My quest to find a better bike

[Hovmod_imp]

So this is the second season on a CB1100RS, and I’m so impressed.
It’s just so much fun to ride, I have very few issues with it. I’ve put about 5,500km on it so far this year, and hopefully many more. It eats road.

So I’ve decided this is a good place to start window shopping from, as there’s no rush. I can try other bikes in peace, and happily ride home to think about things. If I find something that blows my mind, I can undistractedly think things through.

So far this year I’ve tried these bikes:
Moto Guzzi V85TT
BMW R1200R
HD Livewire
HD Pan America
Ducati Supersport S 950

The Ducati literally knocked me out. My lower back couldn’t take the beating. This is my third day on the couch. So no more of those racing stance bikes. I need to sit more upright. I still have a 1992 900SS, but after this ride on its (totally gorgeous and maniacally hilarious) modern iteration, I’m just selling it as is. No more bikes where I have to lean on my wrists. I’m not giving up on Ducati, though. Once my back is ok again, I’m trying the 950 Multistrada.

The Guzzi was weird. It’s a GS type adventure affair, with a rev-adverse 850 twin. I had trouble keeping it under the redline, and tbh it wasn’t that torque-y either. If you don’t want me to give it even medium high revs, there should be a delicious push as you shift up. Lacking in power AND looking a bit wonky, I was almost relieved to not fall in love with it. Some great details, though, and I know many people will love it.

I’ve had BMWs before, but the R1200R disappointed me. First, the wind shield was in the worst possible place, my head was right where the worst turbulence happened. Most noisy ride ever. I know this can be fixed, but still. Second, I don’t know, it just didn’t spark joy.

Spark Joy could have been the name for Harley Davidson’s electric bike: the Livewire. I have NEVER had this much fun. This bike deserves more attention than it’s getting. It handled like an R6, it has a throttle (can I still say throttle if it’s a potmeter?) response like nothing I’ve ever sat on. I found SPORT mode and laughed out loud in the helmet. My right hand controlled everything: a twist and it goes, with a low hum that wind noise quicky defeats, and if you twist hard, you go fast. Immediately. Max torque from any speed, instantly. 0-100 in less than 3, but also 80-130. Twist, go. The engine even brakes nicely. If you roll off the throttle, you slow down. This was surprisingly intuitive and meant I hardly used the brakes. They were good too, although there was an ABS like vibration every time. Maybe because I didn’t use the brake unless it was very necessary.. I absolutely fell in love with the Livewire, and if I had a daily commute, I’d consider it. I often go far, and of course charging for four hours plus is ridiculous if you’re on a ride with buddies.
But mad points to HD for this thing: not only for being the first major player with an electric, but for getting it so ridiculously right!
I would lose my licence within a week of getting it, though. It sparks joy, and nothing about it inspires restraint. I would always go way too fast on it.
Also, it’s too expensive. Really.


Part 2 of this post is below.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I would consider window shopping a Pan-Am.

 

[Hovmod_imp]

