tps evaluating for ii issues

[max]

Nice one Dave, that indicates to me that the iacv is actually working fine when in 1050 normal mode, it acts the same as on my bike.


It would be interesting to know if it still works if the 700 idle is happening, so if you blip the throttle, idle settles for 700 and then pull the hoses immediately when it idles at 700 rpm and see if it adjusts in the same way.


So test 1 is a success, see if you can catch a few 700 rpm idles in the act.

Oh, forgot to ask ;when you say slowly return to 1050 how many seconds you think for it to go from 700 to 1050 and is it always the same time span ?

In the mean time we are having a team discussion.

Thanks max

[dave]

Hi Max, thanks. Usually it takes between 5 and 10 seconds to return from 700 RPM to 1,050 RPM, but usually closer to 5. On the days when it stalls, it takes longer (closer to 10 seconds) to return.

I'll try to yank the hoses off tomorrow right when it is idling at 700 RPM. Do I risk sucking any dirt in if I ride the bike with the hoses disconnected? Will we gain any knowledge if I do this?

Thanks again Max, to you and the guys for all your support.

[max]

Hi Max, thanks. Usually it takes between 5 and 10 seconds to return from 700 RPM to 1,050 RPM, but usually closer to 5. On the days when it stalls, it takes longer (closer to 10 seconds) to return.

I'll try to yank the hoses off tomorrow right when it is idling at 700 RPM. Do I risk sucking any dirt in if I ride the bike with the hoses disconnected? Will we gain any knowledge if I do this?

Thanks again Max, to you and the guys for all your support.

Good questions Dave and thanks for the times

[dave]

IMPORTANT UPDATE! Took the bike out on errands this morning (10 miles of around town, multiple stop lights, turned the engine off and restarted 4 times), and it ran perfectly. Took it out a second time this afternoon and it ran the worse it has even run. The engine wanted to stall ½ the time I stopped, unless I held the throttle slightly open. When it wasn’t stalling, it was taking longer than usual (maybe 15 – 20 seconds) to increase in RPM, but was only reaching 1,000 RPM, not 1,050 RPM. I did the EVAP tube removal test multiple times and removing the tubes made absolutely no difference. I blipped the throttle several times with the tubes installed and removed, and there was no difference – for both cases the idle would drop to 700 RPM, and half of the time it would stall. Now here is the breaking news: When the engine stalled I noticed the sound that sounded like a solenoid valve operating for 2 or three seconds after the engine stopped (IACV?). I have never noticed this before, but that doesn’t mean it never happened before. I had my helmet off, and my head down low to look at the EVAP tubes when I heard it. So I Listened very carefully for this sound and repeated blipping the throttle and letting the idle drop to about 700 RPM each time (it was barely running, if it wasn’t stalling), and I heard the sound of the solenoid valve operating what may have been constantly. When I increased the RPM I could not be sure if the valve remained operating or not because it is very quiet, and difficult to hear (especially if you have bad hearing, like me), but it was definitely operating each time the RPM decreased, and when the engine stalled it continued to operate for 2 or 3 seconds. Hopefully this will provide some good information for you guys out there who are helping with this.

[max]

A flurry of e-mails is happening, and check your pm.

[max]

Thanks everybody for your input and helpful thoughts, including earlier suggestions, as you can guess we are slowly approaching the part where Dave can make some decisions;
1 start replacing one or more parts,
2 get in contact with Honda again.

None of us have a clear idea of the exact part that is the cause of the fault, however there are some things that have not been done and that is cleaning all connectors to the sensors;
a map sensor 3 pole connector ( left hand side behind plastic cover ).
b iacv 4 pole connector ( right hand side under plastic cover )
c evap purge valve 2 pole connector( right hand side under throttle body )
d air temp sensor small 2 pole connector up high ( left hand side under cb1100 side cover ).

E-mails are buzzing with bad electrical connections as a suspect so i thought i would point these out, also pm'd Dave with some other suggestions but just to keep everybody in the loop.

max

[Cormanus]

Great work, you guys. Really impressive.

[pdedse]

I sit on the sidelines, a bit mesmerized by the knowledge that several of you collectively have. I was really pulling for a low-cost fix so Dave's bike would run like it should, even though that would have made me regret my decision to trade in my affected '14 standard. I've thought a lot lately about trying one more time with a left over '14...how likely would it be that I would be the unlucky owner of two idle challenged bikes? Likely enough that I just can't bring myselft to go that route...so I'm at peace with my decision...

...but not at being CB1100-less.

[max]

Well don't forget it is really a team effort, we all have a different background and that presents many options.
Like you i would have enjoyed a poor connection and that may yet happen, the interesting bit is that replacing the iacv has had a good outcome for at least two of us and two more if you count the throttle body replacements.

The fact that we could not yet prove the iacv to be faulty does not mean it isn't, sometimes extremely difficult to test something, so as a last resort we may have to replace it and have a good look at what is happening inside.
Earlier in the day i walked in the local dealer and inquired about replacement and warranty policy, he sayd that if the issue has been brought up within the warranty period but could not be diagnosed it is still a valid claim, honda have in the past replaced stators on bikes up to 5 years old if the simple test shows the known fault, he says Honda is serious about warranty but it has to be proven the correct way.
When asked about a faulty iacv he stated; happens all the time exept on the cb1100, which is true for nz.

Have given Dave some options and i am very happy to stay on the case but after a year i really feel for Dave, it is simply not a fair go from his perspective with respect to the dealer.

New 2014 model? i would wait unless the dealer stands firmly behind it and i would get that in writing; no writing? why not?

Thinking about it it really is up to the dealership if success is achieved, Dave did not ask for a faulty bike now did he?



here is a picture of the culprit


max

[dave]

Thank you to all you great guys who are assisting to solve this problem. I put about 65 miles on the bike yesterday. The slow idle came, and went. Sometimes it is more severe that others, like when the engine was stalling on Saturday; yesterday it was not very severe (it worked back up to a normal idle in about 5 seconds). I listened for the IACV sound yesterday, and there was none. Something else I discovered, turning the bike off with the key and restarting it seems to "temporarily" resolve the low idle issue.

Do I have to remove the entire throttle body assembly from the bike to replace the IACV? I thought this is what the factory service manual said. Does this vale operate by rotating, or by traveling inward and outward?

I will replace my IACV and see if this works. However, my VFR800 is in pieces in the garage because I am rebuild the forks and replacing the steering head bearings, so I have to finish that job first.