Took a test ride

[ChipBeck_imp]

I took a 25 mile test ride today on a CB1100, I was really looking forward to getting to ride the motorcycle.
It wasn't what I was expecting, I love the way it looks, and it is a Honda which is always a good thing.
I was disappointed in the power and it was kind of buzzy, hadn't rode an inline 4 for about 35 years so I wasn't sure what to expect, but coming off a BMW R1150R it is way way different.
I still want to like the bike though!
Do you get used to the vibes when it hits about 4500 rpm and above[/b]?
does it smooth out with age?
Just curious, because I REALLY like the look of the bike.

Wow, I've now ridden 3 modern BMW boxer twins and they all vibrated far more than the CB11. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the rear view mirrors shook so much I had to put my hand on them to dampen the vibration so I could see behind me. I had gone to the dealership to buy a GS1200 but the test drive killed my desire. The CB11 is electric smooth compared to a boxer. So smooth that Honda engineers staggered the intake timing to give the motor some vintage character. Different strokes for different folks.

Chip

 

[Deanohh_imp]

It seems ridiculous to me that, having the ability to optimize the engine, they would deliberately"un-smooth" the engine...... Not saying they didn't do it, but to me that's crazy. I at least would have liked the choice.

if they made a replacement cam that was ground so that the smoothness was put back in, I would buy it.

 

[the Ferret]

Yep they did, with intake valve timing. I would have preferred a perfectly smooth engine as well, but Im happy as is.

 

[Guth_imp]

I took a 25 mile test ride today on a CB1100, I was really looking forward to getting to ride the motorcycle.
It wasn't what I was expecting, I love the way it looks, and it is a Honda which is always a good thing.
I was disappointed in the power and it was kind of buzzy, hadn't rode an inline 4 for about 35 years so I wasn't sure what to expect, but coming off a BMW R1150R it is way way different.
I still want to like the bike though!
Do you get used to the vibes when it hits about 4500 rpm and above[/b]?
does it smooth out with age?
Just curious, because I REALLY like the look of the bike.

Wow, I've now ridden 3 modern BMW boxer twins and they all vibrated far more than the CB11. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the rear view mirrors shook so much I had to put my hand on them to dampen the vibration so I could see behind me. I had gone to the dealership to buy a GS1200 but the test drive killed my desire. The CB11 is electric smooth compared to a boxer. So smooth that Honda engineers staggered the intake timing to give the motor some vintage character. Different strokes for different folks.

Chip

Yes indeed.

And in this case, make mine a Four Stroke of the 1140cc Inline-4 variety.

 

[Buffalohead_imp]

If you are a BMW lover, you may not want to read this. All of this talk about BMW's begs me to chime in. I rode BMW's for almost 40 years. Of course any twin will have more vibration. The smaller displacement BMW's of yesteryear had little vibration. What little they had added character to the machine, IMHO. They were great bikes, the standard of the industry. The opposed twin cancelled vibration and the reliability was excellent.

Jump forward to today. I sold my last two late model BMW's. What a relief to get rid of them. I don't know what happened at BMW, maybe bad management, but they can't build a good motorcycle anymore (have you read the Consumer Reports article a few months ago?). I have one in my garage right now (belongs to a friend) that has 9,500 miles on it. The motor knocks, the trans won't shift, the ABS almost got him killed. A new ABS pump is $2400! The only thing he hasn't had trouble with is the final drive. I know a guy who is on his third one. Give me a chain and sprocket any day. At least they're easy to replace and then it's new again! What a piece of **** (pick the 4 letter word of your choice). I went from one of their most eager supporters to one of pure disgust. I wish I had not sold my last old bike, a 1962 BMW R69S. What a great bike and user friendly too.

When there is something as reliable as a Honda (or any other Japanese bike) available, I wouldn't even THINK about throwing my money away on a late model BMW. JMO

 

[enzo_imp]

Ditto Buffo.

 

[Buffalohead_imp]

Thanks Enzo, it's nice to know I'm not alone.

 

[mmrabit_imp]

Thanks Enzo, it's nice to know I'm not alone.

