Ethanol vs. Your Engine

A good discussion point, although I have nothing to add. The harm, damage and risks of ethanol have long been explored; and as a non-engineer I have little to add to it.

I'm VERY fortunate in that I live in an area where several gas retailers have non-ethanol premium available for sale...they don't even share the common-nozzle that most modern gas pumps use. So, assuming it really is ethanol free...it's uncontaminated.

Costs fifty-cents a gallon more than contaminated regular - and worth every penny, IMHO.

It probably won't be going away, either. In my neck of the woods there's a lot of fishing (with outboards) and snowmobiling and four-wheeling. ORV trails go deep into National Forest land. AND...the government has a forest-fire staging point and hangar here, along with a lot of trail equipment.

The government needs ethanol-free gas so their equipment will run without issues. And outdoors sportsmen on boats, bikes and ORVs need ethanol-free gas - ethanol drinks water like a sponge; in cars it causes poor running. In outboards and small engines, it causes FAILURE.

Failure deep down trails, leads to expensive rescue details. Leads to panicked families and friends. Leads to investigations, which will eventually be forced to identify ETHANOL IN GASOLINE, a pet project among some politically-driven types, as a primary cause.

So...letting us in the outdoors have ethanol-free gasoline, will help alleviate the pressure to get it out of ALL gas.
 
Honda approves fuel contain Ethanol or Methanol for the CB1100. I don't use it in mine. If it was the choice of use it or a long walk, I'd use it.

Cheers
 
Pterodactyl_imp said:
Honda approves fuel contain Ethanol or Methanol for the CB1100. I don't use it in mine. If it was the choice of use it or a long walk, I'd use it.

Cheers
Click to expand...
True enough...about the long walk.

As for Honda approving it...I have no idea what's gone on in Oz, or the details of what Honda is up against...but I know that here in the Big PX, initially, ten years ago, when booze was mandated in gasoline...

...initially the better-rep carmakers, Toyota at the fore, were yelling murder. Said it would damage their fuel and emissions equipment (and they weren't wrong). Warned that resultant damage (rust, from absorbed water, and pitting in the micron-thin surfaces in the FI system) might not be covered under warranty.

Our beneficient government took them to the woodshed; and even staged a few "runaway Toyota" false-events to put the fear of God into them.

It worked. They got their heads right; and now they smile and nod and say that Gasohol is pretty-good-fine.

SIDE NOTE: Touring with my BMW R1200GS, some years back...I noticed that my fuel mileage would drop DRASTICALLY when I had to use ethanol gasoline - and it would take about three tanks of non-corrupted gas to reverse it.

MY GUESS was that the ethanol screwed up the feedback-loop fuel injection system, and either put it in a default limp-in mode or just enriched it...since ethanol has significantly-less power (less BTUs) than straight gas. So, that rotgut fuel was doing something, and that something wasn't very good.

So much for saving gasoline with ethanol.
 
Let's see... Replace 10% gasoline with 10% ethanol, and then you'll see at least a 10% reduction in gas mileage... :huh: saving gas that way makes perfect sense to government regulators....
 
Looks like there are lot of myths about ethanol afloat. :rolleyes:

However, there is a little bit less energy in E10, as ethanol has about 2/3 of energy of gas. But then, it's only 10 % oberall and btw. at least here in Europe gas contained already about 5% ethanol for the last 40 years or so for some reason.

So it ends up in 1/3 of 5% less energy in E10, compared to E5 (or regular), which is less than 2% per gallon.
 
I don't worry about ethanol in my bike. It's all you can get around here and the manual says it's ok to use up to 10%. Not having any issues with it and just not going to worry about it.

Rather worry about people changing lanes on me, pulling out in front of me, or tailgating me.
 
Django_imp said:
Looks like there are lot of myths about ethanol afloat. :rolleyes:

However, there is a little bit less energy in E10, as ethanol has about 2/3 of energy of gas. But then, it's only 10 % oberall and btw. at least here in Europe gas contained already about 5% ethanol for the last 40 years or so for some reason.

So it ends up in 1/3 of 5% less energy in E10, compared to E5 (or regular), which is less than 2% per gallon.
Click to expand...
But somehow the net loss of MPG in real world use is 10%.
 
Hm, I used E10 many times the last four years, about 60.000 km on my BMW. Haven't noticed a difference in mpg at all.

I've more concerns about usage of agriculture for fuel instead of for food production.
 
Django_imp said:
Hm, I used E10 many times the last four years, about 60.000 km on my BMW. Haven't noticed a difference in mpg at all.

