Bike Shut Off While Riding Today

[Johnny62087_imp]

Hello! :hello: I'm new to the forum, but not new to the CB100 or bikes in general. Been a long time lurker on this forum. I bought my 2014 EX new in 2014 and have never had a single issue until today.

*My "performance" mods*
Yoshimura Drag 4-1
Powercommander 5
TSR Filter Horn
TSR Velocity Stacks (The ones that are larger and replace the oem ones.)

The bike has ~7,500 miles and the mods have been on for about 6,500 of those miles.

So here's how it went. I haven't had the bike out for about a month, the battery wasn't completely flat, but didn't have enough juice to start. Threw it on the charger while I got ready and it fired up no problem. I jumped on and rode for about 45 minutes on my way to meet up with some friends. I was at a light and when it turned green and I took off the bike shut off. Struggled to restart, seemed to be running a cylinder down. Was smoking out the exhaust! :huh:

I got to a place where I could pull over and it died again. Got it to start and it was chugging and still smoking out the exhaust. No CEL, no nothing. I pulled the air filter out to see if there was oil inside and there was not. I thought maybe blow-by or something was the cause. My friends showed up and it fired right up and ran fine. Got to where we were going and it died and would not restart and the battery died.

Went and got my truck, got the bike home. Pulled the plugs, they look normal, slightly grey/black with a lighter colored center. And the best part is they're not clogged with aluminum so the engine doesn't seem to be grenading. Silver lining There seems to be fuel in the exhaust. I have the Yoshimura Drag setup and it was leaking out of the big single joint under the bike. I cranked the bike with the plugs out, the cylinders don't seem to be flooding. Reinstalled them, the bike fires up and runs/idles just fine. Tons of smoke rolling out the exhaust, both the end, and at the joints as the pipes and cat heat up. That was an hour ago, it's too late to be out in the barn, waking the neighbors.

I searched on here and on google and nothing like this came up. So here we are. Has anyone experienced something similar? Any tips on what to check? I'm obviously not going to ride for a while until I can correctly diagnose/recreate the culprit. No DTCs are showing up. I've had PCV's on other bikes and I've never had them lose a map or reset when the battery dies. I've never had that erratic idle problem. I'll have time this week to go out and check all the connectors, make sure everything is making good connection. I have a voltmeter so if there's something I can throw the leads on for more info I have no problem with that.

I did fall victim to that K&N filter shenanigans last summer. 0/10 would NOT recommend haha. My pants, boots, and the entire bike got COVERED in oil. The nut on the filter came completely off when I went over some railroad tracks. Immediately shut her down and coasted into a parking lot in neutral. Walked 5 miles home to get my truck and ramps. :dodgy:

And here is how she looks all cleaned up.

Thanks in advance! Hope someone can lend some advice.

 

[Cormanus]

G'day Johnny62087 and welcome. I'm glad you decided to out yourself, as it were, but sorry about the circumstances. I'm sure the resident diagnosticians will be right along with all sorts of helpful suggestions.

 

[RockHop_imp]

Smoking exhaust after sitting idle in the barn for a month?
A mouse nest seems likely.

Several years ago, I stopped at a gas station after a 15 minute ride on my previous Tiger 800 XC and noticed smoke coming from the exhaust. Went back home and removed the muffler and used a shop vac to flush air through it. There was a rattling sound inside and eventually a peanut fell out. Pretty strong circumstantial evidence.

It had only been about 2 days since I had ridden it, so the nest was probably fairly small. Bike was in the garage, but we were in the country and had battled mice periodically. Worst case was $800 repair when they chewed up the fuel injector wiring on my wife's 3 week old 4Runner.

Installed mouse blocker in our vehicles and it apparently works.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Good thinking by RockHop: Something flammable blocking/partially blocking the exhaust.

Also good to check the intake.

