anyone else noticed this?

[SUPERCRUZ_imp]

3 issues I have to take my CB in for, wondering if anyone else notices this on theirs. I'll try to explain them the best I can but #1 is kinda weird and I think you'd have to ride it to know. Everyone I've let ride the bike says "man that is abrupt".


1) (the big one) when I open or close the throttle abruptly - I don't even have to be giving it a lot of power - it feels very strange. Almost like riding with a very loose chain. I feel a TON of drive line lash. Its like i'll hit the gas and BANG, then I'll close throttle and BANG.

I've adjusted the chain, it's 100% within spec. My VFR is really smooth, this thing feels like I'm going to break the transmission whenever I load/empty the throttle. imagine loosening your chain as far as you could, then riding along at 5mph and slamming the gas. Then imagine closing the gas as fast as you opened it, that loose, jerky chain lash - yeah its like that times 10 haha. The only way I can get it to be smooth like my other bikes is to seriously feather the throttle slowly, and I mean sloooowly.


2) I think my fork seals are leaking, my forks are always very dirty with a very thin film, and I've never once wheelied her. Actually I've never really wheelied anything so I know nothing about fork seals. I've never changed a fork seal on any bike I've had so I'm really ignorant about them. I keep my bike spotless at all times, I'll wash it and ride around the block - bam my forks have that film on them.


3) my idle (I put a PCV in so I'm sure that's the problem wanted to see if anyone else experienced this) is very high a lot of the time. It idles at about 17-1800 a lot of the time. Once in a while it'll drop down to 1000+/-; I tried to pull fuel out of it and put the stock fueling back in my map, with no luck. This has made #1 slightly more noticeable, but #1 was still there long before the Power Commander 5.


Sorry for the novel haha, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible. Anyone else notice any of this?

Thanks guys!

I've found that the throttle free play on almost all modern bikes is set very loose from the factory, so I tighten it up to almost, but not quite, zero play, so that as soon as the throttle is turned it meets resistance. If that play isn't reduced you have this 'dead zone' of turning the throttle very easily, and then sudden resistance that is hard to guage exactly where it begins. By tightening the play, you are much more in control of throttle engagement. It makes being smoother much easier IMO. Within a few miles you will be used to the earlier throttle engagement. This completely eliminated any jerkiness in my CB1100, and has worked great on my other bikes also.

I've found that the throttle free play on almost all modern bikes is set very loose from the factory, so I tighten it up to almost, but not quite, zero play, so that as soon as the throttle is turned it meets resistance. If that play isn't reduced you have this 'dead zone' of turning the throttle very easily, and then sudden resistance that is hard to guage exactly where it begins. By tightening the play, you are much more in control of throttle engagement. It makes being smoother much easier IMO. Within a few miles you will be used to the earlier throttle engagement. This completely eliminated any jerkiness in my CB1100, and has worked great on my other bikes also.
Spot on with this suggestion. I like my throttle play tight so I took almost all the play out. Makes it much smoother and easier to blip the throttle on down shifts. I would also check the chain tension and make sure this is to OE spect as a loose chain will also add jerkiness to the bike on accel and decal. Good luck with it.

 

[Scoobynut_imp]

What Supercruz said. Bike seems pretty sensitive to chain tension compared to some others.

 

[redbirds_imp]

Compared to other fuel injected bikes I've owned, the CB has smooth throttle transitions, nearly at the level of a carb bike.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Issue #1, ride more smoothly, maybe? Although this issue could well be related to your Power Commander as the fuel map is directly related to the throttle response.

Issue #2, no problems with mine so far.

Issue #3, toss that Power Commander and go back to stock.

There is nothing wrong with the bike; it's likely the PCV incorrectly mapped.

 

[HondaJon_imp]

I have an idea, it may sound silly, but it costs nothing and may work. Disconnect your battery. Let her sit for 10 minutes, reconnect and see what happens with the idle.

 

[bubblerboy64_imp]

I much prefer the fuel injected bikes over the carbs. When the carbs are one hundred % you are good but it seems they don't stay 100% for long. Also the ethanol gas seems mess with the carbs.

I have to think this is chain tension first and throttle adjustment and injection mapping second. Could be wrong.

I certainly does sound like something isn't at all as it should be. You know it's strange (or not) but you can have two identical bikes and one will just run better then the other. I've had three different Honda Magna bikes and the first one was just a cut above the other two.

I am also happiest with bikes which are belt driven. I'd rather have a belt over a chain or shaft. I've found some of the shaft drives to snatch worse then the chain driven bikes. Less oil and mess with a shaft but I don't see it as a significant plus on a motorcycle. Maybe the very largest bikes should be shaft driven (a Wing for example).

Hope you get the issues resolved because it sounds like it would be annoying as it is. We ride for fun and when things aren't right it detracts from the experience.

