Clutch replacement advice

[PowerDubs_imp]

In terms of excessive clutch "grab", I have experienced that, but not due to clutch plate wear, but because of an overheated clutch/hydraulic system - due to engine overheating. The Honda engine was air-cooled and just wasn't getting what it needed on a still-air, profuse humid summer evening in Toronto during a Caribbean Carnival. Once the engine had a chance to cool down (~30 minutes), the clutch resumed normal behaviour.

To be honest, in this particular case the "early warning" was quick - in terms of minutes.

That’s because what you were experiencing wasn’t a wear issue.

Clutch fluid is hygroscopic just like brake fluid. Boil that water and things get mushy.


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[GoldOxide_imp]

In terms of excessive clutch "grab", I have experienced that, but not due to clutch plate wear, but because of an overheated clutch/hydraulic system - due to engine overheating. The Honda engine was air-cooled and just wasn't getting what it needed on a still-air, profuse humid summer evening in Toronto during a Caribbean Carnival. Once the engine had a chance to cool down (~30 minutes), the clutch resumed normal behaviour.

To be honest, in this particular case the "early warning" was quick - in terms of minutes.

That’s because what you were experiencing wasn’t a wear issue.

Clutch fluid is hygroscopic just like brake fluid. Boil that water and things get mushy.


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That’s because what you were experiencing wasn’t a wear issue.

Clutch fluid is hygroscopic just like brake fluid. Boil that water and things get mushy.
That is correct.

 

[Cormanus]

Like any other clutch- it slips a bit on high load / hard accel. But unlike a car that has 1 friction disk in a dry hot environment- the is a stack of numerous layers of disks lubricated by the engine oil.


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Mine has started to grab a bit. When I put the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, I can feel it wanting to creep forward. When the engine is hot, it is much harder to get the bike to go into neutral.

Your basket fingers could be worn. I don’t envision you to be hard on the clutch so doubt the metal disks are overheated and warped.


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Your basket fingers could be worn. I don’t envision you to be hard on the clutch so doubt the metal disks are overheated and warped.
Thank you, Dubs. I wish I knew what that meant. Does it need a visit to the mechanic?

 

[j3gq_imp]

Without any tech knowledge, you can save a lot of money, Corm.
First figure out what is really going on, test, repeat, take notes.

Engine cold, what exactly happens. Write it down.
How was it different 20,000 miles ago. Write that down too.
Engine hot, what happens.
Repeat after clutch fluid change.
Check sprocket, and chain too - yes, you can, it’s even in the UM.

Next line of tests, roll at about 30 mph in 4th, accelerate hard, ...
next at 30 mph in third, ...
next at 30 mph in 2nd, ...

Report the results to us. Pay your mechanic later, and save the money for helpless troubleshooting for which he has no patience.

 

[Cormanus]

Thanks j3gq.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Like any other clutch- it slips a bit on high load / hard accel. But unlike a car that has 1 friction disk in a dry hot environment- the is a stack of numerous layers of disks lubricated by the engine oil.


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Mine has started to grab a bit. When I put the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, I can feel it wanting to creep forward. When the engine is hot, it is much harder to get the bike to go into neutral.

Your basket fingers could be worn. I don’t envision you to be hard on the clutch so doubt the metal disks are overheated and warped.


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Your basket fingers could be worn. I don’t envision you to be hard on the clutch so doubt the metal disks are overheated and warped.
Thank you, Dubs. I wish I knew what that meant. Does it need a visit to the mechanic?

The clutch plates are circle shaped with tabs that stick out-

They are an alternating stack of metal and fiber friction plates clamped down with springs.

When you pull in your clutch- the plates separate from each other allowing the bike to slip the engine friction. When you release the clutch- the springs reclamp the disks back together and friction locks them and away you go.


The tabs on the clutch disks sit inside the clutch basket. The basket has fingers that line up the tabs on the clutch plates-

When the disks spread or clamp- they are spinning with the engine- so the tabs ride back and forth against the clutch basket fingers.

Every time you get on or off the gas- the plates move a little forward or backward wiggle inside the clutch basket and make a small impact. Eventually that impact starts to wear the fingers and creates notches.

Those notches make it difficult for the plates to move back and forth across the fingers when clamping / unclamping.

That leads to plates not fully separating so the clutch drags, finding neutral is more difficult, etc.


Tons of websites on it-

Basic- Clutch Inspection - Pro Secrets


More advanced- How To Properly Inspect A Clutch

 

[mattmcuomo1_imp]

Quote:Mine does that too ..... I've got over 104,000 miles on it. Yes, original clutch.

That’s good miles. How many times have you changed the clutch fluid and bled the slave cylinder?


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That’s good miles. How many times have you changed the clutch fluid and bled the slave cylinder?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I've changed fluid 3 times. It's about time to do it again.

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[max]

Thanks j3gq.

As a second option you could do a test to see if the clutch travel is sufficient ( normal ) by standing still sitting on the bike with the engine running in gear and checking the " free play " of the clutch lever.
Mine has a 20mm travel from fully pulled in to starting to slightly engaging the engine;



Here is what it looks like when it starts to engage the engine 20 mm out from the full pull, during those 20 mm there is no engagement with the engine, nothing happens until the 20mm point has been reached and the clutch starts to engage according to the lever pull.

If your lever has less or no clearance the chances are that there is air in the clutch system which takes up lever travel until the air compresses and the slave piston starts exerting pressure to dis-engage the clutch plates sufficiently.
remember that part of the clutch system lines are higher than the bleed nipples and can hold trapped air in those parts of the line.
To get rid of this air you have to flush the lines quickly, quicker than the air can flow back to the high places and remain trapped while clear fluid seems to indicate all is fine this will probably need a vacuum approach to move the fluid/air quickly through the lines.

So when the oil filler plug is removed and you feel the moving ( inside ) part of the clutch plates you should instantly feel them move out when the lever is pulled.

Hope this helps to narrow down what the getting back into neutral issue is Cormanus.

 

[Cormanus]

Thank you Dubs, Max, j3gq. I will attend to testing this when I get a chance and report back.

 

[Cormanus]

I did a quick test in the garage this morning with the engine cold and still revving a little high. The clutch travelled around 20mm before starting to engage. When I've a chance to get out an get the engine really hot, I'll test it again.

 

[max]

Nice, no air in the system Cormanus and the hot test is a good idea too, oh, and did the bike want to creep forward? mine did not, thanks for the feedback.

Don't have this problem but getting in neutral whilst still slowing down before a stop makes it much easier.

Are you using the same engine oil as before this started?

 

[Cormanus]

No, Max, the bike did not want to creep until the clutch started engaging. The difficulty getting the hot bike into neutral at stop has been going on for a number of oil changes.