Valve Check On 2013

[SportsterDoc]

My wife and I had a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.3 liter V6.
Recommended valve check at 60,000 miles.

With a house in Las Vegas Valley and shop in Ventura County, CA, I commuted alternate weeks for about 10 years.

At that time, the service manager at Victorville Hyundai (mid route) was someone I trusted.
Around the 60K mile mark, I took it in to be checked.
Listening to the engine idle, with hood up, he advised me to not open it up.
He further advised that none of the ones checked needed adjustment.

We drove that vehicle for over 140,000 miles, until 2016, without ever touching the valves (bucket shim type).

The only issues were a TPS (limp mode) and later a CEL for the two fuel tank sensors not being in sync (replaced fuel pump and fuel sensors). It ran strong at the time it was traded.

Back to the CB1100:

Too much gap should be audible, certainly with a stethoscope, if not drowned out by the injectors.

The issue would be not enough gap, resulting in a valve not fully closing and burning that valve.
This would not happen from cam or bucket wear (open gap), but from a valve settling into its valve seat...which would likely happen during its early life.

Based upon reports on this forum, that is not happening.

At this point, the valve clearance check intervals seem extremely conservative.

 

[Guth_imp]

I'll likely be checking on mine sometime this year. I personally am not too worried about causing problems just by checking things out. If I do something wrong, well it's on me of course — live and learn, such is life. It's no wonder that our society has ended up with such a disposable mentality when it comes to countless products these days.

This is the one job that my mechanic buddy Chris expressed an interest in he and I performing together at his shop if I were up for it. My guess is that he'd really like to have a look inside of the engine. I'd love the opportunity to wrench with him and would be willing to pay to do so, but I also wouldn't have a problem with doing this on my own. I'll make that decision when the time comes. The main drawback (from a financial perspective) with going this route is that there's a good chance I'll end up having a Power Commander installed at that time as well $$$...

dbarkdoll, I agree with the others that it's likely the fuel injectors that you're hearing. But just for peace of mind, were it actually to prove that it was your valves making such noises, you might take some comfort in knowing that the quieter (looser) valves become (as opposed to becoming noisier), the more likely it is that something is going wrong. Quieter = tighter valves, tighter valves = more potential for damage. I'm not sure how old you are, but I would cherish the thought of working together on a motorcycle (any motorcycle) with my father were he still around. If your father has amassed a large number of tools, then it's highly likely that he truly enjoys tasks such as this (ask me how I know, lol). Good luck!

Great information Max! Much appreciated and respected.

 

[max]

Thanks Guth and let me take this opportunity to thank you and your team for what you do and how it's done.

It was a curiosity thing for me, i had listened to the valves as we all do and thought i could hear one of them but......
Pretty sure the bike can do at least another 40.000 km before it needs looking at again, the main things i found to look out for are;

1 damaging the gasket when separating from the head ( i lifted it clear and pushed it all up with a long and thin screwdriver ) whilst taking it out of the frame since there is very little clearance and easy to nick it on the invisible cam-chain guard, i spent some time taking care this would not happen.

2 dropping sand into the engine which would go through the oil pump first and then spends it's life grinding away suspended in the oil shortening engine life, i cleaned the frame and all parts surrounding it before the cover was removed.

3 putting parts back the wrong way, i probably took 60 pictures and some video's and could not work out where a rubber strip went, so i left it out only to find later that it is placed under the connectors of the ecm, not essential but underlines my finding over the years that the assemblers at the factory do the best job in the life of the bike, everything done after they finish is going backwards, so i motivate myself to take as much time, thought and effort to try and equal their dedicated work.

4 in the unlikely event that you do need shims allow for the time required to leave the bike in a safe and clean state until said shims can be installed, also write down, date and the mileage together with the in and ex gaps for each valve and it's position for future reference so you can spot a trend should one develop, measuring the gaps is very easy and the time is mostly spent writing and rotating the engine , pictures are your friends.

5 the 4 cam bearing covers and the two cam shafts are identical and i would definitely mark them so each went back the exact same place for (lack of ) wear purposes.