Here’s the second part of my post. Sorry about the mess.
I was equally surprised and impressed by the Pan America. Harley Davidson has managed to make a full blown, bona fide adventure bike without making a BMW GS copy, which apparently isn’t that easy. Ask Triumph or Ducati or KTM or Honda or Royal Enfield or …..
The Pan America is just a bit too tall for me with my short legs, but there’s a version which lowers itself 5cm at low speeds, sounds like the one I need. Once on it, EVERYTHING seemed right. The engine is new, and it is magnificent! There’s low end torque, snd then it just smoothly delivers throughout its range, with an extra little almost Japanese extra hit of juice as you approach the red line at 9000 or so. The noise from it is completely awesome, a low, insisting growl that inspires, yet restrained enough to not piss off your neighbours. It sounded almost more like a Ducati, you know, a big bore twin which has actually been properly assembled.
The seating position was perfect for me, with the only little nitpick that my left knee touched what I’m assuming is a coil or something spark plug related, and I’d be worried about disrupting that when the riding requires leg input. Everything else, perhaps minus the headlight and fairing design, blew me away. I took the exact same route as I did on the Livewire, and several times I thought that I don’t ever want to get off. I thought «this is the best motorcycle I have ever ridden!» a couple times. I waved at a group of GSes at a gas station, causing quite a commotion, as they pointed and waved and there’s obviously a buzz about this bike now. I found the Pan America to be nimble and predictable in turns and corners, I felt a confidence riding it that I certainly never got from any Harley before, and the wind shield was perfect. It took the wind off my chest but left my head above the turbulence. I could ride this for twelve hours a day for weeks. It is so good. It has serious power as well as serious riding aids, I wouldn’t hesitate to ride this from Kirkenes to Cape Town.
Minuses: It’s a HD, for better and worse. It’s made in the US, for better and worse. It’s huge, and even though that’s some times good, it’s also some times not so good. That connector I hit with my knee. It’s expensive (even though it’s less that the top models of BMW and Ducati), and it’s impossible to get one before October, so if I decide to get one it won’t be on the road in 2021.
But people: I really fell hard for the PA. One of the best motorcycles I have ever ridden, and the only one of the ones I’ve tried so far to stay on my short list.

The main thing with the CB that may cause me to switch is that it’s naked. I chose that consciously, not only because it just looks better, but because it makes me ride slower. Actually, the right way to say that is that it starts being fun at lower speeds, which is great. However, the previous weekend I ended the day by riding for a few hours at speed on a motorway with high winds, and it wore me out. I was so exhausted, I dropped the RS as I was parking it. No juice left to hold back. So as I’m getting older and develop new aches and pains, I might have to make some adjustments. I need a wind shield. A good one.

The next bikes I’m looking at, once my back is good enough, are two bikes in the Sport Touring segment. I don’t do that much riding on dirt roads (I did a lot more of it when I had the R65GS, so a PA isn’t wasted), so perhaps what I need is a bike made for faraway twisties? I’m talking about the BMW S1000XR and the STUNNING MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800 Lusso SCS. I’m having trouble finding a dealer who will let me try the MV Agusta, but it certainly looks like they’ve managed to take a sports bike and make a thing of beauty that you want to take for loooong rides. I’m trying the BMW mostly to see if that type of bike is what I want. The CB1100RS has a bit of racing in its DNA, but not as much as the XR and the MV, of course. Maybe I don’t want 165 hp if it makes the seat vibrate. Maybe I don’t want Italian design if it means I start obsessing over dirt. I don’t know. What I DO know is that after each and every test ride I’ve described above, riding the CB1100 home was never disappointing. I would almost say that it is a surprisingly good motorcycle, and that I know I will miss it if I trade it, so I’d better get it right if I decide to go through with it.

Stay tuned.
Tormod

 

[Stichill]

I always think of motorcycles as analogous to tools. In order to chose the tool, you have to first define the task. Some motorcycles are better at being a Leatherman than others which are more specialized.

 

[Hovmod_imp]

I always think of motorcycles as analogous to tools. In order to chose the tool, you have to first define the task. Some motorcycles are better at being a Leatherman than others which are more specialized.

I like that analogy, and that’s one reason this is difficult. The task isn’t well defined. The task depends on the tool, too. If I just keep the CB, I will eliminate as much motorway as I can from future rides, but I know there’s going to be *some*. Same with dirt roads and trails. I can manage some on the Honda, but if I had a GS or PA, I’d *find* a lot more of those.

I don’t really want a Leatherman either, you’d never pick the Leatherman over a knife or a screw driver. I want a bike that I always *prefer*.

 

[misterprofessionality]

After trying and riding and shopping a lot of bikes over the last few years I've become convinced that absolutely no dinosaur-powered bike is ever going to live up to my CB. The only potential for something "better" remains in the unexplored realm of electric bikes. Im not at all interested in a live wire...but a Zero Sr/F? I feel it may be dangerous for me to test ride one of those.

