of before and after.
After careful analysis of all full exhaust systems that work with the CB1100 I felt that this one would meets all my needs:[ul] [li]Black Full Exhaust[/li] [li]No Cat[/li] [li]Baffle can be removed[/li] [li]Center stand can be used[/li] [li]Oil drain plug and filter can be accessed
[/li][/ul] http://ryujin-japan.jp/service/campaign/cb1100_1.html

Shout out to Mr T - Thanks for taking the time to fully answer all of my questions and making me feel 100% comfortable with doing business with you!
Note to Forum members - Mr T and I traded about 10 emails to put together this order. He showed great respect, patience and Business professionalism fully answering me in detail all of my questions and concerns. There are a bunch of other goodies that will arrive with the exhaust system that I will review for all of you and Mr T as well.

Did your research show that the black one-piece Moriwaki and K-Factory units not meet these needs?