Any interest in cams?

[PowerDubs_imp]

Being anal I’m checking valve clearance before ripping the stock cams out.

Just started. Cyl 1 intake .15 go, .18 nogo.

Cyl 3 intake right valve good at .15, cyl 3 left valve is allowing .18 to slide in. Going to have to adjust that.




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Cyl 2 & 4 exhaust all four seem to be .26


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Cyl 4 intake left valve letting .18 slide in


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[riggies_imp]

Yes can’t wait

 

[max]

Josh could you have a look at the size of the shims and what range if possible.
We have to order some at some stage and it would be handy if we knew they are all in the let say 0.25 to 0.32 mm range so we would have some at hand and the bike can be put together the same day.

Thanks and reading/looking with interest; max

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Hi Max,

Yea- that is the next step. Just about to remove the stock cams.

I bought a set of shims from Hotcams.

I am sure that most of the kit is sizes I will not need, I am just hoping that the ones I need I will have enough for by swapping around. The kit comes with three of each size.

I am anal enough that I have gone over and measured three times now.

The first time I was just checking clearances for fun, but then I decided to start from scratch and scribble everything down.

Problem is even from trying to be exact in lining up the timing marks, there is variance there as well as how my pressure is in pushing the gauges and so not quite an exact science but this is what I came up with after the last two rounds –

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Dammit- ran into a delay.

In prepping for this I took a quick glance at a few threads. Saw a mention of using a screwdriver on the tensioner instead of the special tool.

No way to fit a screw driver in the small space between the airbox.

Just went back and looked at the pic on that thread- it’s not a CB1100 pictured.

Ugh.


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[PowerDubs_imp]

Made a ‘tool’ out of scrap. Now back to work.

Cam caps- the reason why god invented a 1lb deadblow!

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Stock cams out. Yea- from what I can see the exhaust cam can swap into the intake spot for even timing of someone wanted to do that.

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[PowerDubs_imp]

That’s enough for today- time to spend some time with my wife.

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[PowerDubs_imp]

Josh could you have a look at the size of the shims and what range if possible.
We have to order some at some stage and it would be handy if we knew they are all in the let say 0.25 to 0.32 mm range so we would have some at hand and the bike can be put together the same day.

Thanks and reading/looking with interest; max

Hi Max,

Here is my two time measurements of stock valve clearances before disassembly and the factory shims for each-

And the kit I bought-

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Forgot to say those are the stamped sizes of the stock shims, I have not yet broke out the micrometer to measure for possible wear.


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Also just noticed the manual says the factory shams are available in .025 mm, and this kit is intervals of .05 mm. So although they will fit it is not ideal.


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[max]

Thanks Josh, that is a very complete explanation of what's going on under the hood ( buckets ).
Took some time to take in all the information you have so carefully provided and prepares us for what to expect once the cams are out, the plan was to order shims in advance as you may have gathered.

Actually would be interesting to see if the shims themselves are worn but i would expect that the wear takes place on the actual cam and bucket surface since those are the bits that end up shiny and polished if all goes well and the oil does it's all important work .

Yes, i did notice the measurements that you took with regard to the shim sizes and wondered if they can step them up by one thousand's of a millimeter to get it right in the middle of the tolerance even after the gear is run in after some time, that is an interesting detail, also makes me wonder what system they have to determine the required shim for each valve and how to measure all those gaps, i hope they have a happy robot to do that ''koni-chi wa" .

Guess it's not so bad in practice since 0.005 mm steps you from one end of the range to the other and is within the 0.006 spec. and you should be good for 100.000 k or so all things beiing equal.

Only started to get an idea about how to work with camshafts when you started this thread, it gave me much more insight of what's important and made me think about it all and i thank you for that; max

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Factory shims are .025mm

The hotcam kit is .05mm

By swapping around what I’ve got, I can stay in spec, although not to my ideal.

I’d like to error on slightly looser instead of slightly tighter, but no biggie. I’ll rip her back down eventually and do another check.



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[PowerDubs_imp]

I am happy to report that the cams are properly timed and bolted in, and I have turn the engine over by hand several times and nothing appears to make any contact anywhere or feel like it’s binding.

I am about to do the valve clearance check again just to be thorough.


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[jimgl3_imp]

and the tension builds!