 

[VLJ_imp]

The Livewire absolutely does not handle like an R6.

:dodgy:

 

[pekingduck]

Hovmod, thanks for the descriptive ride reports, especially on the two H-D models. They do sound so far removed from our simple CB1100s, though that has an appeal too.

 

[Hovmod_imp]

After trying and riding and shopping a lot of bikes over the last few years I've become convinced that absolutely no dinosaur-powered bike is ever going to live up to my CB. The only potential for something "better" remains in the unexplored realm of electric bikes. Im not at all interested in a live wire...but a Zero Sr/F? I feel it may be dangerous for me to test ride one of those.

I agree to a point.
I read somewhere that many of the major brands, Honda included, are looking into making an infrastructure of interchangable batteries, where you simply pull out your spent pack and plug in a fresh one, with enough stations that you’re always within reach of one. I have a Zero in my sights too, but if this replaceable battery idea catches on, I *really* don’t want to be stuck with a bike with fixed batteries. If I can take an electric bike touring without holding the group back with five hour charging breaks, that’s a game changer, and I’m in.

Your complete absence of interest for a Livewire suggests you’ve never tried it. It is the most fun I have ever had. I’m not saying you should change your mind, I’m not buying one either, but man, that’s a mindblowing ride!

The Livewire absolutely does not handle like an R6.

:dodgy:

I should confess that I haven’t been on an R6 for more than a few hours more than ten years ago, so I have no problem retracting that statement.
What I wanted to say was that the Livewire handles surprisingly well, and I felt a confidence cornering that I only ever felt on an R6.

 

[misterprofessionality]

Im not saying it's not fun. It's the price. Theres such a thing as a ceiling on value, and no motorcycle is worth that much. 30k for any motorcycle is just grotesque. Many will argue with me, but its a financial perspective more than anything. This is doubly true for an electric bike whose batteries will fail or need replacement within 5 to 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that the zero srf premium is better on range, better on speed, better on weight, better on brakes, better on charging, and way way better on price... you begin to see why I have no interest in a livewire. The value statement just isn't there. It's outperformed and outpaced in every single category.

 

[Hovmod_imp]

Hovmod, thanks for the descriptive ride reports, especially on the two H-D models. They do sound so far removed from our simple CB1100s, though that has an appeal too.

The CB1100 is so good.
Like I said, it just keeps getting better by comparing other bikes.
This is why I’m not trying any other bikes in the naked litre segment, even though those are often the bikes that appeal the most to me. I *have* that, and a Ducati Monster or a NineT Scrambler or a V7 Bobber or any variety of retro informed, strong, naked bike can’t bring anything that I’m missing on the Honda. So they have to be different from it. They have to bring something to the table that the CB doesn’t do. Like dirt roads or track days, or fairings and wind shielding. Or electric motors. Or just being Italian.

Im not saying it's not fun. It's the price. Theres such a thing as a ceiling on value, and no motorcycle is worth that much. 30k for any motorcycle is just grotesque. Many will argue with me, but its a financial perspective more than anything. This is doubly true for an electric bike whose batteries will fail or need replacement within 5 to 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that the zero srf premium is better on range, better on speed, better on weight, better on brakes, better on charging, and way way better on price... you begin to see why I have no interest in a livewire. The value statement just isn't there. It's outperformed and outpaced in every single category.

I agree.
I also didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.
I haven’t found a dealer that will let me test a Zero either, and I’m not buying anything I havent tried.

 

[misterprofessionality]

Hovmod, thanks for the descriptive ride reports, especially on the two H-D models. They do sound so far removed from our simple CB1100s, though that has an appeal too.

The CB1100 is so good.
Like I said, it just keeps getting better by comparing other bikes.
This is why I’m not trying any other bikes in the naked litre segment, even though those are often the bikes that appeal the most to me. I *have* that, and a Ducati Monster or a NineT Scrambler or a V7 Bobber or any variety of retro informed, strong, naked bike can’t bring anything that I’m missing on the Honda. So they have to be different from it. They have to bring something to the table that the CB doesn’t do. Like dirt roads or track days, or fairings and wind shielding. Or electric motors. Or just being Italian.

