ABS Light Flashing on 2017EX

[iamheero_imp]

Hey all, some of you may know I recently acquired a used 2017EX with 1,100 miles on it for 9,000USD. That was all great and I love the bike so far, but about half the trips I take, the ABS module will stop working and the light will flash for no apparent reason. The bike is PRISTINE, the wires/sensors appear clean, everything seems to work... until it doesn't, for no apparent reason.

Unfortunately, the bike is out of warranty by like six months. Any ideas? I'm really hoping the ABS module itself doesn't need replacing because it seems like it would be expensive (without having looked into it).

 

[apex1_imp]

Hey all, some of you may know I recently acquired a used 2017EX with 1,100 miles on it for 9,000USD. That was all great and I love the bike so far, but about half the trips I take, the ABS module will stop working and the light will flash for no apparent reason. The bike is PRISTINE, the wires/sensors appear clean, everything seems to work... until it doesn't, for no apparent reason.

Unfortunately, the bike is out of warranty by like six months. Any ideas? I'm really hoping the ABS module itself doesn't need replacing because it seems like it would be expensive (without having looked into it).

It is normal for it to flash when you start the bike until you hit about 10 or 12 mph. After that, it should no longer flash.

 

[peterbaron]

When bike is idling ABS indicator is ON = normal, and when riding, it should go OFF at about 6 mile/hr.
If it is blinking above that speed there is a problem. You can pre-diagnose/read DTC by yourself if you have certain electrical/automotive skills, however, I do not have 2017 EX Honda service manual, mine is 2013-14.
Perhaps reading/diagnostic procedure for 2013/14 & 2017 ABS DTC is the same, or somebody with 2017 manual can guide you through.
For 2013/14, you will need to remove L side cover and have access to a 2 pin DLC connector. You may need a special tool/SCS connector (070PZ-ZY30100). Do not attempt with a jumper wire, until someone advises you to do so....????

This is just a general info for 2013/14. Do not panic and don't dig without proper knowledge/tool.

 

[max]

Couple hints for you;

Abs module is supplied by two fuses; g and h, the last two in the set and both are 30 amps and the only two in the set of that value, maybe remove one at a time and see if it produces the same fault indication.

Assuming the rear sensor is used for the speedo indicator and that can be verified by lifting the bike on the center stand and running it in gear and see if the speedometer indicates normally, that would mean the sensor is functioning since the speedo gets it input from the modulator output.

Can you be more specific as to when the abs light comes on like some time in the trip or right from the start and is it a gradually worsening situation?

The module also expects an input from the brake light, pays to check functionality of the front and rear switches.

Not sure how you determine the modulator " stops working" not having an abs model myself, have you tried it with the rear wheel?

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

As PB indicated, blinking indicates something is not normal. Also consider checking that the encoders are clean/clear. With any luck, maybe there is a wee bit of debris in one of the encoders (the hub-based ring that the sensor reads).

 

[pekingduck]

The most common cause of erratic ABS lights is a bent ABS sensor trigger wheel. Usually it happens when the tire is being changed. The problem could have been there from new, but perhaps the dealer didn't notice it or it didn't happen for him.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

If the encoder is bent, do a visual check on the sensor to ensure it wasn't damaged by a possible "shaving" from the encoder wheel.

A "shaved" sensor will eventually fail later.

 

[iamheero_imp]

To clarify, when I say the light flashes, I mean it turns on and off in a repeating pattern. It's like how it flashes when ABS activates but it's on indefinitely. Ideally, the light is supposed to remain completely on after startup until you reach 19mph (per the manual) and then turn off as you hit that speed, which it DOES at first. However, on several of trips I've taken it will start to flash in perpetuity. Flashing ABS means that ABS module isn't working (again per the manual) and I've tested it out by riding and slamming on the brakes until I lose traction- no ABS activation in situations where it would otherwise engage. It's pretty easy to test if it's working, at least! The question is WHY it keeps failing, which is proving a little harder.

I have only noticed when looking at my gauges at a stop, but I don't think I've noticed any particular trigger event. I did look through the 13-14 service manual I had and went through the troubleshooting I was able to, but as peterbaron mentioned, the real troubleshooting needs to be done with a test tool I don't have. Fortunately for others/Unfortunately for myself, looks like a pretty uncommon problem!

The troubleshooting in the owner's manual says to take it to a dealer immediately, but the service manual says it can happen for a few reasons such as bumpy roads, which I WAS riding on (it doesn't snow in LA but somehow the roads still stink year round!) but I mean, not THAT bumpy. It could also be low tire pressure in combination with crappy roads, apparently. I checked and the pressure was a little low, so I blew the tires up a little more (36/42) and hope that fixes it but haven't had the opportunity to check yet. If this doesn't solve things I'll probably have to go let the dealer run a diagnostic on the module.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

A stab at the root cause could be related to a sensor and maybe the control logic doesn't like its state. Rather than trying to recover and getting that wrong, the controller conservatively goes into error mode to alert the driver until it is reset. Since it appears intermittent, that still smells like a cabling strain, questionable sensor ground connection, or anything along the ABS circuit. A deeper visual inspection would not hurt if you are curious.

If your encoder(s) are clear/clean and "round", then that leaves the sensor(s) suspect, which might be best left to a service dude.

