the Ferret
Road warrior
Would this be with the key on engine running, key on engine not running, or key off?Charlie Bravo_imp said:
hey Charlie...update?
CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
- Thread starter ericlo69_imp
- Start date
hey Charlie...update?
George050994_imp
First service completed
Hello, well I might be late to the party but let me add my bike to the endless list of idle and stalling issues.
It's a 2013 model and it's happening on traffic and when the engine has been running for more than 35 minutes. I'm getting low RPM and stalling.
I'm looking forward to change the IACV
It's a 2013 model and it's happening on traffic and when the engine has been running for more than 35 minutes. I'm getting low RPM and stalling.
I'm looking forward to change the IACV
1973cb750
Been there
change to the updated ecu from honda i believe thats the real fix theirs different firmware in that ecu for idle parametersGeorge050994_imp said:
ecu a24 i bet you have a23
George050994_imp
First service completed
change to the updated ecu from honda i believe thats the real fix theirs different firmware in that ecu for idle parameters1973cb750_imp said:
ecu a24 i bet you have a23
You mean buy a new ECU from partzilla or revzilla or update my current ECU?
Well I'm gonna have a real problem with that as I just called my Honda dealership and they don't even know how to do that (3rd world country problem)
How do I know which firmware do I have? Is there any way I can update this in my own?
1973cb750
Been there
change to the updated ecu from honda i believe thats the real fix theirs different firmware in that ecu for idle parametersGeorge050994_imp said:
ecu a24 i bet you have a23
You mean buy a new ECU from partzilla or revzilla or update my current ECU?
Well I'm gonna have a real problem with that as I just called my Honda dealership and they don't even know how to do that (3rd world country problem)
How do I know which firmware do I have? Is there any way I can update this in my own?
i can flash ecu's but not firmware and yes purchasing a new a24 i believe in my opinion is the only real fix for the idle issue on the 13's
your ecu will say a23 or a24 a24 is the updated what country are you in
https://www.discounthondaparts.com/oemparts/p/honda/38770-mgc-a24/pgm-fi-unit
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
George050994_imp said:
When it stalls- can you start it right back up? And if you accelerate- does it seem to ride correctly?
Nachodaddy
Road warrior
George, sorry I didn't see this earlier. I had the same problem with my 2013 and you may have already read my posts about it.
Order a new ECU (It's actually a PGM-FI Unit,part number 38770-MGC-A24).
Partzilla has the best price at about $500USD.
You can install it yourself. I did mine and it is not difficult. It lies under the fuel tank, so you'll want to run all your fuel out first.
I wasted about $700 getting a new IACV and having it installed with absolutely NO change in the problem.
Mine started with the low idle problem for a few weeks and then it went to the high idle. I tried a few things that worked briefly, but, since I installed the new ECU, it runs great.
Best wishes for a speedy and uneventful recovery.
George, a note to help you ride safely until you get this fixed. You can disconnect the Throttle Position Sensor on the side of the engine under your left knee. It is easy to disconnect and will make the "Check Engine" light on the dash come on, but your bike will run fine and not be a safety hazard this way. It is NOT a fix, but it should stop the stalling and erratic running.
Order a new ECU (It's actually a PGM-FI Unit,part number 38770-MGC-A24).
Partzilla has the best price at about $500USD.
You can install it yourself. I did mine and it is not difficult. It lies under the fuel tank, so you'll want to run all your fuel out first.
I wasted about $700 getting a new IACV and having it installed with absolutely NO change in the problem.
Mine started with the low idle problem for a few weeks and then it went to the high idle. I tried a few things that worked briefly, but, since I installed the new ECU, it runs great.
Best wishes for a speedy and uneventful recovery.
George, a note to help you ride safely until you get this fixed. You can disconnect the Throttle Position Sensor on the side of the engine under your left knee. It is easy to disconnect and will make the "Check Engine" light on the dash come on, but your bike will run fine and not be a safety hazard this way. It is NOT a fix, but it should stop the stalling and erratic running.
George050994_imp
First service completed
change to the updated ecu from honda i believe thats the real fix theirs different firmware in that ecu for idle parameters1973cb750_imp said:
ecu a24 i bet you have a23
You mean buy a new ECU from partzilla or revzilla or update my current ECU?
Well I'm gonna have a real problem with that as I just called my Honda dealership and they don't even know how to do that (3rd world country problem)
How do I know which firmware do I have? Is there any way I can update this in my own?
i can flash ecu's but not firmware and yes purchasing a new a24 i believe in my opinion is the only real fix for the idle issue on the 13's
your ecu will say a23 or a24 a24 is the updated what country are you in
https://www.discounthondaparts.com/oemparts/p/honda/38770-mgc-a24/pgm-fi-unit
Thank you all for taking interest on this :celebrate:
So I just checked my ECU below the tank gas and it says A23 so you were right. I'm in El Salvador.
PowerDubs_imp said:
When it stalls- can you start it right back up? And if you accelerate- does it seem to ride correctly?
