anyone else noticed this?

[12cb96vfr_imp]

3 issues I have to take my CB in for, wondering if anyone else notices this on theirs. I'll try to explain them the best I can but #1 is kinda weird and I think you'd have to ride it to know. Everyone I've let ride the bike says "man that is abrupt".


1) (the big one) when I open or close the throttle abruptly - I don't even have to be giving it a lot of power - it feels very strange. Almost like riding with a very loose chain. I feel a TON of drive line lash. Its like i'll hit the gas and BANG, then I'll close throttle and BANG.

I've adjusted the chain, it's 100% within spec. My VFR is really smooth, this thing feels like I'm going to break the transmission whenever I load/empty the throttle. imagine loosening your chain as far as you could, then riding along at 5mph and slamming the gas. Then imagine closing the gas as fast as you opened it, that loose, jerky chain lash - yeah its like that times 10 haha. The only way I can get it to be smooth like my other bikes is to seriously feather the throttle slowly, and I mean sloooowly.


2) I think my fork seals are leaking, my forks are always very dirty with a very thin film, and I've never once wheelied her. Actually I've never really wheelied anything so I know nothing about fork seals. I've never changed a fork seal on any bike I've had so I'm really ignorant about them. I keep my bike spotless at all times, I'll wash it and ride around the block - bam my forks have that film on them.


3) my idle (I put a PCV in so I'm sure that's the problem wanted to see if anyone else experienced this) is very high a lot of the time. It idles at about 17-1800 a lot of the time. Once in a while it'll drop down to 1000+/-; I tried to pull fuel out of it and put the stock fueling back in my map, with no luck. This has made #1 slightly more noticeable, but #1 was still there long before the Power Commander 5.


Sorry for the novel haha, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible. Anyone else notice any of this?

Thanks guys!

 

[Guth_imp]

More on fork seals here.

 

[the Ferret]

I would certainly have the dealer take a look at the bike.

I'd have to ride your bike to see if your drive line lash, or throttle play is excessive but these chain drive cush hubbed fi fueled bikes do not like to have their throttles chopped. They reward those who are smooth with their on/ off throttle transitions.

If a fork seal is leaking you should see brown oil running down a fork leg or at least drooled all over the inner fork tube, and not just a light film. Having both fork seals leaking at the same time would be rare indeed. Not saying it's impossible, but in 17 years in the business I have never seen it. Usually it's one, but you generally replace them both while you have it apart.

There is an issue with your idle. It should be 1100 rpm +- 100 rpms, but it is not adjustable. Sounds like it could be an air leak someplace. Definitely have your dealer check that but if you installed a PCV and the issue showed up after that, that would be suspect IMO.

Keep us informed as to what your dealer says.

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

Thank you sir! I feel like a moron I forgot the most important part about #2 I was so focused on #1. the weird part about mine is you can see the stuff on the forks, but if you touch it with your finger its dry.

There isn't any oil leaking that I can feel - you can just see it. Kinda like a smudges on glass I guess you could say. I know my buddies all said when your seal leaks you'll see it (and feel it) splattered all over the place.....

I'll try to go snag some pics when i get home
thanks buddy, I was typing as you were haha, I appreciate the feedback!!

I would certainly have the dealer take a look at the bike.

I'd have to ride your bike to see if your drive line lash, or throttle play is excessive but these chain drive cush hubbed fi fueled bikes do not like to have their throttles chopped. They reward those who are smooth with their on/ off throttle transitions.

If a fork seal is leaking you should see brown oil running down a fork leg or at least drooled all over the inner fork tube, and not just a light film. Having both fork seals leaking at the same time would be rare indeed. Not saying it's impossible, but in 17 years in the business I have never seen it. Usually it's one, but you generally replace them both while you have it apart.

There is an issue with your idle. It should be 1100 rpm +- 100 rpms, but it is not adjustable. Sounds like it could be an air leak someplace. Definitely have your dealer check that but if you installed a PCV and the issue showed up after that, that would be suspect IMO.

Keep us informed as to what your dealer says.

actually I should clarify this: it feels like i'm being very abrupt with the throttle on this bike - whereas on my other bikes I'm silky smooth using the same riding techniques, so to speak. At first i figured I just had to learn the sweet spot on this bike, but is' like there isn't one. You're on or You're off.

If I actually do whack the gas it's VERY noticeable. Then it feels like I'm going to cause the tranny to explode haha.

appreciate the feedback as always!!

 

[LiveToRide_imp]

I have the same issue with the throttle response. The chain has to be on the tight side of the specification and I have to work very hard with the throttle to keep it even a little bit smooth.

 

[the Ferret]

The fork seal is one serious seal. Its not an oring it's like 3/8 inch thick, because it is under tremendous pressure. The fork tube is sealed top and bottom. It has a spring a damper rod full of holes and oil in it. When a 540 pound motorcycle with a 180 pound rider ( example only) hits a bump or the front brakes are applied, the front end collapses, closing the distance in the coil binding in the spring, and air pressure forces the oil thru the holes in the damper rod at tremendous force. If there is a leak, the oil will be forced through that spot with extremely high pressure, which is why your buddies say you will visually know if your fork seal is leaking. It's like air leaking out of a tiny hole in a balloon. There is nothing gentle about it.

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

awesome - I didn't know that! I always thought fork seals were really fragile the way I hear people talk about replacing them. I guess they mostly pop from wheelies then?

I have the same issue with the throttle response. The chain has to be on the tight side of the specification and I have to work very hard with the throttle to keep it even a little bit smooth.

yep, exactly.

