powdercoat wheel nightmare!

[beermonster83_imp]

hi guys, im new here as I have just bought my 2013 cb1100 with the cast alloys. well I decided to powdercoat them, my go what an expensive lesson learned!! im now near the end both financially and in rebuilding the bike and putting the wheels on.
few questions, do I need to replace the bolts for caliper mount and the brake disc rotor bolts? some say yes others no.

many thanks in anticipation

 

[CA200_imp]

The Honda service manual says to replace them but most people don't.

 

[camoto_imp]

Only because you are asking-- I hate to be that guy but I would replace them.

The service manual says to replace them for a reason. Now, I know it can be argued that they are trying to fleece you for money, and in the circumstance of any other parts I would agree with that argument but this is a safety item. I just did this very same work and replaced every fastener, seal and bearing and I recommend that you do the same. You'll feel better about the end result and there will be little doubt that you'll have anything fail due to an over-stretched fastener or fatigue.

 

[2017EX_imp]

It would be interesting to know exactly why the manual says to replace them. I imagine replacing the bolts would not be cost prohibitively expensive, particularly for a safety item. That said, I replaced my bar ends, and the manual said to replace the mounting screws. Since the bar end screws are not under a lot of torque, and consequently not subject to fatigue, the only reason I could think of to replace them was that new ones have a fresh thread locking patch on them from the factory. I did not replace the bar end screws because they were perfect, and simply used some blue thread locker. So, perhaps this is the same situation with the rotor bolts?

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

It would be interesting to know exactly why the manual says to replace them. I imagine replacing the bolts would not be cost prohibitively expensive, particularly for a safety item. That said, I replaced my bar ends, and the manual said to replace the mounting screws. Since the bar end screws are not under a lot of torque, and consequently not subject to fatigue, the only reason I could think of to replace them was that new ones have a fresh thread locking patch on them from the factory. I did not replace the bar end screws because they were perfect, and simply used some blue thread locker. So, perhaps this is the same situation with the rotor bolts?

They are a single-use bolt which stretches a predetermined amount. Once used and removed, the bolt is considered unsuitable to put back in service.

I've replaced a bunch of these. I think I still have quite a few left over.

It'll cost about $20 to replace them, cheap insurance. Honda says to do it, I do it.

You COULD replace the bolt with a conventional, non-stretching type of the proper grade and size, but I figure Honda have a reason for using that particular bolt and when it comes to brakes, I don't like guessing.

Bar end weights, if they come loose, not likely to lead to a crash.

Brake calipers, probably.

 

[2017EX_imp]

I learn something new every day! Thanks Ulvetanna!

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I learn something new every day! Thanks Ulvetanna!

I got into mine pretty deep when I had it. I still have that expensive little tool to keep the cam chain tight whilst doing the valve check. 90 bucks. And I still have a set of cush drive inserts I was going to install to clean up some driveline lash. Gave the owner's manual away with the bike sale, though.

If I get the EX or RS I speculate I'll need a new manual, anyway.

 

[beermonster83_imp]

thanks so much for all your replies, I think I will get the bolts replaced. would it be the same for the brake calliper mounting bolts?

also does anyone know the torque settings for the disc bolts front and rear?

many thanks this is helping me a lot! :banana:

 

[Houtman_imp]

What was the nightmare with your powder coating ? company , cost or quality ?

 

[Lord Popgun]

Beermonster. The service manual shows that the bolts are ALOC bolts. That means they come with a locking agent on the threads. You could add your own and reuse them. As far as I know they are not torque to yield bolts. On one site, they joke that ALOC means Add Locker or Crash But buying new ones is not a bad thing.

Anyway the torque spec is:
Front Brake Caliper Mounting Bolts (4): 23 ft lbs
Rear Brake Caliper Bolt (1) : 16 ft lbs

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Beermonster. The service manual shows that the bolts are ALOC bolts. That means they come with a locking agent on the threads. You could add your own and reuse them. As far as I know they are not torque to yield bolts. On one site, they joke that ALOC means Add Locker or Crash But buying new ones is not a bad thing.

Anyway the torque spec is:
Front Brake Caliper Mounting Bolts (4): 23 ft lbs
Rear Brake Caliper Bolt (1) : 16 ft lbs

Yes, they are torque-to-yield bolts. I researched this very thoroughly four years ago. Just do not want anyone to have incorrect information. That's why Honda want you to replace them.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Wolf, Not to start an argument, but can you provide any evidence of that? I ask as there are a number of ALOC bolts on the bike that are for mundane things. To me 16 and 23 ft. Lbs doesn’t seem like enough to really streach a bolt, but I’m not a mechanical engineer either.

Did you find out what ALOC means? On other boards they can’t decide if they are torque to yield or just have locker already applied.

I do agree that following the manual is prudent.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Wolf, Not to start an argument, but can you provide any evidence of that? I ask as there are a number of ALOC bolts on the bike that are for mundane things. To me 16 and 23 ft. Lbs doesn’t seem like enough to really streach a bolt, but I’m not a mechanical engineer either.

Did you find out what ALOC means? On other boards they can’t decide if they are torque to yield or just have locker already applied.

I do agree that following the manual is prudent.

When I first went to change the tires on my 2013, I found out about this. No other bike I'd had used this kind of bolt. So I researched it and learned that the bolt is a "stretch-to-torque" type and thus, Honda say it needs to be replaced every time.

I can't recall just where I got the information, but I got it, and I still have six of those bolts in my garage, unused. I laid in a supply.

The evidence is that Honda says to replace the bolt. If it just needed some thread lock, that would be specified as the procedure, not replacement.