 

[shdwghst457_imp]

3 issues I have to take my CB in for, wondering if anyone else notices this on theirs. I'll try to explain them the best I can but #1 is kinda weird and I think you'd have to ride it to know. Everyone I've let ride the bike says "man that is abrupt".


1) (the big one) when I open or close the throttle abruptly - I don't even have to be giving it a lot of power - it feels very strange. Almost like riding with a very loose chain. I feel a TON of drive line lash. Its like i'll hit the gas and BANG, then I'll close throttle and BANG.

I've adjusted the chain, it's 100% within spec. My VFR is really smooth, this thing feels like I'm going to break the transmission whenever I load/empty the throttle. imagine loosening your chain as far as you could, then riding along at 5mph and slamming the gas. Then imagine closing the gas as fast as you opened it, that loose, jerky chain lash - yeah its like that times 10 haha. The only way I can get it to be smooth like my other bikes is to seriously feather the throttle slowly, and I mean sloooowly.


2) I think my fork seals are leaking, my forks are always very dirty with a very thin film, and I've never once wheelied her. Actually I've never really wheelied anything so I know nothing about fork seals. I've never changed a fork seal on any bike I've had so I'm really ignorant about them. I keep my bike spotless at all times, I'll wash it and ride around the block - bam my forks have that film on them.


3) my idle (I put a PCV in so I'm sure that's the problem wanted to see if anyone else experienced this) is very high a lot of the time. It idles at about 17-1800 a lot of the time. Once in a while it'll drop down to 1000+/-; I tried to pull fuel out of it and put the stock fueling back in my map, with no luck. This has made #1 slightly more noticeable, but #1 was still there long before the Power Commander 5.


Sorry for the novel haha, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible. Anyone else notice any of this?

Thanks guys!

Having only ridden a Shadow aside from my CB, I don't have experience on many bikes to compare ride qualities yet. I can attest, however, to being keenly observant of the jerkiness of the chain. I thought it was just a characteristic of chain-driven bikes since the Shadow (2012) was shaft-driven, but seeing it here validates my annoyance with it. Every stop and start of the throttle feels like the bike is banging into gear, similar to how my old Pontiac Fireturd felt when the flywheel was failing (the motor actually ripped the inner ring of bolts away from the main unit, into two concentric pieces!)

So the big question is, are all of the CB1100s like this, or was it a certain batch of them, or is it just a matter of tightening the chain?

 

[Deanohh_imp]

I run my chain at mid spec, never to the tight side. There is no trouble with jerkiness or slamming back and forth. Hope you sort out your problem.

 

[davidsargee_imp]

Mine got jerky like that, I checked the chain and it was slightly out of spec, I tightened it to spec and it smoothed right out. No problems before or since. As other's have said, I would take it to the dealer if I was having the problems you are describing.

 

[flynrider]

I run my chain at mid spec, never to the tight side. There is no trouble with jerkiness or slamming back and forth. Hope you sort out your problem.

I run mine at the loose end of the spec. Some people don't like the increased potential for jerkiness, but I've found that if make an effort to be smooth on the clutch and throttle, it's not an issue.

The nice part about running at the loose end of the spec is that there is almost no stretching. I just topped 4K miles and I still haven't done the first chain adjustment.

 

[Greg Davis_imp]

I run my chain at mid spec, never to the tight side. There is no trouble with jerkiness or slamming back and forth. Hope you sort out your problem.

I run mine at the loose end of the spec. Some people don't like the increased potential for jerkiness, but I've found that if make an effort to be smooth on the clutch and throttle, it's not an issue.

The nice part about running at the loose end of the spec is that there is almost no stretching. I just topped 4K miles and I still haven't done the first chain adjustment.

I run mine at the loose end of the spec. Some people don't like the increased potential for jerkiness, but I've found that if make an effort to be smooth on the clutch and throttle, it's not an issue.

The nice part about running at the loose end of the spec is that there is almost no stretching. I just topped 4K miles and I still haven't done the first chain adjustment.

Lots of people adjust their chains too tight. Hard on sprockets, and chains, and output shaft seals. If you are going to error, error on the loose side. Seems like you got it covered.

 

[rboe]

I agree.

 

[the Ferret]

There is an old saying that a loose chain is a happy chain however this bike likes a slightly tighter chain. As long as there is some slack and it's not banjo tight, everything is good.

 

[flynrider]

Checked the chain after a long ride in the mountains today and it's got about 1.5 inches of play. Looks like I'll be doing the first adjustment this weekend (4,300 mi.).

 

[Damfino_imp]

3 issues I have to take my CB in for, wondering if anyone else notices this on theirs. I'll try to explain them the best I can but #1 is kinda weird and I think you'd have to ride it to know. Everyone I've let ride the bike says "man that is abrupt".


