PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
I think you are just bored. 
Opinions on the Kawasaki Concours 14
- Thread starter misterprofessionality
- Start date
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
I really like the VFR800 DLX idea. Also consider a F800GT — it makes for a worthy comparison to the VFR.
misterprofessionality
Road warrior
Thread starter
worthy, but also much more expensive! :rofl:LongRanger_imp said:
Thanks for all the input on the other bikes Ferret. I really do have high hopes for the Vstrom. that Twin characteristic is something none of the other bikes have, and price vs. comfort level is right on point. I tend to think you're quite right about the VFR in that it threatens to be the least comfortable of any of the bikes on the list. It's funny that you said the FJ was not thrilling because it's actually objectively faster than the vfr. This means the VFR should prove not thrilling either (which is a theory i already held). Fortunately, I've ridden an FJ-09/tracer at length and I'm familiar with its engine characteristics and performance. It's true that it wasn't exactly a thrill ride, but I didn't dislike it. at the time i purchased my CB instead of the FJ just because the CB was just better and easier to live with for the money. I wasn't considering safety measures very much at the time. My main deal with the FJ that rubbed me the wrong way was the height...this is why i wanted the VFR in the mix, because of all the bikes i'm looking at it's the only one that doesn't threaten to be uncomfortable in stop-and-go traffic.
Josh: I might be bored but this all did genuinely come out of a desire to do something to improve the level of safety and efficiency of my commutes. I protect my body with gear, there's no reason why i shouldnt be trying to protect my body with technology as well. It's time the CB started being ridden in places where I can enjoy it, not amongst cars in traffic every day. I'll save that for something that's better equipped for that purpose.
VFR800: Unless it's the previous-generation 1998-2001 model, stay away. The 2002 model saw the introduction of, well, the ruination of perhaps the greatest all-around motorcycle of all time. What Honda committed with its destruction of the VFR is on par with what Suzuki did with the SV650 when they changed it to the Gladius. At least Suzuki had the good sense to admit their error and correct it. Honda never did.
By the way, any version of the VFR is a lot faster than your CB. The VFR is a 150-mph motorcycle. Its top end will annihilate the CB.
FJ-09 Tracer: There is a good reason that bike so often turns up with very low miles in the used-bike classifieds. As mickey stated, it seems great on paper. An FZ-09 set up for touring, at that price? Sign me up!
Yeah, sure...until you take it on your first freeway slog, and never want to ride it again. A touring bike that sucks at basic mile-gobbling is not a good thing. Way too much noisy, headache-inducing wind buffeting, and the throttle response is nowhere near as good as its XSR900 sibling's. Also, it's very tall and unwieldy.
You would be much better off with its direct rival from Kawasaki, the Versys 1000, or even the Versys 650.
Tiger 800XC: For your purposes, skip the dirt-oriented XC model. Get the standard, street-oriented version. As long as it isn't too tall for you, its only potential issue is, again, noisy wind buffeting, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Tracer's. Also, even though it has sufficient power, that's all it is: sufficient. Lastly, the hard bags are expensive and flimsy. They're fine for commuting use, but the mounts break right off with any sustained dirt use.
V-Strom 1000: Bingo. That's your best option, as long as you can get past its gawdawful aesthetics. Then again, who cares? Commuters and long-distance types tend to be Function First riders, not style queens. The only other downside to the V-Strom 1000 is its height. Again, if it's not too tall for you, you're golden. Like the Versys, you might also consider the 1000's far more popular baby brother, the "Wee Strom," aka the V-Strom 650.
By the way, any version of the VFR is a lot faster than your CB. The VFR is a 150-mph motorcycle. Its top end will annihilate the CB.
FJ-09 Tracer: There is a good reason that bike so often turns up with very low miles in the used-bike classifieds. As mickey stated, it seems great on paper. An FZ-09 set up for touring, at that price? Sign me up!
Yeah, sure...until you take it on your first freeway slog, and never want to ride it again. A touring bike that sucks at basic mile-gobbling is not a good thing. Way too much noisy, headache-inducing wind buffeting, and the throttle response is nowhere near as good as its XSR900 sibling's. Also, it's very tall and unwieldy.