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Ugh. Looks like I am starting over-

Checked step #1, .15 +/- on two of the intake cyls.

Measured last night on the stock cams, adjusted shims to bring in closer to spec.

Just checked on the new cams- .20 slides right in.

Might be manufacture differences, might be reduced base circle.

Time to do all the measurements and adjustments over again.


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[max]

Did you swap buckets?

Found it a bit confusing with the markings on the sprockets, same are used for in and exhaust, they do line up ok as long as you use the correct markings, the "outside ones" i think line up in line with the cyl head top and form a straight line.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Buckets all stayed in each original spot.

They must have ground the base circle on the cams. Easier way to get more lift with less welding.

I just need to remeasure everything, take the cams back out, reshim, reinstall, remeasure....

I should have asked them ahead of time, my own fault.


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[PowerDubs_imp]

For anyone watching, please don’t take my measurements as gospel. I will readily admit that I don’t adjust valves very often, and certainly not recently.

The last time I adjusted valves was on a quad that I put in an aftermarket cam, but it was a retail premade cam that they had already done all the testing on to a sure that it was safe. All I had to do was drop it in and adjust to factory spec.

This is a whole new ball of wax as no one has ever done this before on this engine.

I am doing this numerous times over and over again trying to make sure that I am accurate and safe, and that might be biting me in the ass – because I may be putting too much pressure on the feeler gauge.

After doing this numerous times in the last few days I have discovered you can fit quite a range of feeler gauge in unless you have the exact idea of what the proper drag should be.

That being said, it is my understanding that valves slightly loose will be safe, if only slightly more noisy.

Valves that are too tight could possibly make a bit more high-end horse power, but may also never close fully, may burn up, and never dissipate the heat to the valve seat.

It is also my understanding that most engines will tighten up the valves as the miles pass- so it appears my best interest is to set them slightly looser if I can, which will not only be more safe, but cooler, and longer intervals.

Regardless – I will let you know as I progress. I never claimed to be an expert on any of this, just a little more adventurous than most I suppose.


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[KiowaEagle_imp]

Certainly much more adventurous than me, I wouldn’t think of attempting anything like this and can fairly confidently say I never will. But I’m enjoying reading about it and learning a lot so thanks for sharing.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Certainly much more adventurous than me, I wouldn’t think of attempting anything like this and can fairly confidently say I never will. But I’m enjoying reading about it and learning a lot so thanks for sharing.

Same here !

 

[max]

Josh how would you verify for yourselves if the cams are what you ordered, i mean; roundness, eccentricity, and all the other variables, v blocks or so?

Thanks for confirming the buckets were well looked after and also interesting to see what the measurements are after the new cams have run in after some time.

Don't think you are the only one with some problems, electronics and radio is an ongoing journey in finding faults and needs some very expensive equipment to find a problem with a 2$ part, sometimes seems not worth it and this is when you are lucky to have friends with the right test gear to overcome these problems but mostly it's just experience and knowing where to look, tricks help too!

max

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Most of this is my being the first.

I should not have spent any time or effort measuring the stock cams.

Also having never adjusted valves on this engine before I should not have bought tapered gauges- I should have bought angled gauges.

Now that I have measured numerous times I am intentionally bending the feelers so I don’t rub the head or have drag from flex.

If everything works out OK, people will be able to buy these cams and do a single measure and adjust and be back on the road (after adjusting fueling)...

So far so good as far as anything critical.


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Josh how would you verify for yourselves if the cams are what you ordered, i mean; roundness, eccentricity, and all the other variables, v blocks or so?

Thanks for confirming the buckets were well looked after and also interesting to see what the measurements are after the new cams have run in after some time.

Don't think you are the only one with some problems, electronics and radio is an ongoing journey in finding faults and needs some very expensive equipment to find a problem with a 2$ part, sometimes seems not worth it and this is when you are lucky to have friends with the right test gear to overcome these problems but mostly it's just experience and knowing where to look, tricks help too!

max

Basically I am putting trust into a cam company that has decades of experience. Told them what the engine is, they measured the stock cams and told me what they could do.




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[DBM_imp]

Ive been riding 45 years now and have owned at least 30 bikes from motocross to street. I have always been happy with a properly tuned stocker. Love to read about you horse power junkies with too much time and money on your hands.