You are saving a considerable amount of money and get a good feel for what's going on underneath you in return, plan ahead and have a back-out plan for when you need it, don't rush and make sure you are ready for the job.

And finally if there is a problem i usually make a coffee and think instead of making a wrong move, it is not a race, it is a time to be careful,
and observant, time well spent, trust me.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Thanks Guth and let me take this opportunity to thank you and your team for what you do and how it's done.

It was a curiosity thing for me, i had listened to the valves as we all do and thought i could hear one of them but......
Pretty sure the bike can do at least another 40.000 km before it needs looking at again, the main things i found to look out for are;

1 damaging the gasket when separating from the head ( i lifted it clear and pushed it all up with a long and thin screwdriver ) whilst taking it out of the frame since there is very little clearance and easy to nick it on the invisible cam-chain guard, i spent some time taking care this would not happen.

2 dropping sand into the engine which would go through the oil pump first and then spends it's life grinding away suspended in the oil shortening engine life, i cleaned the frame and all parts surrounding it before the cover was removed.

3 putting parts back the wrong way, i probably took 60 pictures and some video's and could not work out where a rubber strip went, so i left it out only to find later that it is placed under the connectors of the ecm, not essential but underlines my finding over the years that the assemblers at the factory do the best job in the life of the bike, everything done after they finish is going backwards, so i motivate myself to take as much time, thought and effort to try and equal their dedicated work.

4 in the unlikely event that you do need shims allow for the time required to leave the bike in a safe and clean state until said shims can be installed, also write down, date and the mileage together with the in and ex gaps for each valve and it's position for future reference so you can spot a trend should one develop, measuring the gaps is very easy and the time is mostly spent writing and rotating the engine , pictures are your friends.

5 the 4 cam bearing covers and the two cam shafts are identical and i would definitely mark them so each went back the exact same place for (lack of ) wear purposes.

You are saving a considerable amount of money and get a good feel for what's going on underneath you in return, plan ahead and have a back-out plan for when you need it, don't rush and make sure you are ready for the job.

And finally if there is a problem i usually make a coffee and think instead of making a wrong move, it is not a race, it is a time to be careful,
and observant, time well spent, trust me.

Well written, Max!

 

[Guth_imp]

Thanks for choosing to share even more very wise words max.

I bought my old Hawk GT over a decade ago when I got back into motorcycling not just because I wanted to go riding and the Hawk was my first "dream bike", but also because that bike was relatively affordable and unlike a new bike it was going to require some degree of work on my part. I could have purchased a new bike at the time, or I could have taken the Hawk to a mechanic every time it needed some work, but that was not the motorcycle ownership experience that I was after. I've gotten to know my Hawk a lot better over the years as a result. In turn, my mechanical skills have improved a fair bit over time as well.

Working on the Hawk represents the only time I've checked / adjusted valves in an engine. The valve setup in the Hawk is a lot simpler when it comes to adjusting the clearances, but it was still a great learning experience. Fortunately, I learned the value of your last point about slowing down and thinking things through thanks to the Hawk. It represents the machine that I actually found pleasure through twisting my own wrenches. I haven't always gotten everything right the first time around, but I'm grateful for realizing the true value and enjoyment of carrying out my own mechanical work. I don't see that changing any time soon. That is also one more reason why I have so much respect for Honda products overall.

 

[the Ferret]

Unlike Guth, I find little pleasure in working on bikes. I am not by nature, very mechanically inclined. I'm the extroverted artistic one. I write stories and books, I draw and paint. I'm good with pencils and paper, and generally with people. My brother the introvert is good with tools and understanding mechanical processes. The world needs both kinds. Been like that since we were little boys. I can read the service manual and follow steps, and can/do work thru the simple stuff, adjusting a chain, pulling either wheel if I have to, changing the oil, filter and air filter, lubing a clutch pivot pin, replacing a battery etc, but it doesn't come to me naturally or easily., like it does my brother. If someone made something, almost anything, he can take it apart, fix it, and put it back together again. That was never me. Then again, you won't find him online as he just cannot grasp computer stuff, or cell phone stuff, or communicating much with people especially online, but face to face either, for that matter.