You would be much better off with its direct rival from Kawasaki, the Versys 1000, or even the Versys 650.
Tiger 800XC: For your purposes, skip the dirt-oriented XC model. Get the standard, street-oriented version. As long as it isn't too tall for you, its only potential issue is, again, noisy wind buffeting, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Tracer's. Also, even though it has sufficient power, that's all it is: sufficient. Lastly, the hard bags are expensive and flimsy. They're fine for commuting use, but the mounts break right off with any sustained dirt use.
V-Strom 1000: Bingo. That's your best option, as long as you can get past its gawdawful aesthetics. Then again, who cares? Commuters and long-distance types tend to be Function First riders, not style queens. The only other downside to the V-Strom 1000 is its height. Again, if it's not too tall for you, you're golden. Like the Versys, you might also consider the 1000's far more popular baby brother, the "Wee Strom," aka the V-Strom 650.
misterprofessionality
Road warrior
Thread starter
I believe you're right about that but there's an important circumstance you're not considering: we don't ride around on the top end all the time in real life. the CB's bottom end would likely destroy the VFR. and, quite frankly, real life happens on the bottom end of the bike. it's one of the reasons i love my CB so darn much.VLJ_imp said:
actually that's pretty funny because i JUST rode a Versys 1000 today! i found it to be a very cushy cloud of a bike that was much faster than it seemed to be. something about the design of the bike created a problem with crosswinds though. that was the only part i wasn't happy about. also the version i rode didn't have a gear indicator!! what the heck is up with that? otherwise yea, the Versys 1000 is a fine bike. the biggest problem with them is that they seem to cost a fair bit more than their competitors on the used market.VLJ_imp said:
My instincts told me as much about the DL1000. that Twin...it's the most unique option of the bunch, and promises a torquey, satisfying experience with a lot of comfort. It also comes with all the trimmings that I want, and all the options i found were far less expensive than the Versys.VLJ_imp said:
the 650 variants are just not my cup of tea though. If the bike i buy is too small i'm just going to feel compelled to ride my CB to work more often, which undermines the added safety i will get from the higher tech bike. i'm not good at depriving myself of enjoyment on purpose. I'm aiming for a bike that is at least equally enjoyable to ride compared to the CB.
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Besides abs, what is the rest of the safety you are after?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The V-Strom 650 is scarcely any smaller than the 1000. It's just lighter and more manageable, and delivers its power at higher RPM. Otherwise, it's available with all the same safety tech.
As for the VFR800, no one in real life rides them at the same RPM one rides a CB1100, so there is no point in comparing their bottom-end power, at least as it pertains to a given RPM. The VFR revs much more quickly, and much more, period. As a result, you're never down in the 2-3,000 RPM range for long on a VFR, as you nearly always are on the CB. Take off from a stoplight, however, or accelerate practically anywhere, and it will smoke a CB1100. Sure, you're nearly always riding in a higher RPM range, but so what? That's how it's ridden in the real world. In fact, that's how it's designed to be ridden. Plus, yes, the top end is in a different league altogether. The CB is all about smooth, effortless, linear, leisurely acceleration. It never leaps or lunges. It never accelerates hard, not even off the very bottom. It simply steams forward, like a locomotive. The VFR is somewhat similar, in that it prioritizes linearity over peak numbers, but it always accelerates harder than the CB. It's a much lighter sport-touring bike with more HP.
Most bikes don't come with gear indicators. It's not a big deal. That's how we all rode, for most of our lives. You quickly learn your motor, to the point that you can always tell by the sound, feel, and RPM what gear you're in. Gear indicators are nice to have, but not essential. They're especially not essential for a commuter bike, with redlines never coming into play.
As for the safety factor, the only important technology your CB lacks is ABS, which, as you know, is available on certain CB models. Unless you're commuting in the rain, even ABS really isn't all that important. Again, it's better to have it, but it's not essential. Most people never engage their ABS in the entire time they own the bike, except to test it out when they first get the thing out on a straight, deserted road. There, they test it out at about thirty mph, in a controlled drill. In the real world, on dry pavement, riding normally, people rarely brake hard enough to engage it.
