No clutch shifting

[Mixagon_imp]

Just been reading the clutch lever post and it got me wondering about an old subject which may have been discussed on here or not so here goes..

How many of you change gear without using the clutch ?

I've been doing it for years on the upshifts which is so easy and smooth and sometimes do it on the downshifts if conditions are right but not very often.

 

[Houtman_imp]

I ALWAYS use the clutch !

 

[peterbaron]

^^+1^^

 

[dave]

Why would you not use the clutch?

 

[the Ferret]

another clutch lever user here, on every shift up or down

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

(+1) Use clutch, however, there have been numerous times I geared down without the clutch and without incident.

 

[Mixagon_imp]

Why would you not use the clutch?

Well yes that's what it is there for

Maybe its from days gone in the race world UK when riders could save time by shifting without the clutch so all the street guys learned the skill to be cool.
To be honest its a skill that has saved me many times in the past when a clutch cable breaks and I've rode home without a clutch otherwise I would have been stranded. I've even drove 120 miles home in a 72 Ford Cortina with a broken clutch cable. More challenging than a bike but its possible, of course if your timing is bad and you have to stop you have to start moving again in first gear with the starter motor.

Re bikes though its so easy changing up that it sometimes feels pointless using the clutch. Been doing this for over fifty years and never had any gearbox problems.

 

[jimgl3_imp]

I use the clutch to start and stop and that's it. All gear shifting is clutchless, unless I'm out of sorts and need the clutch...

 

[the Ferret]

I'm not so sure that you can shift quicker without the clutch than with. You have to back off the throttle, and move the shift lever to make a clutch-less shift don't you?

From an article I just read on shifting: How to shift gears on a motorcycle - RevZilla

"Clutchless shifting
You know how we said the clutch acts to disengage the crankshaft from the transmission to unload the gears and allow them to shift positions? Well that same unloading effect can be achieved by quickly and briefly rolling the gas off and then back on again. In that instant right after you air the throttle, the transmission is unloaded. If you time your upshift to coincide with that momentary unloading of the transmission, the bike can be shifted up up into the next gear. No clutch required. "

In that same time it takes to roll the throttle off and back on you could fan the clutch blade and make the shift without even rolling off the throttle if desired.

Now the new speed shifters you shift without backing off the throttle so they are quicker than an old time clutch-less shift I would think, with less risk of damage to the trans

That said, I just don't see the point of either method for riding on the street. Maybe on a race track where tenths of a second matter.

Oh and the DCT trans is even quicker at shifting yet, all controlled by computer, quickly and seamlessly with no possible damage to any transmission parts

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

... yeah, even if you manually shift a Honda dual clutch transmission, I don't think Honda software will allow any excessive or "bad timing" of the shift convert to mechanical trauma. This is quite cool.

 

[Haggard Rider_imp]

I do both clutchless up and down shifts, not all the time though. Find clutchless upshifts, especially when driving 'progressively', better than the ham-fisted efforts I sometimes make and at lower speeds they can be very smooth indeed.

 

[BestStandard_imp]

^^+1^^ l learned about clutchless shifts while working summers at a Honda shop in the early 70s... always thought it was a normal thing that everyone does.

 

[emptysea]

I clutchless shift at least 2-3 times per ride.... not on purpose, though.

 

[cj599_imp]

i do all the time grew up on dirtbikes so seems naturel to me

 

[the Ferret]

and this is why I don't buy used bikes.

 

[cj599_imp]

and this is why I don't buy used bikes.

what do you find wrong with clutch less if done right its just as safe as using most honda trans are devolved in a racing atmosphere you think in moto gp they granny shift?

 

[Houtman_imp]

"if done right " is the key !

 

[the Ferret]

I think they put clutches on motorcycles that are meant to be used when shifting. I dont trust that everyone knows exactly what they are doing on every clutch less shift and transmissions are easily damaged, worn dogs, chipped teeth. I'd just prefer not to buy a bike that may have been treated that way.

I think in MotoGp they use transmissions called seamless gearboxes that are specifically designed for clutch less shifting at full throttle.

There are some ( but not all) street motorcycles which have factory quick shifters on which you can upshift but not down shift without a clutch, and some are designed to upshift and downshift without the clutch, but the CB 1100 is neither of those.

 

[cj599_imp]

Moto gp in the 1980s use the same style trans as we have, a test drive tells you if their is a issue with the dawgs by the way in goes into gear if it feels unsure theirs probably a issue
I also have experience driving over the road trucks so thats just what i do

 

[BestStandard_imp]

Ask MO Anything: What? No-Clutch Shifting?

An old Honda trained mechanic taught me the ways of clutchless shifting long long ago in a town not that far away. Very wise and strong with the force was he. RELTS were standard equipment back then... so maybe they are required.