 

[Johnny62087_imp]

Thanks for the replies! I should have mentioned that it only smokes when it's running rough. And it definitely smells like fuel/oil when smoking. It's got a bluish/white tint. When and if it starts back up and runs smooth, the smoking goes away. When I got in my truck this morning I noticed where it had been sitting in the bed that it dripped fuel out of the bottom of the exhaust where there's a joint. Super weird. It's gotta be one of two things, over fueling, or it's cutting spark and flooding the cylinder.

 

[max]

Sorry to hear about the bike leaving you stranded, you sound like you are savvy enough with technology and probably solved the issue, you mention three things; intermittent, fuel rich and power commander.

Just to be sure i would test the charging system and see if the 14 volts are there when the bike runs, it's unlikely to fail but easy to check and eliminate.

having googled power commander fault yielded the following video on youtube and some other problems related to poor running, may be worth disconnecting and riding stock for eliminating purposes, his injectors stayed open;

Have a look at the comments too.

and this thread; power commander v failure

There are some more video's but this one has similar symptoms and the immediate problem is washing away the oil film from the cylinders.
Thanks for the many clues and description of what happened and showing proof of the k&n filter danger, very real!

 

[Johnny62087_imp]

Hey Max, thanks for that info! I watched that video and googled some others as well as read that forum thread.

I got a chance to mess with stuff tonight, but sadly I couldn't get the bike to replicate the problem again. Which is frustrating. I threw the battery on the charger over night. It was nice and fresh tonight when I went out there and put everything back together. Checked the charging voltage before I went out and after and it was 13.8-14.2 both times. So the charging system and voltage reg seem to be working fine. I was able to ride to town and back which is like a half hour. Did a mix of all kinds of riding. Casual, lugging gears, redlining. Everything seems fine. The only thing that has me worried is that this is a false sense of security and it'll strand me again lol as they usually do! Perhaps there was a connection loose somewhere, and feeling around and checking everything solved that problem. Maybe that battery wasn't charged enough when I left yesterday before all this started and the PCV couldn't work properly? I dunno for sure. Weird that something messed up so so bad yesterday that it was pouring smoke out. But not until I was almost an hour into my ride. Happy it seems to be fine for now. I will update if anything comes up again. For my sake and everyone else who may experience the same situation.

 

[max]

Johnny, just a thought; if this happens again can you unplug the pcv and restore it back to stock rather than get the trailer etc?

It is very unlikely the battery is at fault in this case, when it is able to start the engine before and after the event, the charging system would have brought it back to over 50% in that 45 minute ride.
This cb charges even when idling with the headlight on, i've measured this.

cheers.

 

[Johnny62087_imp]

Johnny, just a thought; if this happens again can you unplug the pcv and restore it back to stock rather than get the trailer etc?

It is very unlikely the battery is at fault in this case, when it is able to start the engine before and after the event, the charging system would have brought it back to over 50% in that 45 minute ride.
This cb charges even when idling with the headlight on, i've measured this.

cheers.

Lesson learned haha. I usually just keep some basic tools in there. Now I've got a cheap-o socket to get the tank off so I can disconnect the PCV in case it happens again.

 

[DBM_imp]

This is exactly why l will keep my bike stock and ride on. The engineers at Honda are way smarter than any of us.

 

[peterbaron]

This is exactly why l will keep my bike stock and ride on. The engineers at Honda are way smarter than any of us.

+1

 

[Houtman_imp]

I also keep my engine stock , the Honda engineers are smarter than all the Forum members put together !
I have made other improvements : suspension , seat , mirrors , foot pegs.