If you do a lot of rain riding, by all means, insist on ABS. Traction control is not important on a basic commuter bike. It's important for high-hp bikes that have the ability to overpower their rear tires with only a decent handful of throttle. A KTM Super Duke R needs traction control. A CB1100 does not. Neither do many of the bikes on your list. From among your stated options, probably only the Versys 1000 might ever need it. Maybe the V-Strom 1000, but not really.
As for the VFR800, no one in real life rides them at the same RPM one rides a CB1100, so there is no point in comparing their bottom-end power, at least as it pertains to a given RPM. The VFR revs much more quickly, and much more, period. As a result, you're never down in the 2-3,000 RPM range for long on a VFR, as you nearly always are on the CB. Take off from a stoplight, however, or accelerate practically anywhere, and it will smoke a CB1100. Sure, you're nearly always riding in a higher RPM range, but so what? That's how it's ridden in the real world. In fact, that's how it's designed to be ridden. Plus, yes, the top end is in a different league altogether. The CB is all about smooth, effortless, linear, leisurely acceleration. It never leaps or lunges. It never accelerates hard, not even off the very bottom. It simply steams forward, like a locomotive. The VFR is somewhat similar, in that it prioritizes linearity over peak numbers, but it always accelerates harder than the CB. It's a much lighter sport-touring bike with more HP.
Most bikes don't come with gear indicators. It's not a big deal. That's how we all rode, for most of our lives. You quickly learn your motor, to the point that you can always tell by the sound, feel, and RPM what gear you're in. Gear indicators are nice to have, but not essential. They're especially not essential for a commuter bike, with redlines never coming into play.
As for the safety factor, the only important technology your CB lacks is ABS, which, as you know, is available on certain CB models. Unless you're commuting in the rain, even ABS really isn't all that important. Again, it's better to have it, but it's not essential. Most people never engage their ABS in the entire time they own the bike, except to test it out when they first get the thing out on a straight, deserted road. There, they test it out at about thirty mph, in a controlled drill. In the real world, on dry pavement, riding normally, people rarely brake hard enough to engage it.
If you do a lot of rain riding, by all means, insist on ABS. Traction control is not important on a basic commuter bike. It's important for high-hp bikes that have the ability to overpower their rear tires with only a decent handful of throttle. A KTM Super Duke R needs traction control. A CB1100 does not. Neither do many of the bikes on your list. From among your stated options, probably only the Versys 1000 might ever need it. Maybe the V-Strom 1000, but not really.
the Ferret
Road warrior
probably modes, and traction control and cruise can be considered a safety feature as well on a long trip.
misterprofessionality
Road warrior
Thread starter
to answer questions about other safety features besides ABS, this is the assessment of what hinders me from being my best on the road:
*braking, that's what the ABS is for
*rain performance, this is a multi-part problem. I could have some better performing tires if my wheels weren't 18". I could have traction control and rain modes on most modern motorcycles to increase my stability in the rain. I've been riding many years in rainy conditions and though i'm quite used to compensating, you never know how a bit of technology can make all the difference in an emergency. just "being a better rider" isn't all there is to it. There's no reason not to take advantages of the tools that are available to me. I can be a better rider on top of that and be that much better than somebody who does the same without the tools.
*Wind. This is another thing i've grown really used to over the years, as I've never really had a bike with any significant wind protection. it buffets me, i compensate, but all that takes a bit of my concentration and makes me more rigid at the helm. Another thing that can come into play in an emergency. I have a theory that a bit of added comfort can go a long way to keeping me loose and aware.
*Heat. again, i'm a year round commuter. so i ride in winter conditions. It doesn't get dreadfully cold in Charleston, but it certainly hits the 30s at times. the pain of frosted fingers and other parts from riding a naked bike in those conditions is something that i've always been plagued with. it saps my strength and awareness. there are times i've gotten to work in the cold and been unable to remember anything at all specific about the ride in. like i was on autopilot just zoning out to get through the cold. I think a bike with heated grips and a heated seat could go a long way combined with wind protection and some upgraded gear. a lot longer than just upgrading my gear. Taking away this huge distraction in the winter enhances my safety.
*Suspension. this is about stability in turns when on recreational rides or on steep hairpin onramps.
