oxigen sensor tutorial

[max]

Well, judging from the long timespan other members have had theirs installed it would appear safe to do so.

From what i can understand the 330 ohm resistor is there in place of the heating element to "fool" the ecm in thinking the heater is ok, the low voltage resulting from the lack of input of the zirconia element may produce a slightly richer mixture but that is JUST SPECULATION from me at this time as i have not had the opportunity to test this out but you could do a measurement with a voltmeter on the disconnected o2 sensor to verify it's value.

A valid test to me would be to disconnect the sense wire from the ecm only, measure the value of it as you present a variable voltage to the ecm and see if the voltmeter with the zirconia element registers a change in the richness of the fuel mixture, the sensor is thus in-circuit but only for readback of the mixture, hope that makes sense.

It may also be a good idea to ask the pipemasters guy on advice, he may have another angle on it and has done quite a few.

[Houtman_imp]

Thanks Max, I will send them an email.

[max]

Houtman i'm still on the case, my little voltmeter arrived yesterday and installed this morning, it sits on the brake reservoir on the handlebar where i can see it whilst driving ( carefully ).

First impressions; at startup it reads 1.00 v ( ? ), when the bike warms up to where the idle revs are reduced to 1300 the voltage drops from 1 volt to 0 volt in a steady pace ( the element has warmed up ).

Whilst driving you can see the voltage move up to .7 volts initially and after the ecm has noticed a steady throttle input it tries to get the voltage down to 0 volts and oscillates between 0 and 0.7 volts constantly and takes from 1 to 3 seconds to cycle up and down, this corresponds with the engine surging slightly but noticeably.

idling and low load produces a 0 volts reading and when the revs reach 4000 rpm the meter reads steady 0.8 volts.
At this point it stays at 0.8 volts and sometimes goes up to 0.85 volts under more throttle.

So looking at this i believe the o2 sensor is operational below 4000 rpm but the ecm ignores it above this value.

It appears that 0 volts represents a lean( ish ) condition and 0.7 volts a richer condition which the ecm tries to correct down regularly but not at a set rate, it appears a bit hap-hazard.

Have not finished my findings but wanted to let you know early since you are careful with the eliminators on your bike.
Remembering that the sensor has a "narrow band" in which it makes decisions so no big difference is to be expected in the fuel mixture.

We'll keep working on this because i want to use some form of eliminator as well.
and also read the excellent thread from Ferret some time ago, lots of good info in there;
http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....eliminator

There are a lot of eliminators out there functioning just fine, thanks Ferret!

[Houtman_imp]

Thanks Max , I have put one of the O2 sensor eliminators on my 2013 as I probably put a 4 into 4 on this bike to make it symmetrical looking.
I also ordered 3 more eliminators from the UK to put on my other bikes.
If you check the manuals and check for a malfunction O2 sensor all three years say : bike will function normally . I REALLY appreciate you doing all this as electronics is not my strong side !

[GoldOxide_imp]

Max: You are correct in your comments. Sensing exhaust gases is pretty basic on our vehicle and sampling rate is not very high (in seconds). It is just a sample average at a spot where the sensor is in the exhaust path, so the engineers design around this arrangement or restriction. I suppose if the sensors were moved, the reading behaviour would change a bit. The dynamic range (i.e. you said "narrow band") of the sensor is quite narrow, so it is a bit more care is likely used when consuming and vetting the data in the ECM.

I suspect that if a sensor reading goes out-of-range, the ECM will disregard and try to use some sort of default mode and increase carbon footprint to ensure a continued pleasurable ride. I am not sure how it manages if one or two out of four sensors randomly fail.

[Houtman_imp]

Some more questions on the O2 sensor eliminator. I had order 5 of them , put one on my 2013 and thought that the bike run "crispier " Today I took my 2017 out for a 100 mile trip up the mountain from 2000 ft to 4000 ft. Had installed two O2 sensor eliminators. On the ride up everything seemed fine but on the way back after about a mile after leaving the check engine light came on and stayed on , I also felt that the bike did not run as well. When I ordered the parts from Redline Superbikes in the UK the website did mention :not tested on the 2017 CB 1100. Could there be different values with the different years with regards resistance ? I am not an electronics expert AT ALL ! I will pull the plugs to see how they look. Hopefully in the next few days I can take my 2014 with the eliminators installed and see how that one will run with them in.
I have to do all my home work before ordering a 4 into 4 , I always say : you can not outsmart Honda and that is what I am doing now ?

[max]

Houtman, simple answer is; replace both and see if the cel stays off.

What i found out in the mean time may make sense to you, the sensors do not get their 12 volt supply for the heater directly from the common rail supplied by the red engine cut out switch and it's relay, it is supplied from the ecm as is the 0volt return, it is "modulated" from the ecm to not overheat the heater element which draws 1.5 amps cold and reduces to 0.8 amps when it is a bit warmer but not yet at operating temperature, this is not according to what the electrical diagram shows you.

I started with a 1500 ohm resistor instead of the heater ( which is what is the eliminator is doing ) and that ( 5 times bigger ) value makes the ecm " happy " and the cel stays off, i then installed a 470 ohm resistor and have been riding with it for abt 200 km with good results, the "surging" has disappeared predictably.
The voltage on the resistor measures 1,5 volt and the voltage ACROSS the resistor is 0,14 volt which is a very low and safe voltage.
The ecm "knows" something has happened but is happy to supply a much reduced voltage to the heater supply.

At the same time the voltage on the sense wire to the ecm is a measured 0.45 volt, a nice "middle of the road" value so i have to do nothing about that, the ecm takes care of that side and should produce a good value for determining the fuel air mixture.

If you or someone has a voltmeter you may first check if the resistor is of the same value as the new ones, has broken/ bad solder joint or something else wrong compared to a new one ( the two pins opposite the locking clip).
Second maybe check the voltage from chassis to the resistor ( 1.5 volt in my case ) and across the resistor ( 0.14 volt in my case ), you may have to dig into the insulation to get access to the resistor wires when it is connected to the bike.

On my bike it seems the value of the resistor is not at all critical but it may be different on your model, you could have several different value resistors and experiment ( or have a trusted tech check these values for you ) to see if they have become critical on the newer model, it will be different from mine after all these years and twice the o2 sensors.

Cheers.

[peterbaron]

For those, who would like to know.... tempering with O2 sensor will prevent ECU from going into closed loop, causing to increase voltage, which runs the engine richer.
Also, it will restrict the converter from reducing HC and CO as much as it could, increasing pollution levels. Longevity of the convertor will shorten.
Also, you may notice some side effects....

I found this very interesting:

http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html
+
http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-09.html

[Houtman_imp]

I checked the plugs and they look fine , I will remove the O2 sensor eliminators on the 2017 and see if it will run like before I put them on.
Also I might take them of my 2014 (have not run that bike yet with the O2 eliminators ) as I do not want the same problems as I did have this afternoon with the 2017. On the 2013 everything was great with the eliminator. (up till when ?) It makes me a little Leary to mess around too much with the 2014 and 2017 and I would only put the 4 into 4 on the 2013.