Clutch Lever Full Engagement

[jtopiso_imp]

I use the clutch with two fingers, same as the brake. I don't need much lever travel to get full disengagement of the clutch.

[odelegacy_imp]

Hey Max, I’ll measure that up tomorrow. Thanks for checking that out for me.

Jtopiso- yeah, I definitely think I need to tweak something. I shouldn’t have any issues using the clutch with two fingers.

[STLTHMSTA_imp]

I've been tryin to get MY clutch to work better. The shifts are a little rough only sometimes but I know it isn't right. I've bled and bled to no avail. The lever feels ok when stationary and not much different when moving. If I pull the lever slowly it's better, more quickly it's not so good. That tells me there might be air trapped somewhere but there is only so many places it can hide. It has been somewhat like this since I purchased in 2017 but ridable. Are the any recalls on this or known fixes (alteration/mods) that work.
Any help is appreciated. TM

[STLTHMSTA_imp]

I have done that and will check back later, no time this morning to look. Another 'trick" I learned from a Honda mechanic and shop owner is to wiggle the lever, reservoir open, and watch the bubbles come up from the piston. Don't pull it all the way in, just wiggle. That has worked many many times but this one is stubborn. On the center stand the clutch is clearly dragging. Yes, I changes the oil too. I have never had one give me so much trouble before. Must be hidden traps in the there or my luck has run out. LOL.
Thanks for the reply. TM

[max]

I have done that and will check back later, no time this morning to look. Another 'trick" I learned from a Honda mechanic and shop owner is to wiggle the lever, reservoir open, and watch the bubbles come up from the piston. Don't pull it all the way in, just wiggle. That has worked many many times but this one is stubborn. On the center stand the clutch is clearly dragging. Yes, I changes the oil too. I have never had one give me so much trouble before. Must be hidden traps in the there or my luck has run out. LOL.
Thanks for the reply. TM

That method works fine with a system like the front brake where the air can rise to the top of the system and escape.

The clutch fluid line on our bikes however has a high point under the fuel tank in which the air can rise and is then trapped in that spot.

By changing the fluid in the normal way the air follows the fluid towards the slave cylinder but can keep rising between strokes and collect in the same area.

To clear the air out you will have to move the fluid faster than the air can rise to the top of the system, by either using a vacuum bleeder or a syringe with enough capacity to collect all the fluid from the reservoir and motivate the air out of the system.

Once the air is removed you can do a regular slow change with the lever only, hope this helps.

[STLTHMSTA_imp]

Thanks for that bit of info. I was suspicious of such a thing but didn't think the line was bend in such a way. The tie wrap method didn't work. I have been using a vacuum bleeder as I have on all my bikes and cars.
This one really takes the cake. I even took the slave cylinder off and turned the bleed valve to 12 o'clock thinking the slight tilt might be doing it. Nope. I will pull the tank tomorrow and get to searching. I may even look to find a fluid PUMP that'll push from the bleed valve up but will have to watch the master cylinder to keep the mess to a minimum. I'll report back, thanks. If this works I may fall in love with this bike again. TM

[pekingduck]

Bleeding the clutch is not exactly like bleeding brakes. When you pull the clutch lever in, it goes to the bar, so a much larger amount of fluid is pushed to expand the slave cylinder, and stubborn air bubbles can be trapped inside the expanded slave cylinder.

I have bled clutch systems by taking the slave cylinder off, but still connected, as you did, and using a small portable drill press vise, prevented the piston from expanding outward, and bleeding it with the same resistance you would feel in the brakes.

If you don't have a small vise, a heavy C-clamp should also work. With the clutch cylinder restrained, you should also bleed both upper and lower banjo bolts, as air gets trapped there also.

Max is correct in saying there are high points under the tank, but the line is one piece from the master to the slave cylinder. You can move a large amount of fluid by back-bleeding the system. With the clutch cylinder off and the piston all the way in, pull the clutch lever in once only, then manually push the piston back in. That should be enough to push most of the fluid in the line u back into the reservoir.

Make sure you have the master cylinder covered, and the level is low fluid before back-bleeding. Also a good idea to cover the gas tank whenever the brake or clutch master cylinders are accessed. If you get brake fluid on any painted surface, seal up master cylinder and flush the area with water to dilute it.

[max]

Some very good advice there PD, since the old fluid is usually darker in the clutch system i also tend to expel the old stuff by c clamping and compressing the slave piston ( which has a spring ( 11 ) behind it to take up any slack ) all the way in and replace the fluid in the line first before releasing the piston slowly thereby filling the slave cylinder with fresh fluid.
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/a/hon...rear-cover
Also provides for a chance to check for any fluid leaks and corrosion development.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08cxqnaWn84

Also found that removing the bleednipples and applying some BLUE ( NOT red ) loctite on the threads prevents air and fluid escaping when the nipple is opened ( only a quarter of a turn ) to pass fluid, speedbleeders are doing the same, the loctite makes for a good seal during this job and still allows for movement, afterwards i also put a brake cleaner straw into the nipple, put a rag around it and clear all brake fluid out to prevent corrosion in that area before replacing the rubber cap on the nipple..

Other things to consider are to protect the cavity of the slave cylinder with a suitable grease like silicon paste against fluid which can creep past the seal and collect inside that cavity, same with the area under the rubber boot where the pushrod is behind the master cylinder.
Both areas can get messy if left unchecked but silicon grease can help protect the mostly aluminum surfaces and steel circlip over time.

Partsfish can be very helpful in finding out what the parts look like inside before working on them;
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/l/hon...a-ac-parts

[pekingduck]

Good advice Max!

You brought up a good point about sealing the bleed nipples. A vacuum power bleeder used on the bleed nipples will often pull air past the threads, and it looks like it will never bleed cleanly. I have used Teflon plumbing sealant tape on the bleed nipple threads so that no air sneaks through at the threads.

[STLTHMSTA_imp]

Update: I tried all suggestions (though I'm really not new at this). i didn't really see any high spots in the line when I took the tank off as suggested here. So I took the slave cylinder off and hung it from the line down to the flood. I pushed the piston in with a c-clamp. Tapped gently up and down the line to jar any bubbles up to the master. No luck, so I'm convinced that there is no air bubs left in the system. Looking in the fill hole it sure does look like the pressure plate isn't moving a lot but could be enough. I tried the foil in the bushing trick but no help. BTW, those little devils are $11+ each.
Next move might be to pop the clutch cover off to have a look. If someone has something else I'm all ears (and yes). Thanks, TM