Yes I mean when it stalls I can turn it back on and if I accelerate the bike runs completely fine it's just in traffic I'm having this issue whenever I hit the highway bike runs good
Im kind of surprised the problem is now the ECU, I took 4 days to read all of this thread and I was 100% positive the problem would the IACV. But now this has caught my attention with the a24 ECU update.Nachodaddy_imp said:
I'm so sorry to hear that the IACV didn't work for you we are not talking about some cheap stuff.
Its not my first time ordering stuff from partzilla my brother also orders some OEM items for his Kawasaki police, however I was not ready to invest $500 in a new ECU it'll take some time for me to get it
1973cb750
Been there
change to the updated ecu from honda i believe thats the real fix theirs different firmware in that ecu for idle parametersGeorge050994_imp said:
ecu a24 i bet you have a23
You mean buy a new ECU from partzilla or revzilla or update my current ECU?
Well I'm gonna have a real problem with that as I just called my Honda dealership and they don't even know how to do that (3rd world country problem)
How do I know which firmware do I have? Is there any way I can update this in my own?
i can flash ecu's but not firmware and yes purchasing a new a24 i believe in my opinion is the only real fix for the idle issue on the 13's
your ecu will say a23 or a24 a24 is the updated what country are you in
https://www.discounthondaparts.com/oemparts/p/honda/38770-mgc-a24/pgm-fi-unit
Thank you all for taking interest on this :celebrate:
So I just checked my ECU below the tank gas and it says A23 so you were right. I'm in El Salvador.
PowerDubs_imp said:
When it stalls- can you start it right back up? And if you accelerate- does it seem to ride correctly?
Yes I mean when it stalls I can turn it back on and if I accelerate the bike runs completely fine it's just in traffic I'm having this issue whenever I hit the highway bike runs good
Im kind of surprised the problem is now the ECU, I took 4 days to read all of this thread and I was 100% positive the problem would the IACV. But now this has caught my attention with the a24 ECU update.Nachodaddy_imp said:
I'm so sorry to hear that the IACV didn't work for you we are not talking about some cheap stuff.
Its not my first time ordering stuff from partzilla my brother also orders some OEM items for his Kawasaki police, however I was not ready to invest $500 in a new ECU it'll take some time for me to get it
i have a 14 but i have flashed a good amount of ecu's and the only idle issues i have seen are always a23 ecu's and the 14 a42 but not many of those
Enzofour_imp
Running like a top
It's been 2.5 years since I replaced the IACV on my 2014EX and I've had no more low idle issues.
Would one of our experts likely to offer an opinion about whether it is likely there is more than one cause of this problem?
1973cb750
Been there
I'm not saying ECU is only colprit but 75% of time probably is doesn't mead other things like the iac don't fail too but if it's the a23 theirs a good chance that's the problemCormanus_imp said:
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Sounds like a fair empirical data point.Enzofour_imp said:
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
Cormanus,
It seems like at first changing the IACV fixed the majority of problems although we could never find a real reason the IACV wasn't working properly. Then we found out that there was a software fix in Europe that Honda North America refused to admit existed but cured problems in Europe. Then the A24 ECU pops up and is fixing problems and is, pretty much no doubt, programmed with the new software or an internal hardware improvement.
Honda has not been any help on this, but my opinion is it is either the ECU or IACV and is hard to tell exactly which is the bad actor. Pay your money and take your chances I guess. But first reseat/clean all connectors, etc. Basic stuff first.
Max, Powerdubs, and SportsterDoc may have more input.
It seems like at first changing the IACV fixed the majority of problems although we could never find a real reason the IACV wasn't working properly. Then we found out that there was a software fix in Europe that Honda North America refused to admit existed but cured problems in Europe. Then the A24 ECU pops up and is fixing problems and is, pretty much no doubt, programmed with the new software or an internal hardware improvement.
Honda has not been any help on this, but my opinion is it is either the ECU or IACV and is hard to tell exactly which is the bad actor. Pay your money and take your chances I guess. But first reseat/clean all connectors, etc. Basic stuff first.
Max, Powerdubs, and SportsterDoc may have more input.
peterbaron
Road warrior
.....generally speaking many but not all electrical problems are related to poor contact or resetting electronic modules such as ECU, TCU, ABS/ESC/TC, 4/AWD+++... and the person working on his/her bike/car before replacing a possibly "bad" component must disconnect some related and unrelated electrical connectors that had poor contact, unknowingly fixing a "poor contact problem" and thinking it was a component...it can be tricky and confusing.
We are fortunate that motorcycles are not as complicated as cars which have many more e-modules, C low-high-M-P-D-K CAN network where one poor contact or failed component can set up multiple DTCs preventing some e-modules from communicating during initial diagnosis, causing errors and confusion.
We are fortunate that motorcycles are not as complicated as cars which have many more e-modules, C low-high-M-P-D-K CAN network where one poor contact or failed component can set up multiple DTCs preventing some e-modules from communicating during initial diagnosis, causing errors and confusion.