But I do very clearly recall learning that this particular bolt was a stretch type and that's why it needed to be replaced every time. In fact, I compared the length of the used bolt with a new one, and sure enough, there was a noticeable difference, unlike what you'd find on a typical brake caliper bolt.

I found these bolts for $2.15 each online, so the price is not excessive. It's only necessary to remove on caliper (the left) to remove the front wheel. I think following Honda's instructions is the safe play here. These are your brakes, it's ten bucks for all four bolts.

Guys will pour thousands of dollars into cosmetic mods but try to skip a simple thing like this. I would not want to find out why Honda said replace 'em the hard way.

The other thing is, none of us are mechanical engineers, but Honda has some of the best. And they say use new bolts.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Well, that length difference is pretty informative. I think I’ll have to order some and lay in a supply too!

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Well, that length difference is pretty informative. I think I’ll have to order some and lay in a supply too!

Good grief, almost 6,000 posts! Just noticed that. You got to be an old-timer around here.

I gave my service manual away and I thought about just giving those bolts to someone, but since I'm thinking on getting another CB1100, I'm gonna hang on to that and the cush drive inserts I still have new in the packaging.

Might need 'em sometime.

 

[peterbaron]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"....... "stretch-to-torque" type and thus, Honda say it needs to be replaced every time.
.. .....Guys will pour thousands of dollars into cosmetic mods but try to skip a simple thing like this. I would not want to find out why Honda said replace 'em the hard way.

The other thing is, none of us are mechanical engineers, but Honda has some of the best. And they say use new bolts....."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CORRECT = REPLACE as per Honda (did not know either)
In cars, same issue for cylinder head bolts = replace every time head is pulled off

pb

 

[flynrider]

Wolf, Not to start an argument, but can you provide any evidence of that? I ask as there are a number of ALOC bolts on the bike that are for mundane things. To me 16 and 23 ft. Lbs doesn’t seem like enough to really streach a bolt, but I’m not a mechanical engineer either.

Did you find out what ALOC means? On other boards they can’t decide if they are torque to yield or just have locker already applied.

I do agree that following the manual is prudent.

When I first went to change the tires on my 2013, I found out about this. No other bike I'd had used this kind of bolt. So I researched it and learned that the bolt is a "stretch-to-torque" type and thus, Honda say it needs to be replaced every time.

I can't recall just where I got the information, but I got it, and I still have six of those bolts in my garage, unused. I laid in a supply.

The evidence is that Honda says to replace the bolt. If it just needed some thread lock, that would be specified as the procedure, not replacement.

But I do very clearly recall learning that this particular bolt was a stretch type and that's why it needed to be replaced every time. In fact, I compared the length of the used bolt with a new one, and sure enough, there was a noticeable difference, unlike what you'd find on a typical brake caliper bolt.

I found these bolts for $2.15 each online, so the price is not excessive. It's only necessary to remove on caliper (the left) to remove the front wheel. I think following Honda's instructions is the safe play here. These are your brakes, it's ten bucks for all four bolts.

Guys will pour thousands of dollars into cosmetic mods but try to skip a simple thing like this. I would not want to find out why Honda said replace 'em the hard way.

The other thing is, none of us are mechanical engineers, but Honda has some of the best. And they say use new bolts.

I remember that the last time this question came up (probably a few years ago), somebody posted a pic of a used bolt alongside a new bolt. The difference was obvious. The used bolt was longer and noticeably thinner around the middle of the threads.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Wolf, Not to start an argument, but can you provide any evidence of that? I ask as there are a number of ALOC bolts on the bike that are for mundane things. To me 16 and 23 ft. Lbs doesn’t seem like enough to really streach a bolt, but I’m not a mechanical engineer either.

Did you find out what ALOC means? On other boards they can’t decide if they are torque to yield or just have locker already applied.

I do agree that following the manual is prudent.

When I first went to change the tires on my 2013, I found out about this. No other bike I'd had used this kind of bolt. So I researched it and learned that the bolt is a "stretch-to-torque" type and thus, Honda say it needs to be replaced every time.

I can't recall just where I got the information, but I got it, and I still have six of those bolts in my garage, unused. I laid in a supply.

The evidence is that Honda says to replace the bolt. If it just needed some thread lock, that would be specified as the procedure, not replacement.

But I do very clearly recall learning that this particular bolt was a stretch type and that's why it needed to be replaced every time. In fact, I compared the length of the used bolt with a new one, and sure enough, there was a noticeable difference, unlike what you'd find on a typical brake caliper bolt.

I found these bolts for $2.15 each online, so the price is not excessive. It's only necessary to remove on caliper (the left) to remove the front wheel. I think following Honda's instructions is the safe play here. These are your brakes, it's ten bucks for all four bolts.

Guys will pour thousands of dollars into cosmetic mods but try to skip a simple thing like this. I would not want to find out why Honda said replace 'em the hard way.

The other thing is, none of us are mechanical engineers, but Honda has some of the best. And they say use new bolts.

I remember that the last time this question came up (probably a few years ago), somebody posted a pic of a used bolt alongside a new bolt. The difference was obvious. The used bolt was longer and noticeably thinner around the middle of the threads.

I remember that the last time this question came up (probably a few years ago), somebody posted a pic of a used bolt alongside a new bolt. The difference was obvious. The used bolt was longer and noticeably thinner around the middle of the threads. That's exactly what I recall.

 

[736cc_imp]

Just to clarify, are the brake rotor bolts to be replaced everytime they’re removed? And the caliper bolts as well?

 

[Lord Popgun]

According to the service manual, yes. Replace.

However, the caliper pin bolts can be reused. Book says apply a locking agent to the threads.