I know BMW has had some quality issues, but the one I have was bought new and has 72,000 trouble free miles. It is the only BMW I have ever had & it might fly all to pieces next time I ride it, you never know. (doesn't seem like it will though)
I am a big fan of Honda products, I just may have to take another test ride....sure like the way the CB looks.

 

[Buffalohead_imp]

Thanks Enzo, it's nice to know I'm not alone.

I know BMW has had some quality issues, but the one I have was bought new and has 72,000 trouble free miles. It is the only BMW I have ever had & it might fly all to pieces next time I ride it, you never know. (doesn't seem like it will though)
I am a big fan of Honda products, I just may have to take another test ride....sure like the way the CB looks.

I know BMW has had some quality issues, but the one I have was bought new and has 72,000 trouble free miles. It is the only BMW I have ever had & it might fly all to pieces next time I ride it, you never know. (doesn't seem like it will though)
I am a big fan of Honda products, I just may have to take another test ride....sure like the way the CB looks.
I am truly happy you haven't had any problems with yours. It's quite remarkable. When Consumer Reports reported their data, even HD had less reliability problems. But, as with all data, there are two ends to the spectrum. I personally know of situations where dealers refuse to flush the brake systems because they don't want the responsibility of the ABS pump going bad while in their shop. I have been around BMW's long enough to have seen these things for myself. Yours must be a real gem. I only wish mine, and people who I knew had bikes as trouble free as yours. Congrats!

 

[vfrpaul98_imp]

my fellow and lady riders, I would like to comment on this thread about Honda deciding to make the engine have old 70's character vibration and sound. what a crock comment started by someone, picked up and translated/ broadcasted by the press.
i worked for Honda engineering for 22 years before my retirement last year, i was in direct communication with stateside engineering and sat in on many meetings with usa and japan staff concerning product design, improvements, repairs, recalls legal actions etc.japan staff will make a statement to save face and not admit a mistake or the subject should not be discussed to prevent the info from becoming twisted or directing your thoughts to someplace they would not like to go.(emissions).so ,example #1, product planning tells engineering to design and produce the proto type model and come in at a given budget. engineering does so but the sales group says the engine is to smooth and quiet and its smoothness will hinder sales so rough up the running and noise . example #2, the press and we customers go test ride the cb1100 and tell the dealer what a great bike but the engine is to smooth and to quiet, no sale. make sense? no. my thoughts next. unofficial.
what i think, unofficial, we old techs here know that it was common practice in the old multi cylinder air cooled carb days to run the center cylinders with a little richer fuel mixture to combat overheating of these hot spots . some machines did come from the factory's this way.
our cb1100 may have longer intake valve opening times. opens a little sooner, closes a little later on cylinders #2 and #3 in an attempt to get as much fuel as possible given the fuel injector size and its trigger/time position and stay within the overall emissions reading at the exhaust. remember we don't want anyone to think about engine emissions so lets just say it gives the engine that 70's character, rough running and noise. just my thoughts.

 

[the Ferret]

I have read the staggered intake timing in multiple places, including interviews with the designer?

Listed on another forum

posted April 20, 2013 04:47 PM
unusual cam timing

A friend of mine just got a new Honda CB1100 and with it a service manual. He called me last night to ask if I had seen any motorcycle that had cam timing like the service manual listed for this new Honda. I had to say no and it left both of us scratching our heads.

First let me say I rode the bike and it is a nice piece. It is meant to be a bit of nostalgia with up to date handling and brakes. Back to the cam timing specs:

Intake timing for cyl 1 & 2 opens at 5 degrees ATDC, closes 28 degrees ABDC
Intake timing for cyl 3 & 4 opens at 5 degrees ATDC, closes 38 degrees ABDC
Exhaust timing for cyl 1,2,3,4 opens 42 degrees BBDC, closes 10 degrees BTDC

Different intake closing (10 degrees later & 10 degrees more duration) for 1,2 than 3,4
No cam timing overlap at TDC

I think the longer intake duration on 3 & 4 is to broaden the powerband

 

[vfrpaul98_imp]

no more comments from me, i promise.

 

[the Ferret]

Heck im no tech thats for sure..more like a parrot, repeating what ive heard over and over.lol

Just trying to understand.