I've more concerns about usage of agriculture for fuel instead of for food production.
Click to expand...
^^^^^ Good point. But we are straying away from the technical (motorcycling) aspects of the present reality and getting into the business/ political area. Anyone want ten thousand words from me on coal seam gas extraction in prime agricultural land? I don't think so. :)

Cheers
 
ClassicVW_imp said:
Django_imp said:
Looks like there are lot of myths about ethanol afloat. :rolleyes:

However, there is a little bit less energy in E10, as ethanol has about 2/3 of energy of gas. But then, it's only 10 % oberall and btw. at least here in Europe gas contained already about 5% ethanol for the last 40 years or so for some reason.

So it ends up in 1/3 of 5% less energy in E10, compared to E5 (or regular), which is less than 2% per gallon.
Click to expand...
But somehow the net loss of MPG in real world use is 10%.
Click to expand...
But somehow the net loss of MPG in real world use is 10%.
The problem is most folks are failures at basic math so their results are suspect.
 
Gentlemen,

I'm a Chevron dealer and one of the largest independent retailers of E-85 Ethanol in Arizona. One of my stations is very close to the Phoenix International Airport and cabs that service the airport are required by law to use E-85 in their cabs. The cab drivers hate it as it's usually about 20% cheaper than gas and it gets 30% fewer MPG. E-85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline. All gasolines sold in AZ are E-10 (10% Ethanol). Properly tuned cars and motorcycles can expect 3% poorer fuel mileage when using E-10 than when using straight gasoline. Flex fuel vehicles that can run on E-85 can expect 30% poorer mileage. Ethanol gas pumps and tank equipment is a lot more expensive than regular gas pumps because everything must be made out of stainless steel. Water sensors don't work in E-85 tanks because the water mixes with the fuel. Most, but not all water still sits on the bottom of our E-10 tanks. Producing 1 gallon of low energy ethanol requires nearly 1000 gallons of water, a lot of nitrogen fertilizer, and over half a gallon of high energy diesel. I make a living selling this boondoggle swill but virtually no Ethanol would be sold without forcing people to buy it with coercive laws. It is what it is, a shameful waste. But my CB1100 still hauls as*!!!

Chip
 
Chip:

Thanks for telling it like it is. I've followed this since it was passed into law...actually, since 1970s Gasohol died a very-deserved death in the market. Ethanol is like various other "Alternative Energy" boondoggles brought us by NON-scientist NON-engineers - which waste energy, do not save it, and cost consumers a LOT in the end.

I despair of telling others of this because I'm immediately attacked with political accusations - you know what they are, no need to repeat them. But the bottom line for riders is: Ethanol is costly; it has the potential to do harm in engines not meticulously set up for them. It offers LESS energy, not more. The bad side effects are more prevalent and likely in marine engines than in car engines; and in small engines, cycles, lawn mowers, generators, than in massive V8s.

To me it's worth a ten-mile ride to get booze-free gasoline - at fifty-cents-a-gallon more
 
Let's not forget that E-10 gasoline has a maximum shelf life of 3 months. Then the dreaded phase separation starts to set in. So you guys who live up here in the northern climes and have to store your bikes for long stretches in the winter should avoid the stuff like the plague.

Myself, I could give a rat's tail if people think my opinion veers into the political when talking about this stuff. Ethanol mandates exist because of certain political ideologies -- but are we not allowed to analyze or criticize the political genesis of this boondoggle?

My favorite part about the whole thing is that this product, which is supposed to be 'good for the environment' has been proven by numerous studies to actually consume more energy and resources in it's production than conventional gasoline, and cause greater overall emissions to boot!

We must criticize things like this -- either that or continue to have more 'green' madness unquestioningly shoved down our throats regardless of merit or lack thereof...

Have you heard the latest from EPA? Where they are now considering regulating emissions from BBQs? And considering regulating how long you can take a shower in motels? Now there's a bureaucracy that has veered out of control.
Where will it end? Why not fine people for farting too much? It is a methane (greenhouse gas) emission after all. Maybe they will start attaching tail pipe sniffers to our personal tail pipes...

Okay, I'd better check out before this starts to sound like a rant! :celebrate:

Oh, and I should add that where I live we are fortunate in that we can get not only pure premium gas (91 octane) but also regular grade (87 octane) pure gas.
 
AFAIK, I can't get non ethanol gas here in NJ. Unless I have boat. So, the winter storage fuel stabilizers are very important. But don't forget, the stabilizer is only good for 1 year from the time you break the seal on the bottle, so throw out any unused product that's still in the bottle after you use it for one winter.
 
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