 

[the Ferret]

I think wheelie where they drop the front end down are probably harder on the seals than those who ride them out to a gentle landing, but I think most fork seals are damaged by miniscule road debris which is why a lot of manufacturers put seal guards on these days, little shields, usually plastic, that protect the bottom 3 inches or so of the fork legs, in the area where the fork tube slides in and out of the seal the most.

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

ahh, gotcha.....this might be a good time to add some gaiters to the forks...

 

[Houtman_imp]

This bike was my first bike with fuel injection and it took me a while to get used to the difference between that and all my bikes in the past with carbs.
Now it feels much better but still nothing is smoother than a well adjusted 6 cylinder CBX.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

Why did you add the PC? If you havent made a lot of mods that require it, perhaps you could disconnect it and see how that affects the fueling.

In OEM form our bikes have the smoothest, most progressive torque line out there. Your ride should be glass-smooth, fueling-wise.

 

[Scoobynut_imp]

3 issues I have to take my CB in for, wondering if anyone else notices this on theirs. I'll try to explain them the best I can but #1 is kinda weird and I think you'd have to ride it to know. Everyone I've let ride the bike says "man that is abrupt".


1) (the big one) when I open or close the throttle abruptly - I don't even have to be giving it a lot of power - it feels very strange. Almost like riding with a very loose chain. I feel a TON of drive line lash. Its like i'll hit the gas and BANG, then I'll close throttle and BANG.

I've adjusted the chain, it's 100% within spec. My VFR is really smooth, this thing feels like I'm going to break the transmission whenever I load/empty the throttle. imagine loosening your chain as far as you could, then riding along at 5mph and slamming the gas. Then imagine closing the gas as fast as you opened it, that loose, jerky chain lash - yeah its like that times 10 haha. The only way I can get it to be smooth like my other bikes is to seriously feather the throttle slowly, and I mean sloooowly.


2) I think my fork seals are leaking, my forks are always very dirty with a very thin film, and I've never once wheelied her. Actually I've never really wheelied anything so I know nothing about fork seals. I've never changed a fork seal on any bike I've had so I'm really ignorant about them. I keep my bike spotless at all times, I'll wash it and ride around the block - bam my forks have that film on them.


3) my idle (I put a PCV in so I'm sure that's the problem wanted to see if anyone else experienced this) is very high a lot of the time. It idles at about 17-1800 a lot of the time. Once in a while it'll drop down to 1000+/-; I tried to pull fuel out of it and put the stock fueling back in my map, with no luck. This has made #1 slightly more noticeable, but #1 was still there long before the Power Commander 5.


Sorry for the novel haha, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible. Anyone else notice any of this?

Thanks guys!

I've found that the throttle free play on almost all modern bikes is set very loose from the factory, so I tighten it up to almost, but not quite, zero play, so that as soon as the throttle is turned it meets resistance. If that play isn't reduced you have this 'dead zone' of turning the throttle very easily, and then sudden resistance that is hard to guage exactly where it begins. By tightening the play, you are much more in control of throttle engagement. It makes being smoother much easier IMO. Within a few miles you will be used to the earlier throttle engagement. This completely eliminated any jerkiness in my CB1100, and has worked great on my other bikes also.

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

good idea, I'm going to check that scooby...but lets say i'm at 50% throttle and I close the throttle to 10% there is still a hit. Then if i'm cruising along at 10% and I open it back up to 50% it hits again, its not just from 0 throttle to open, thats what is driving me nuts. it obviously gets more prominent the harder/faster you open/close, but you can feel it with almost any adjustment to the throttle - unless you deliberately make any changes to throttle VERY slowly.

spaceman i added a slip on, a k&n and the pcv. ill be adding more though. when i had it tuned it was lean in some spots and you can definitely feel a difference. the bike is smooth as silk when its pulling though, that part is awesome.

if I could get this initial hit sorted out I'll be golden. At first I figured it was just the bike, but the more i ride it the more its bugging me.

 

[Guth_imp]

When adjusting the play in throttle cables, it's a good idea to turn the handlebars from lock to lock while the engine is idling. You want to make sure that you still have enough play to accommodate the cables being stretched as the bars are turned. Without enough play, you can end up with unintended acceleration from simply turning the bars.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

Does your map table have any values in it at zero throttle and below 2000 rpm?

 

[HondaJon_imp]

None of those issues here. I am running a PCV with the TSR map and the idle is right at 1100. Have you tried going back to the stock PCV map that came with the unit?

You should give the TSR map a try. Their bike was moded out and I found it interesting that they only changed 6 values when compared to the map that is pre-loaded.

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

Jon yeah it did it w/ the stock map. I had it dyno tuned and put all of my zero throttle values back to stock.

 

[dBuster_imp]

Regards to fork seals, it took 32 years for my other bike to need new fork seals. A lot of things can affect fork seals and not just wheelies. What it sounds like you have normal fork action.

Trust me if it was leaking you would see a mess! I had to tutee shop towels around my fork that started leaking it was a tell take sign of leakage

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk

 

[Deanohh_imp]

Jon yeah it did it w/ the stock map. I had it dyno tuned and put all of my zero throttle values back to stock.

you did that several months ago. If you are still having high idle after warm up then something else is wrong.

 

[Huladog_imp]

Yes, I encounter the "snatchy" throttle when I roll off/roll on the throttle and like usual I always adjust out the excess throttle cable slack.

I thought it was just sloppy technique but I haven't quite figured out what the trick is and I've had a bunch of fuel injected bikes plus chain/shaft/belt final drives.

The only thing that works right now is to feather the clutch before I roll on the throttle again ...... but it really shouldn't need that.

Aloha,
Huladog