Im not saying it's not fun. It's the price. Theres such a thing as a ceiling on value, and no motorcycle is worth that much. 30k for any motorcycle is just grotesque. Many will argue with me, but its a financial perspective more than anything. This is doubly true for an electric bike whose batteries will fail or need replacement within 5 to 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that the zero srf premium is better on range, better on speed, better on weight, better on brakes, better on charging, and way way better on price... you begin to see why I have no interest in a livewire. The value statement just isn't there. It's outperformed and outpaced in every single category.

I agree.
I also didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.
I haven’t found a dealer that will let me test a Zero either, and I’m not buying anything I havent tried.

I have noticed this too. That is the great trouble//great fortune of the zero brand. You can't try them out, but that may be a good thing because trying them out could lead to a very very irresponsible purchase :rofl:

 

[Gone in 60]

Huh. If you even peek through the window at the Zero dealership near my house, they'll slap a helmet on you and send you on a test ride. They are very competent bikes, but I'm not ready to spend that much on any motorcycle. I'm cheap.

 

[Mixagon_imp]

Have you thought about the Yamaha FJR 1300 ?

Shaft drive, electric screen, more power than you need and comfortable riding position.

I've owned 2 and they are the bikes I miss more than any other I've sold, I think Ferret could be missing his to.

 

[Frulk_imp]

I don’t believe the Live Wire is on the market for sale currently

 

[Stichill]

I know you guys are all about the air cooling, but I wouldn't mind a liquid-cooled CB750 styled retro (not neo-retro) with a smaller, lighter engine weighing overall 100 lbs / 45 kg less than a CB1100.

 

[Dude_imp]

Maybe the newer ninja 1000sx? Very similar ergos to the cb albeit it is completely faired. LED lights, Cruise control, traction control, the whole nine yards for 12k new. 140hp or so. Simple maintenance, brilliant design for the chain adjustment, can easily be adjusted <1 minute. The only thing it doesn't have is a center stand.

I know you guys are all about the air cooling, but I wouldn't mind a liquid-cooled CB750 styled retro (not neo-retro) with a smaller, lighter engine weighing overall 100 lbs / 45 kg less than a CB1100.

100% will buy that bike on the spot lol. I have been patiently awaiting a newer CBX straight 6. Honda has a patent out for it here recently.

 

[Henrik_imp]

I am a bit surprised by your experience on the Ducati Supersport as I found it to be particularly comfortable. Sure, you are leaning more forwards than on the CB, but the clip-ons are sufficiently raised in my opinion to make it perfect at speed. I loved it and was set on getting one as a companion to my CB.

However, I have also tried a large number of alternatives. Another bike I really enjoyed was the R1250RS which was near perfect. The problem was I do not really like the looks much, but it was great while riding it. In the end, I figured I would probably be riding way too fast on it as it was just that competent.

In the end, I found my perfect second partner, and I would recommend you have a test. My new Triumph Scrambler 1200XC really ticked all the boxes. It looks fabulous, with the classic bike looks and a very convincing liquid cooling that still makes it appear as an air-cooled bike. The engine is amazing, with the right amount of torque all the time, and it makes for a nice addition to have a twin to accompany the lovely 4IL of the CB. The riding position is great, and I can finally stretch my legs a bit. And if you want to, you can even take it off-road a bit.

As for electric bikes, well I do like them but the cost is just prohibitive today.