Aside from the safety aspects, It occurs to me that this whole escapade is going to cost me thousands of dollars, so i might as well get some other purely recreational perks out of the deal. having a second bike affords me the opportunity to get something that can do things my CB can't do. such as tour much longer distances, bring my wife 2 up comfortably (she rides her own ride, but not long distances), or just plain have a bigger gas tank and more efficiency so that i don't have to fill up every 3 days. Features like accerssory connectors and storage capabilities also fall under this "just because" category.
basically, it's not about need i just found it annoying, and i tend not to spend my money on annoying. i'm not saying it disqualifies a versys entirely, i'm just saying....points against.
*braking, that's what the ABS is for
*rain performance, this is a multi-part problem. I could have some better performing tires if my wheels weren't 18". I could have traction control and rain modes on most modern motorcycles to increase my stability in the rain. I've been riding many years in rainy conditions and though i'm quite used to compensating, you never know how a bit of technology can make all the difference in an emergency. just "being a better rider" isn't all there is to it. There's no reason not to take advantages of the tools that are available to me. I can be a better rider on top of that and be that much better than somebody who does the same without the tools.
*Wind. This is another thing i've grown really used to over the years, as I've never really had a bike with any significant wind protection. it buffets me, i compensate, but all that takes a bit of my concentration and makes me more rigid at the helm. Another thing that can come into play in an emergency. I have a theory that a bit of added comfort can go a long way to keeping me loose and aware.
*Heat. again, i'm a year round commuter. so i ride in winter conditions. It doesn't get dreadfully cold in Charleston, but it certainly hits the 30s at times. the pain of frosted fingers and other parts from riding a naked bike in those conditions is something that i've always been plagued with. it saps my strength and awareness. there are times i've gotten to work in the cold and been unable to remember anything at all specific about the ride in. like i was on autopilot just zoning out to get through the cold. I think a bike with heated grips and a heated seat could go a long way combined with wind protection and some upgraded gear. a lot longer than just upgrading my gear. Taking away this huge distraction in the winter enhances my safety.
*Suspension. this is about stability in turns when on recreational rides or on steep hairpin onramps.
Aside from the safety aspects, It occurs to me that this whole escapade is going to cost me thousands of dollars, so i might as well get some other purely recreational perks out of the deal. having a second bike affords me the opportunity to get something that can do things my CB can't do. such as tour much longer distances, bring my wife 2 up comfortably (she rides her own ride, but not long distances), or just plain have a bigger gas tank and more efficiency so that i don't have to fill up every 3 days. Features like accerssory connectors and storage capabilities also fall under this "just because" category.
I have to address this: The gear indicator thing is more of an annoyance and an indignance than it is about need. it's such a simple basic piece of tech that is available on even $5000 bikes. the Versys 1000 was a $16000 bike with gobs of features and technology and it's like they just forgot to add a gear indicator. I did some looking and it seems like everybody just adds aftermarket ones, but seriously, if i pay that much for a modern motorcycle things like that just shouldn't be overlooked. It's like a common courtesy.VLJ_imp said:
basically, it's not about need i just found it annoying, and i tend not to spend my money on annoying. i'm not saying it disqualifies a versys entirely, i'm just saying....points against.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Based on your wish list, I still think R1200RT, ST1300 or FJR1300 fits the bill nicely. Each for around $6000-$7000 for a clean, low mileage, pre-owned example.
misterprofessionality
Road warrior
Thread starter
i don't think you're wrong about those bikes being right for me but i haven't found any examples of what you're talking about. FJR1300's rarely show themselves at all, let alone below 7k (that's how you know it's good, people keep them). ST1300's seem great but always show up with over 30k miles on them. R1200RT's are ok but at low mileage are still going for over 10k, while the ones that i find for under 7k are again very high mileage or very very old. I would look closely at any one of those bikes that presents in my price range, I just haven't seen one yet. That was what led me to the concours initially..the fact that they seem to be readily available.
Charlie Bravo_imp
Road warrior
I use the CB as a city bike, and my Bmr for most anything that requires freeway travel. I checked out Connies several years ago, but decided it was too big for me, then had a Yami FJR1200 for a while, also big. The Bmr is big, but I guess the years has put some mass on me, too, so I'm used to it now.
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