1) (the big one) when I open or close the throttle abruptly - I don't even have to be giving it a lot of power - it feels very strange. Almost like riding with a very loose chain. I feel a TON of drive line lash. Its like i'll hit the gas and BANG, then I'll close throttle and BANG.

I've adjusted the chain, it's 100% within spec. My VFR is really smooth, this thing feels like I'm going to break the transmission whenever I load/empty the throttle. imagine loosening your chain as far as you could, then riding along at 5mph and slamming the gas. Then imagine closing the gas as fast as you opened it, that loose, jerky chain lash - yeah its like that times 10 haha. The only way I can get it to be smooth like my other bikes is to seriously feather the throttle slowly, and I mean sloooowly.


2) I think my fork seals are leaking, my forks are always very dirty with a very thin film, and I've never once wheelied her. Actually I've never really wheelied anything so I know nothing about fork seals. I've never changed a fork seal on any bike I've had so I'm really ignorant about them. I keep my bike spotless at all times, I'll wash it and ride around the block - bam my forks have that film on them.


3) my idle (I put a PCV in so I'm sure that's the problem wanted to see if anyone else experienced this) is very high a lot of the time. It idles at about 17-1800 a lot of the time. Once in a while it'll drop down to 1000+/-; I tried to pull fuel out of it and put the stock fueling back in my map, with no luck. This has made #1 slightly more noticeable, but #1 was still there long before the Power Commander 5.


Sorry for the novel haha, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible. Anyone else notice any of this?

Thanks guys!

Took me some time to find this thread, but I was sure I'd seen something about the 'herky-jerkyness' of the throttle. I am experiencing this too. I've tried to ease on & off my throttle to see if it made a difference. (It didn't) The feeling is just as you described it. Really started to make my arms tired from the bike jerking back & forth. Did any of the suggestions solve your problem? How many other owners are experiencing this?

 

[12cb96vfr_imp]

I wish buddy, man I just got used to it - or should say I'm getting used to it.

I had the bike looked over and they confirmed everything is tip-top....

Insane, I also ride a '96 VFR and it's night and day........

 

[Greg_imp]

I had always visualized fuel injectors working like a spray bottle, where slight hand pressure produces a small spray and a hard squeeze makes a larger one. But the ECU threads sparked my curiosity and I was surprised to learn that a fuel injector is either on or off and the ECU controls fueling by changing the timing of rapid bursts of fuel.

So even if I delicately roll on or off the throttle, I'm not feathering a variable fuel spray. The ECU sits between me and the throttles and it's translating my wrist movements into slower or faster bursts of fuel.

Apparently the digital kids think nothing of the on/off nature of FI bikes, but for those of us who have carburetor "maps" ingrained in our brains, it is an continual annoyance. A constant "something isn't right" kind of feeling.

My first tweak was to take the free play out of the throttle cable, because a carb bike with a sloppy throttle can feel jerky. But that doesn't really deal with the issue.

THIS is a big reason why ECU tuning appeals to me. I am curious to know if these transitions can be smoothed out. I suspect they can be. I suspect the current setup is done to increase fuel economy and limit emissions, which are good things but my need to have a throttle response I like is important too.

When I have my thoughts about this organized enough I think I'll give Guhl a call and see what he has to say, (or email might be better).

If this means I'm a made member of the troublesome "tuning fraternity" so be it, but I think Honda's amazing PGM-FI has the ability to offer a riding experience more in line with my expectations.

 

[flynrider]

I think you're on the right track, Greg. I believe I read in the ECU flash thread that the stock ECU response to a quickly closed throttle is to shut the fuel off completely. While that makes sense from an emissions point of view, it does result in an abrupt transition from power-on to power-off.

You're correct that it's annoying to those of us brought up on carbed bikes. It just doesn't feel right. I'm still on the fence for the ECU flash. In order to deal with the jerky throttle-off response, I've modified my habits. Under normal riding conditions, I don't quite return the throttle to the idle position when reducing power. If you practice it for awhile, you'll find the spots on the throttle where you can decelerate without the jerk. ...Or you can get a reflash

 

[red raven_imp]

ahh, gotcha.....this might be a good time to add some gaiters to the forks...

Where do you get fork gaiters I am trying to find a few things for my 2013 model I just bought.Idid find a round mirror off of a new shadow that is shorter and looks just like the original mirror my bike came with.

 

[Lord Popgun]

ahh, gotcha.....this might be a good time to add some gaiters to the forks...

Where do you get fork gaiters I am trying to find a few things for my 2013 model I just bought.Idid find a round mirror off of a new shadow that is shorter and looks just like the original mirror my bike came with.

Where do you get fork gaiters I am trying to find a few things for my 2013 model I just bought.Idid find a round mirror off of a new shadow that is shorter and looks just like the original mirror my bike came with.
Gaiter Failure

Read post #6