Would cylinders 1 and 2 be inner cylinders?

 

[vfrpaul98_imp]

Intake timing for cyl 1 & 2 opens at 5 degrees ATDC, closes 28 degrees ABDC
Intake timing for cyl 3 & 4 opens at 5 degrees ATDC, closes 38 degrees ABDC
Exhaust timing for cyl 1,2,3,4 opens 42 degrees BBDC, closes 10 degrees BTDC
this is a misprint in the shop manual, happens all the time with a non procedure specs.if this was a service check procedure red flags would have flown very early from feedback from service engineering and field service techs.i'm sure it will be corrected by next shop manual printing if Honda knows about it.
correct spec should read-
intake timing for cyl #1 and#4 opens at 5 degrees atdc, closes 28 degrees abdc
intake timing for cylinders #2 and #3 opens 5 degrees atdc, closed 38 degrees abdc
Paul. Sr.Tech. Specialist, American Honda Motor Co.Inc= Retired.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Paul,

Thanks for the correction. I'm going to add that to my manual.

 

[the Ferret]

Paul,

Thanks for the correction. I'm going to add that to my manual.

+1. Thanks Paul.

 

[oldgoat01_imp]

Paul,

Thanks for the correction. I'm going to add that to my manual.

+1. Thanks Paul.

+1. Thanks Paul.
As will I (not really)...I mean I'm not even sure if those degrees are in Fahrenheit or Centigrade!

 

[Lord Popgun]

Paul,

Thanks for the correction. I'm going to add that to my manual.

+1. Thanks Paul.

+1. Thanks Paul.
As will I (not really)...I mean I'm not even sure if those degrees are in Fahrenheit or Centigrade!

+1. Thanks Paul.
As will I (not really)...I mean I'm not even sure if those degrees are in Fahrenheit or Centigrade!
It may be Kelvin, or Newton meters, or maybe furlongs

 

[bubblerboy64_imp]

Back to engine vibration. I've got some to compare so here is my opinion. It's subjective. Harley's (well some of them anyways) don't vibrate they SHAKE. If you mention that to their owners typically the response is something to the affect well "they smooth out once you get rolling". This is pretty much true but sitting at a stop light shaking would get old for me. The counter balanced engines much better.

BMW twins? If you twist the throttle at rest the bike actually jerks right and left but again smooth out at speed. There is some buzz from any two cylinder engine and certainly the singles are worse yet. The more cylinders the smoother on the average. How the engine is mounted makes a difference as well. Have had a couple Harley sportsters and the rubber mounting of their engines had made a HUDGE difference. A early sportster is absolutely crude compared to a new one.

The CB1100 and again in my opinion is over all a very smooth running and riding bike but I do notice a area in the rev band where there is some buzzy vibration. Those who don't notice it probably are coming off motorcycle that are worse and or are just taking this as normal for any motorcycle (which I think it is) If you keep the revs at or around 3000 RPM's there isn't much out there smoother. Depends a little on riding style.

BMW's. I like them but I've found them WAY too expensive to repair. Sold my last two. Honestly I like my Triumphs as well as the Honda's. And the Harley's have not been a lick of trouble either. Harley makes a nice machine they just seem to cost more and sell better then the other stuff. I feel it's image to a large extent. Having said that when you entire a Harley dealership you have to be impressed with the presentation. The bikes look fantastic in the show room and they look good on the road as well. Sex sells and Harley's are sexy boys.

 

[rboe]

My V twin GRiso is smoother at highway speeds even when she is running a higher rpm. I think it's because it has fewer firing pulses at that rpm than the Honda with twice as many spark plugs.

Down low the twin has some vibe to her but it's low frequency and "pleasant". You feel it as power vs. a vibration. The Honda is very electric at 3K and lower. But a buzz does come in around 4K. I need to spend more time at freeway speeds to explore this a bit more. So far, the limited times I've spent at around 70 have been OK. I just don't have the roll on acceleration the Griso has. But I bought the bike because it did NOT produce the power the Griso did in the theory I'll spend less time visiting with EMT's and nurses.