Suspension, have plan but input appreciated

[Banned_imp]

Ok, I have officially put the idea of getting the new CB1100RS to bed so as a consolation prize I am going to upgrade the suspension on my '14. And get a Stainetune.

I know exactly zero about suspensions, so after scouring the forum I have come up with the following:

Front suspension: AR-25 Axxion Rod Damper Kit, S41-2 - Traxxion Dynamics

The kit seems fairly straightforward and seems like it is the most popular choice for front suspension upgrades.

Rear suspension: https://www.gears-dynamics.com/products/honda-cb1100ex-ev-rear-shock-12-16?variant=105857024013
or
https://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/shop/7610-1507/

I'm not 100% decided on the rear, both look like good options. Of course the cheaper Icons are more appealing but I don't mind spending a little extra for better shocks. Ohlin's are a bit too much though.

Any thoughts? Are these choices out to lunch?

I'm going to order this week to ensure I have it done for the rally in June.

 

[el duque_imp]

I know nuthing too. Inquiring noob.
Not that I want to spend $$ but wondering what you will achieve with the upgrade. I'm sure this has been bandied about but what is it with the stock suspension?
too soft? hard?

 

[the Ferret]

Stock suspension is ok for many, lacking for some. Has a lot to do with drivers weight, riding style, local infrastructure etc

 

[Banned_imp]

For me the stock suspension is not adequate for a few reasons:

- I weigh about 215lbs (figure 230lbs with gear on) and that weight seems to overwhelm the suspension. I read once that Japanese and European bikes were set for avg weight of 165lbs (Harleys at (185lbs), I have no idea if this is true.

- a severe back injury and the accompanying surgeries leave me grasping for anything to extend my riding

- the roads here are really bad. Frost heaves take their toll and I am far off the beaten path.

 

[the Ferret]

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. I weigh 172 and the roads here are pretty smooth so I find the suspension pretty good. Not perfect, could be " plusher" for me over certain highway expansion joints, but for the most part, not worth investing lots of money in to me.

Hard to make 1 set of shocks that could be good for people weighing 172 AND 215. Going to be stiff or soft for somebody.

 

[Aussieflyer]

The front end presents plenty of opportunity for improvement. The CB's forks use a damper rod system that typically feels too plush over round bumps yet too harsh over square edge bumps. A damper rod system doesn't cope very well for a wide range of suspension travel rates, i.e. the speed at which the forks have to compress and rebound for the bump. This system is one of the oldest, simplest and cheapest methods employed by bike manufacturers to provide us with dampening. There's a lot of written material on internet if you want to know more. Now combine a damper rod system with an under rated spring for your 220lbs and you are going to have a soggy front end that sags too much just holding up the bike and you, feels too soft diving excessively under brakes, but feels too harsh when you hit a square edged bump.

There are two common modifications to damper rod forks that are very effective at improving performance:

1. Insert an Emulator valve in conjunction with an appropriate spring to suit your weight and the appropriate weight fork oil. The damper rods are drilled out to open up the oil passage so that all compression damping is performed by the newly inserted emulator valve. The choice of fork oil weight sets the rebound damping. This is the traxxion dynamics cure. It's inexpensive but may take some fiddling around to set the compression and rebound characteristics that you want - trouble is that you need to remove the forks and change the fork oil if you want to change the rebound characteristics. To change the compression characteristics you will need to unscrew the fork caps, remove the springs and extract the emulator to adjust the valve. An alternate option is to ...

2. Insert a cartridge assembly into each fork. The fork is gutted and reassembled with a cartridge system that includes springs and both rebound and compression damping circuits. This method is more costly however all damping characteristics are adjustable on the fork caps to give you an externally adjustable front suspension.

If all this is too much you could achieve a significant improvement by simply upgrading the spring rate to something more suited to your weight and experimenting with different fork oil weights until you're happy. This would be the least costly method but may involve removing/refitting forks a couple times until you have rebound where you want it.

There's a few forum members who have made these modifications and you could search the forum as I'm sure that some did share their experiences with us. I went the cartridge inserts route fitting Andreani units and so far have been very happy with the results. This post explains a little about the project: http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12036

The stock rear suspension wasn't too bad for me as I very rarely carry a pillion. You already have a lot of information on rear shocks and I would has at a guess that any reputable aftermarket suspension that includes rebound damping with the mandatory spring preload adjustability would be better than the stock units. Good news is that the rears are a 15 minute job to fit. Be careful not to over tighten the mounting bolts as they are light duty and only there to stop the unit from sliding off its mount.

Have fun! Upgrading the suspension is one of the best value modification you can do to the bike which you'll appreciate every time you ride.