Nachodaddy
Road warrior
Lord Popgun has summarized it very nicely. What convinced me to take the plunge and replace the ECU was the post from a Forum member in South Korea with the problem and, when he took it to the dealer, they changed the ECU and it solved his problem. Since I had already thrown good money at the IACV, this would be my last straw. If that didn't work I was getting rid of the bike.
Happy to say, it did work. I hope it is the answer for others with the problem.
Happy to say, it did work. I hope it is the answer for others with the problem.
max
Road warrior
Have been quiet since there was a good set of advice available from different members and too many cooks spoil the broth.
But Cormanus asked for our opinion so here it is;
Popgun and all have been trying to get to the best solution we can come up with, none of us have this issue so we had to rely on others reporting and finding a way to solve this issue, the first fix from the dealer was to replace the entire throttle body, we then thought that just replacing the iacv was a better solution and it worked for several members, international members had their ecu updated by the dealer and permanently fixed the problem but the us has not made this option available.
Recently the ecu replacement has had the desired effect, the fact that the majority of faults have been in the 2014 models points straight to the ecu.
But another point started to take shape in my opinion; one thing that also happens when replacing the iacv is that the battery is disconnected for some time which made me wonder;
Is it possible that the ecu has reset itself to an original state as if it has left the factory by disconnecting the battery which discharged the capacitors inside the ecu which also supply some part of the memory....................................
Keeping in mind that the ecu has performed fine until the issue started.
Because i have no practical experience with these cpu resets i asked Peter B ( who does have some experience professionally ) in a recent email and he responded that it is a POSSIBILITY in some ecu's.
So has the replacement of the iacv whilst disconnecting the battery ( which could be the key operation ) fixed this??
I think it is at least worth trying to disconnect the NEGATIVE terminal of the battery AND connecting it to the still connected positive terminal ( perfectly safe to do it this way ) thereby discharging the ecu capacitors for an hour or so and see if doing so changes the behavior of the bike.
The ecu memory consumes a minuscule amount of power so it takes time to " sink " all electrons inside the ecu to ground and erase the memory.
So in conclusion the ecu which is now available does fix this problem @ 500.00 us but it may be worth investigating if the battery reset also works for no dollars for some period and then can be repeated if the situation requires it and helps other future members, at this stage we simply don't know!.
Not a short reply but worth a try i think,
up to you.
But Cormanus asked for our opinion so here it is;
Popgun and all have been trying to get to the best solution we can come up with, none of us have this issue so we had to rely on others reporting and finding a way to solve this issue, the first fix from the dealer was to replace the entire throttle body, we then thought that just replacing the iacv was a better solution and it worked for several members, international members had their ecu updated by the dealer and permanently fixed the problem but the us has not made this option available.
Recently the ecu replacement has had the desired effect, the fact that the majority of faults have been in the 2014 models points straight to the ecu.
But another point started to take shape in my opinion; one thing that also happens when replacing the iacv is that the battery is disconnected for some time which made me wonder;
Is it possible that the ecu has reset itself to an original state as if it has left the factory by disconnecting the battery which discharged the capacitors inside the ecu which also supply some part of the memory....................................
Keeping in mind that the ecu has performed fine until the issue started.
Because i have no practical experience with these cpu resets i asked Peter B ( who does have some experience professionally ) in a recent email and he responded that it is a POSSIBILITY in some ecu's.
So has the replacement of the iacv whilst disconnecting the battery ( which could be the key operation ) fixed this??
I think it is at least worth trying to disconnect the NEGATIVE terminal of the battery AND connecting it to the still connected positive terminal ( perfectly safe to do it this way ) thereby discharging the ecu capacitors for an hour or so and see if doing so changes the behavior of the bike.
The ecu memory consumes a minuscule amount of power so it takes time to " sink " all electrons inside the ecu to ground and erase the memory.
So in conclusion the ecu which is now available does fix this problem @ 500.00 us but it may be worth investigating if the battery reset also works for no dollars for some period and then can be repeated if the situation requires it and helps other future members, at this stage we simply don't know!.
Not a short reply but worth a try i think,
up to you.
Nachodaddy
Road warrior
Max, I did try that and it worked . . . for awhile. I was given the impression by some who know these things a lot better than I, that I was simply erasing a code and not fixing the problem that set the code. I would dis-connect my battery cables from the battery and connect them together for 15 minutes (or more) and then, when I reconnected the battery, the high idle was gone. But, after awhile, it would slowly start creeping back in. But, I was so excited about it, at first, that I was certain that was the solution. For someone who doesn't mind doing it, it will work and maybe for a longer time for someone.
:beerchug:
:beerchug:
Thank you gentlemen.
Enzofour_imp
Running like a top
Right after I replaced the IACV, the dealership uploaded a patch to my ECU that he'd gotten from Honda since 2014.Enzofour_imp said:
So I don't know which of the two fixed the problem.