 

[pekingduck]

Here's another theory. I think the problem may be caused by the battery. Even though your problem happened after 45 minutes of riding, it showed up as you were idling at a light, probably with your hand or foot on the brake. This is the point where battery voltage is lowest, maybe just low enough.
If battery voltage drops too low, the fuel pump may not push fuel out at a high enough pressure for it to atomize fully, causing the accumulated fuel. Spark plugs nowadays run a lot hotter/whiter and shouldn't be grey at all.
If you have another occurrence like that, try opening the throttle fully while cranking for a few seconds. On Hondas, this shuts off the fuel pump to allow clearing a flooded engine.
I had a problem with my battery that had some similar symptoms. I keep a Battery Tender hooked up, but despite that, the bike wouldn't restart after riding 100 miles. No prior symptoms, but now it cranked slowly while sputtering a little. I managed to push start it, and it ran without incident and got me home.
When I got home, battery voltage was fine, mid/high 13s, and it would increase when revved. Replaced the battery as a precaution even though the bike was not even 4 years old.
Battery life of these sealed batteries is dependent on their initial charge. These original Yuasa YTZ batteries are factory filled and charged, so their life begins long before they meet up with your bike.
When a dealer receives a bike in a crate, they are supposed to check voltage and charge if necessary. Sometimes that doesn't happen, and battery life is compromised.
Nowadays, I keep one of those tiny lithium ion battery chargers in my riding jacket, and also one of the really tiny voltmeters that Battery Tender makes that plugs right into their cable.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Who tuned your engine? I don't see any mention of that, and no mention of an auto-tune box.

I can say that both the files on the dynojet site for a power commander DO NOT take into account the removal of the cat, DO NOT take into account the removal of the airbox snorkel, DO NOT take into account the larger velocity stacks.

From my dyno testing- I would not run even just a TSR airbox plate without adding fuel!!! Too lean!!

All the parts you have- and no specialized tuning is a recipe for disaster!!

I also disagree with you guys saying not to modify the engine as the engineers know best- the engineers work within restrictions the real world does not have. Intelligent thought out modifications can be done with no detriment.
Also- blue smoke is oil. Black/greygray is fuel.... white is typically water/coolant but we have none.

Any of your friends have a compression tester / leak down?

 

[max]

Josh I've watched your dyno-clip and would add my best wishes for your recovery.
Wonder if you can help me understand the pcv, from what i have watched on a yt clip it connects in series with the throttle body 10 pole connector and gets all the power and data it needs from that connector only?

In that case the injectors are now under control of the output of the power commander v, so if one or more of the injectors is left on for whatever reason or fault the engine is being over fueled.

I did notice that Johnny mentions that he only saw smoke when the engine was " running rough" and has been working good until it started to play up intermittently, he also has had pcv's before so he knows what to expect.

It appears that most of the pcv's out there are working fine like yours but there are some that have not worked as expected and that can be for a variety of reasons.

So can you tell me if the pcv has more than just the 10 pole connector connected to the engine?

 

[Ben70_imp]

I'm in agreement with pekingduck that the battery not being up to snuff could cause such a problem. The computer may not be getting enough current to keep everything functioning properly in a situation where the battery has run down, and not recovered. I have seen cars jump started that destroyed the alternator because they were driven away rather than put on a charger to recover.
Have you had any issues since charging the battery fully?
Also have seen more than one instance of sudden battery failure on a four or five year old battery on this forum.
Good luck.

Ben

 

[DBM_imp]

Who tuned your engine? I don't see any mention of that, and no mention of an auto-tune box.

I can say that both the files on the dynojet site for a power commander DO NOT take into account the removal of the cat, DO NOT take into account the removal of the airbox snorkel, DO NOT take into account the larger velocity stacks.

From my dyno testing- I would not run even just a TSR airbox plate without adding fuel!!! Too lean!!

All the parts you have- and no specialized tuning is a recipe for disaster!!

I also disagree with you guys saying not to modify the engine as the engineers know best- the engineers work within restrictions the real world does not have. Intelligent thought out modifications can be done with no detriment.
Also- blue smoke is oil. Black/greygray is fuel.... white is typically water/coolant but we have none.

Any of your friends have a compression tester / leak down?

Go ahead and do some "intelligent mods" to your engine if you feel the need. Better hope you never need to use your factory warranty.