 

[Roper_imp]

Or, you can get a side x side UTV for all the trails you want to ride, put a street legal kit on it so that you can drive to the trails, and take your significant other with you! I'm partial to CanAm

 

[michael1954]

Here’s the second part of my post. Sorry about the mess.
I was equally surprised and impressed by the Pan America. Harley Davidson has managed to make a full blown, bona fide adventure bike without making a BMW GS copy, which apparently isn’t that easy. Ask Triumph or Ducati or KTM or Honda or Royal Enfield or …..
The Pan America is just a bit too tall for me with my short legs, but there’s a version which lowers itself 5cm at low speeds, sounds like the one I need. Once on it, EVERYTHING seemed right. The engine is new, and it is magnificent! There’s low end torque, snd then it just smoothly delivers throughout its range, with an extra little almost Japanese extra hit of juice as you approach the red line at 9000 or so. The noise from it is completely awesome, a low, insisting growl that inspires, yet restrained enough to not piss off your neighbours. It sounded almost more like a Ducati, you know, a big bore twin which has actually been properly assembled.
The seating position was perfect for me, with the only little nitpick that my left knee touched what I’m assuming is a coil or something spark plug related, and I’d be worried about disrupting that when the riding requires leg input. Everything else, perhaps minus the headlight and fairing design, blew me away. I took the exact same route as I did on the Livewire, and several times I thought that I don’t ever want to get off. I thought «this is the best motorcycle I have ever ridden!» a couple times. I waved at a group of GSes at a gas station, causing quite a commotion, as they pointed and waved and there’s obviously a buzz about this bike now. I found the Pan America to be nimble and predictable in turns and corners, I felt a confidence riding it that I certainly never got from any Harley before, and the wind shield was perfect. It took the wind off my chest but left my head above the turbulence. I could ride this for twelve hours a day for weeks. It is so good. It has serious power as well as serious riding aids, I wouldn’t hesitate to ride this from Kirkenes to Cape Town.
Minuses: It’s a HD, for better and worse. It’s made in the US, for better and worse. It’s huge, and even though that’s some times good, it’s also some times not so good. That connector I hit with my knee. It’s expensive (even though it’s less that the top models of BMW and Ducati), and it’s impossible to get one before October, so if I decide to get one it won’t be on the road in 2021.
But people: I really fell hard for the PA. One of the best motorcycles I have ever ridden, and the only one of the ones I’ve tried so far to stay on my short list.

The main thing with the CB that may cause me to switch is that it’s naked. I chose that consciously, not only because it just looks better, but because it makes me ride slower. Actually, the right way to say that is that it starts being fun at lower speeds, which is great. However, the previous weekend I ended the day by riding for a few hours at speed on a motorway with high winds, and it wore me out. I was so exhausted, I dropped the RS as I was parking it. No juice left to hold back. So as I’m getting older and develop new aches and pains, I might have to make some adjustments. I need a wind shield. A good one.

The next bikes I’m looking at, once my back is good enough, are two bikes in the Sport Touring segment. I don’t do that much riding on dirt roads (I did a lot more of it when I had the R65GS, so a PA isn’t wasted), so perhaps what I need is a bike made for faraway twisties? I’m talking about the BMW S1000XR and the STUNNING MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800 Lusso SCS. I’m having trouble finding a dealer who will let me try the MV Agusta, but it certainly looks like they’ve managed to take a sports bike and make a thing of beauty that you want to take for loooong rides. I’m trying the BMW mostly to see if that type of bike is what I want. The CB1100RS has a bit of racing in its DNA, but not as much as the XR and the MV, of course. Maybe I don’t want 165 hp if it makes the seat vibrate. Maybe I don’t want Italian design if it means I start obsessing over dirt. I don’t know. What I DO know is that after each and every test ride I’ve described above, riding the CB1100 home was never disappointing. I would almost say that it is a surprisingly good motorcycle, and that I know I will miss it if I trade it, so I’d better get it right if I decide to go through with it.

Stay tuned.
Tormod

I put a National Cycle Street Shield on my EX, and just bought one for my DLX. I do not care that some say it takes away from the looks of the bike, I do not like riding in the strong winds that are here about half the year in south Texas. It definitely has kept me from being as tired as I used to get. And it is small enough, the bike still looks good. I will keep my Z900RS with out one to ride with the wind when I want to.