 

[Macduff_imp]

Not sure if this helps but as an CB11RS owner who rides over undulating and oddly surfaced roads (flat or smooth never happens) I've found the rear shocks on the RS feel firmly sprung (possible firm compression, but its easy to overwhelm them at higher speeds when the road compressions use up all the travel. My own personal view (no suspension expert) is that due to it being a dual shock swingarm it needs a higher rising spring rate at the upper end than it has currently and that rebound damping needs to be stronger. Not sure if needs more compression damping as that could just make it feel harsh. No issues with the front fdual bending forks on the RS they just feel firm & compliant, I've not felt the need to tweak those though did add two steps of preload on the rear , might step back to one extra when the snow and salt have gone. If I keep my CB11RS I'll probably look at Nitron rear shocks (UK firm, who will custom spec them to weight & use) , I'm not a fan of street spec ohlins as they're more glitter than gold imo (had them on a GS1150ADV).

 

[Houtman_imp]

The front suspension on my CB 1100 are ok for me but I did put Ohlins on my 2013 and 2014. ( I am 220 plus 20 lbs of gear )
So far on my 2017 I do not feel the need for Ohlins or any after market shocks. Do the spoked wheels give a better ride???

 

[Banned_imp]

Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it.

After doing much more reading (I don't have much to do as I'm still stuck in the house for the most part) I have come to the following decision: I'm going to call Traxxion and Ikon, explain what I'm looking for and let the experts figure it for me.

I think a full cartridge system would probably be overkill for my riding style plus I want to try to keep the cost to under $1000 if at all possible.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

If you are after a smoother ride, especially on hard bumps I would suggest swapping your entire front forks to the '17 SDBV units. Much better.

Not only are they a easy quick direct bolt on- but this way you can sell your stock forks to offset a good chunk of the cost.

The Trax kit is more of a stiffer sporty ride from all what I have read. Unless that is what you are going for?

I *thought* I didn't have a problem with the rear shocks until I put on the 17 forks...then I noticed the rear on hard bumps more so. So I put Ikons on the rear. Also better than stock.

 

[Banned_imp]

If you are after a smoother ride, especially on hard bumps I would suggest swapping your entire front forks to the '17 SDBV units. Much better.

Not only are they a easy quick direct bolt on- but this way you can sell your stock forks to offset a good chunk of the cost.

The Trax kit is more of a stiffer sporty ride from all what I have read. Unless that is what you are going for?

I *thought* I didn't have a problem with the rear shocks until I put on the 17 forks...then I noticed the rear on hard bumps more so. So I put Ikons on the rear. Also better than stock.

I remember reading about your upgrade to the '17 forks. If it's not too much bother - what was the final cost?

I'm going for comfort which would lend itself more to the '17 forks but the roads are really, really bad here and I bottom out frequently on both the front and back (but more so the front I believe) which I think (again my knowledge of suspensions peaked when I wrote the word "suspension") would require a stiffer, sportier spring?

For the rear I am definitely going Ikon. I like the Gears-Dynamic shocks (forum member Camoto has a thread on them) but they might be more than I really need.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

If you use the Babbits phone app and that code you get 10% off.

 

[Banned_imp]

If you use the Babbits phone app and that code you get 10% off.

:rofl: You lost me at "phone app", I am somewhat of a luddite - I have a 10yr old flip phone that you can call in or call out. That's it. And I share it with my wife.

But all is not lost, I found Babbitts website and I'm going to order the '17 forks tomorrow.

Thanks Powerdubs!

 

[beardyweirdy@me.com_imp]

Worth having a look at the Hagon Nitro rear shocks as well. They have a website and a distributer in Cali. I've got them on the rear and they are very good and great value. Comp and rebound damping. You can choose your spring to fit you weight too.

I went with Andreani in the front. You get a completely adjustable front end with as much or little comp and rebound damping as one could ever need.

I really like them. Riding around London, I sometimes think I'd be better off with a MX bike, between the potholes and the speed bumps.

My front end now takes the bumps well but with little diving on the brakes. It steers perfectly too.

 

[Banned_imp]

Thanks Beardy, I'll look into those rear shocks.

I did it - I ordered the '17 front shock assemblies, a little more (ok, a lot) more than I wanted to spend though. The discount code wouldn't work, I think it may be for the US only.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Discount code only works if you use the mobile app on the phone or tablet such as an iPad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Banned_imp]

I ordered from a tablet, not an IPad though. Every time I punched in the code the country selector would automatically switch to the US and give no other choices.

 

[Houtman_imp]

PowerDubs , I assume you put the 2017 forks on a 2014 , as they might not fit the 2013 ?

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Yes, my bike is a 2014. You have to check the parts breakdown, but I am pretty sure nothing changed on the front from 13-14.

The rear did change- axle diameter, etc.

 

[Houtman_imp]

It might perhaps make sense to put 2017 front forks on my 2014.
If the Adreani units need upkeep than they might not be for me.
I am not great in replacing the fork oil on my bikes.
It used to be very easy years ago when the forks had little drain plugs on the bottom.