Any interest in cams?
- Thread starter PowerDubs_imp
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PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
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I do enjoy, and get a satisfaction out of doing things nobody else has done.
The motorcycle shop has been around for decades and amusingly he was more excited than me.
The place is filled with sport bikes, hardcore track bikes, many making much more power than me bone stock- but he was very impressed, 'I gotta get a picture of this thing' and kept telling me things like "Most guys bring in bikes that they just make worse, not better- and every time you bring this back you improve it".
Having him say good things to me made me feel better than the #'s did.
My goal with the bike is to improve on everything that the UJM has to offer without taking away anything. Better suspension, seat, power, handlebar, safety, comfort, looks- with no compromise. (other than time and money I suppose- but again nothing else exists that gives me the total package)
I might go check out a new CB1000R when they show up.
The motorcycle shop has been around for decades and amusingly he was more excited than me.
The place is filled with sport bikes, hardcore track bikes, many making much more power than me bone stock- but he was very impressed, 'I gotta get a picture of this thing' and kept telling me things like "Most guys bring in bikes that they just make worse, not better- and every time you bring this back you improve it".
Having him say good things to me made me feel better than the #'s did.
My goal with the bike is to improve on everything that the UJM has to offer without taking away anything. Better suspension, seat, power, handlebar, safety, comfort, looks- with no compromise. (other than time and money I suppose- but again nothing else exists that gives me the total package)
I might go check out a new CB1000R when they show up.
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
That’s not gain from cams, that is the total where I am at now from stock w/ staintune.
At this point cams haven’t done much.
And at this point any gains (other than going be to Guhl for a real tune, fuel AND ign) will get much harder and much more work and expense.
There is more in the engine- but do I give up low end to get there? Probably not for me. Somebody else can chase that. I will continue to fine tune without loosing the character the bike has.
But yea- I’m not done and there is still more in it.
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At this point cams haven’t done much.
And at this point any gains (other than going be to Guhl for a real tune, fuel AND ign) will get much harder and much more work and expense.
There is more in the engine- but do I give up low end to get there? Probably not for me. Somebody else can chase that. I will continue to fine tune without loosing the character the bike has.
But yea- I’m not done and there is still more in it.
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Banned_imp
Been there
When you say "At this point cams haven’t done much", what do you mean and why haven't they helped? Disregard if it's a stupid question.PowerDubs_imp said:
max
Road warrior
Well that's a nice milestone, i was just thinking rather than putting a hundred dollars in the slot every time you need to check for a result is it possible to have a timed run let say up a hill with wide open throttle and after several times you get an average baseline to compare against future improvements?
nice one Josh!
nice one Josh!
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Banned_imp said:
They helped, but only a few hp and lb/ft at this point.
An engine is a series of parts that all can limit or influence airflow. At any point in time there can be a bottle neck anywhere in the system.
Move one chess piece and the target moves.
Easy enough to just go crazy and increase the size of everything. But make something too big and you loose power / tq, especially down low. Everything has a balance point, or design objective
I could easily get more peak hp if I wanted to ruin the low end fantastic ride-ability the bike has. My dyno guy was amazed when I told him I could ride around all day at 1800-2k. Many other bikes don’t like to run under 4-5k.
So I am approaching this completely differently than ‘race bike’. And that comes with more difficulty and compromise.
max_imp said:
Problem with that is- I can’t see what rpm changes are effected, can’t account for weather temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc.
In other words, modern technology allows a much greater level of data acquisition and adjustment that old school ‘street tuning’ would likely do much more harm than good.
I need to throw more fuel at it, and I need to get out to Guhl for a real tune.
But before I do that, I might try to improve airflow a smidge more first.
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PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Before cams was 3 runs at 97hp, and a best run at 98.2hp- all 71lb/ft
With cams is just over 100hp and 72lb/ft
So for as tame as the stock cams are in spec on paper, there is either something else more restrictive or it's time to advance the ign timing from stock.
Doesn't the bike have some sort of neutered timing in 1-3 gears? I think I remember hearing that somewhere.
We do all the runs in 3rd because 4th smacks the speed limiter.
With cams is just over 100hp and 72lb/ft
So for as tame as the stock cams are in spec on paper, there is either something else more restrictive or it's time to advance the ign timing from stock.