Beyond the most simple basics I have no desire to work on my motorcycles, I'd rather pay someone else with real mechanical talent/abilities to do the work, and I will ride them.

 

[Django]

 

[the Ferret]

:rofl: That's Randy (my younger brother)

 

[Lord Popgun]

He’ll be an engineer... :rofl:

 

[Guth_imp]

Interesting observations ferret. I liked math and science in high school, studied engineering in college and went on to work in the telecom industry. After five years time, I left the cushy engineering job due to a lack of interest so that I could pursue other things in life. Despite the technical comprehension that I exhibited early on, I had also always been fairly artistic. This lead to my serving as a graphic designer before finally bouncing back and forth between a number of marketing and IT roles for a variety of high tech companies. I still like to dabble in design now and then when the opportunity presents itself. In general, neither the left nor the right side of my brain is dominate. Sadly, this has often resulted in my growing bored with most pursuits after a short period of time. While I'm creative, I've definitely never been extroverted, lol.

When I was in high school, we were given the option of participating in either the industrial arts ("shop") or college prep courses. I saw college as my way out of the small rural town where I grew up so my path was set at that point. I can still remember having to walk through a portion the shop where guys were learning to tear apart and repair small internal combustion engines in order to get to one of my math classes back then. Honestly, I would have much preferred to be tearing apart engines back then. I sometimes think that I've been spending the last three decades of my life making up for that. I'm certainly not the best home mechanic out there, but I do enjoy it and get a great deal of satisfaction from turning my own wrenches under the right circumstances.

 

[the Ferret]

True story. i got my first street bike at 15, a Aermacchi badged Harley Davidson 50cc 2 stroke, approved by my father so I could make it to work after school. I came home from school one day and my motorcycle is taken apart in the driveway by the back porch. Pipe off, carb off, cyl head off, cylinder off. My younger brother, aged 13 had taken it apart. Of course I went ballistic, but he assured me that he would put it back together, that he was just curious how it all worked... And he did put it back together and it ran perfectly. Even at that young age, he had "the knack". At 15 he became a set up man for a Suzuki, Triumph, Norton dealership. At 20 he became a factory trained Yamaha/Moto Guzzi mechanic, and was very good at it. At 27 he was offered a job with a Cinti Fire Department because they needed someone who could work on the Fire Trucks. He retired a Fireman. Rides a Triumph now.

He could easily do the valve check on my Honda. He does his Triumph which uses the exact same valve layout, a layout which most of the manufacturers use these days.. Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Triumph. I won't ask him however since the mechanic I use at the shop assures me there is no need, and I don't want him to do all that work for nothing.

 

[dbarkdoll_imp]

Thank you everyone very much for all of your thoughtful and informed advice. As always, this forum is a wealth of priceless knowledge.

At this moment, I am thinking I will forgo the valve clearance check. I'll reaccess at 12,000 miles, unless the bike starts behaving abnormally. I have no reason to believe that it will though. Thanks again.

 

[max]

And here is why we put the black rubber keeper under the wings of the blue plastic clip or even replace both after some years;

Not exactly the same clip but similar system.

Nice story ferret, enjoyed reading it again.

 

[dave]

thanks Max for the high res photo's . i also could not get the fuel connector loose and gave up , turning the tank sideways on the frame with rags under it while installing my air horn .
so how does that thing come apart ?

I knew how the connector came apart (I read Max's thread first), but I still could not get mine apart with my bare hands. I resorted to using a needle-nose plyers and even after compressing the wings as far as they would go the connection would not come apart. I ended up using the plyers and small screwdriver to spread the joint open so the wings could disengage, and I cracked the connector. It cost me about $80.00 for a new fuel line / connector assembly. The opposite end of the fuel line uses the exact same type of connector, which I was able to remove without the plyers. The new assembly snapped right into position. I do not advise using tools, but I do not believe my original connector would have come apart without using them.