Doesn't the bike have some sort of neutered timing in 1-3 gears? I think I remember hearing that somewhere.
We do all the runs in 3rd because 4th smacks the speed limiter.
dsan1964_imp
Been there
I just purchased a used 2014 ECU. Sending it Guhl’s to re flash so I will have a stock unit also!
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PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Does anyone know what year Don used as his baseline? I'm going to guess 2013, and I know Honda made changes to the 2014 software- it is mentioned on their tech page when discussing the 6-speed.
I plan on calling Don and hopefully he is receptive to me riding my bike out to his shop for a real time tune on my bike.
I plan on calling Don and hopefully he is receptive to me riding my bike out to his shop for a real time tune on my bike.
I’m pretty sure the first member here to get Guhl to do a reflash was CIP57. I think he had a 2013. Ferret may remember.
Search Guhl for username CIP57 and see what you find.
Search Guhl for username CIP57 and see what you find.
jimgl3_imp
Been there
i think pretty much all bikes retard lower gear timing. there may be a tre out there that will work on the cb. i don't know. there are butt loads of them for suzuki's
the Ferret
Road warrior
It was either Cip or MotoGeezer but it was definitely a 13. I actually don't recall anyone doing it to a 14. maybe Ridem?Cormanus_imp said:
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
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See this thread http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2911. CIP’s was a 13; Ridem’s a 14.
peterbaron
Road warrior
Josh,
Congratulations :clap::clap:
When modifying engines, no one really knows about its final result, especially now, when manufactures have all the tools and resources to do, however they are obligated to follow regulations (eg. emissions and other rules), and bikes to last long.. A few HP is better than nothing = 100 HP broken, be proud of what you have achieved.
....and remember what you said in one of your posts:
"...Grew up on 1970's into early 80's 2-stoke dirtbikes. At that time the only real source of info was magazines- which wrote articles about stuff like DG or FMF pipes, rejetting carbs, suspension stuff... so I fell into the rabbit hole of 'I can make it better'...
Once you realize just about anything can be made better- at least me for, I like to do so...."
Keep your dreams alive = move you forward regardless of age, times and difficulties !!!!
:beerchug:
Congratulations :clap::clap:
When modifying engines, no one really knows about its final result, especially now, when manufactures have all the tools and resources to do, however they are obligated to follow regulations (eg. emissions and other rules), and bikes to last long.. A few HP is better than nothing = 100 HP broken, be proud of what you have achieved.
....and remember what you said in one of your posts:
"...Grew up on 1970's into early 80's 2-stoke dirtbikes. At that time the only real source of info was magazines- which wrote articles about stuff like DG or FMF pipes, rejetting carbs, suspension stuff... so I fell into the rabbit hole of 'I can make it better'...
Once you realize just about anything can be made better- at least me for, I like to do so...."
Keep your dreams alive = move you forward regardless of age, times and difficulties !!!!
:beerchug:PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Just got off the phone with Don Guhl. He pretty much said just put the standard tune in it- so I will be pulling the ECU and mailing it out to him.
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Was just comparing several pre and post cam fuel trim tables - with pretty much same target tables.
The WBO2 piggyback is pulling fuel in a lot of spots. Which means the sensor is seeing more fuel.
Given that I know lift and duration is are increased, my thought is since I am on stock ign timing, the fuel isn’t being burned before escaping the more open valves, and the system is leaning mixture.
Just yanked the ecu and mailing it out to have ign, rev, and speed limits removed.
Burn fuel sooner, more force on piston, leaner reading on exhaust sensor, more fuel added to compensate and therefore burned, win!
This story isn’t over yet.
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The WBO2 piggyback is pulling fuel in a lot of spots. Which means the sensor is seeing more fuel.
Given that I know lift and duration is are increased, my thought is since I am on stock ign timing, the fuel isn’t being burned before escaping the more open valves, and the system is leaning mixture.
Just yanked the ecu and mailing it out to have ign, rev, and speed limits removed.
Burn fuel sooner, more force on piston, leaner reading on exhaust sensor, more fuel added to compensate and therefore burned, win!
This story isn’t over yet.
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PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
I’m no wizard. If I had any actual knowledge or training I’d be dangerous.
I’m just a guy in a garage with a combination of no fear and much beer.
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I’m just a guy in a garage with a combination of no fear and much beer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