When you inspected the sensors, did you dismount them to take a look at them? Just thinking if a fleck of road tar got on the detector encoder-facing surface.

 

[max]

Thanks for the more elaborate explanation, i googled your problem and found two relevant tips;

and;

This may point you in a direction and maybe isolate the source of the flashing abs light, it appears you can reset the situation by switching the ignition off and back on again after the abs light flashes and it should resume as usual.

One more link found with google;
https://netrider.net.au/threads/2009-honda-cbr600rr-abs-brakes-light-flashing.142981/

Seems an easy enough set of possibilities before taking it to the dealer and they appear to be magnetic, i've just checked my rear sensor and i wasn't aware of this but it makes sense.
Also it seems the brakes still work like non abs units which is good news, if they didn't that points to the abs module$$$$$$

And if the abs light flashes does it have a pattern? such as 2 short and 4 long flashes as if it indicates a specific fault or just on and off?

 

[jtopiso_imp]

To clarify, when I say the light flashes, I mean it turns on and off in a repeating pattern. It's like how it flashes when ABS activates but it's on indefinitely. Ideally, the light is supposed to remain completely on after startup until you reach 19mph (per the manual) and then turn off as you hit that speed, which it DOES at first. However, on several of trips I've taken it will start to flash in perpetuity. Flashing ABS means that ABS module isn't working (again per the manual) and I've tested it out by riding and slamming on the brakes until I lose traction- no ABS activation in situations where it would otherwise engage. It's pretty easy to test if it's working, at least! The question is WHY it keeps failing, which is proving a little harder.

I have only noticed when looking at my gauges at a stop, but I don't think I've noticed any particular trigger event. I did look through the 13-14 service manual I had and went through the troubleshooting I was able to, but as peterbaron mentioned, the real troubleshooting needs to be done with a test tool I don't have. Fortunately for others/Unfortunately for myself, looks like a pretty uncommon problem!

The troubleshooting in the owner's manual says to take it to a dealer immediately, but the service manual says it can happen for a few reasons such as bumpy roads, which I WAS riding on (it doesn't snow in LA but somehow the roads still stink year round!) but I mean, not THAT bumpy. It could also be low tire pressure in combination with crappy roads, apparently. I checked and the pressure was a little low, so I blew the tires up a little more (36/42) and hope that fixes it but haven't had the opportunity to check yet. If this doesn't solve things I'll probably have to go let the dealer run a diagnostic on the module.

As it is an intermitent failure, I wouldn't point to the ABS module. At least not the mechanical part on it. If it was mechanical, you would get the error permanently.

So, most probably, you get the error because the ABS module is receiving wrong information, so you must check:

-tyre pressures (so wheel speed sensors front and rear make sense to the ABS)
-encoders
-wheel sensors
-brake sensors (hand and foot brake levers)
-wiring (<-very likely on "intermitent" electronic failures)

I'd also check fluid level just to be sure, although I don't think this could be the source of an ABS problem.

 

[pekingduck]

Before you take the bike in, check the one thing you can do easily. The front and rear wheel pulser rings, the small stamped sheet metal rings with the multitude of slots in them need to be absolutely straight, as straight as a disc, so you need to spin them quickly and check for any runout.

Then use a feeler gauge to be sure the spacing between the ring and the sensor is .002" - .005". These are by far the most common cause of ABS light codes. They are easily damaged when people change tires, but also when a u-lock or a chain or a disc lock is used.

Since you didn't buy it new, these things are very possible.

 

[peterbaron]

I am a licensed, automotive tech.
To the certain point, there is nothing wrong to rectify any problem by common sense:
did you do any work with your bike prior to the ABS problem like: washing, brakes, wheels/tires, disconnecting something..or anything else that is not even related in your mind to ABS, like: lending your bike to another rider, if your answer is "yes", I would check affected/related spots/area. Did it happen after buying your bike or was the problem present from the very beginning ??

Also:, these members gave you very good/wise tips, here are a few:

* Max
-) two fuses,
-) if the speedometer indicates normally, that would mean the *SENSOR=1* is functioning since the speedo gets its input from the modulator output.,
-) module also expects an input from the brake light,
pays to check functionality of the front and rear switches.,
-) plus his post # 10

*Pekingduck:
-) happens when the tire is being changed. The problem could have been there from new, but perhaps the dealer didn't notice it or it didn't happen for him.

*GoldOxide:
-) do a visual check on the sensor to ensure it wasn't damaged by a possible "shaving" from the encoder wheel.,
-) the controller conservatively goes into error mode to alert the driver until it is reset. Since it appears intermittent, that still smells like a cabling strain, questionable sensor ground connection, or anything along the ABS circuit. A deeper visual inspection would not hurt if you are curious.,
-) when you inspected the sensors, did you dismount them to take a look at them? Just thinking if a fleck of road tar got on the detector encoder-facing surface.

*Jtopiso:
-) wheel sensors
-) both brake switches (lever & pedal)
-) wiring

The bottom line

#1
Reading DTC prior rectifying the problem or/and resetting module would be the best.
The 2013/14 service manual, p.15-9 Problem Code Retrieval & p.15-10 Problem Code Erasure states that a jumper wire CAN be used between 2 terminals (ONLY '13 model), however after '13 model (p.15-12 & 15-14) SCS connector can ONLY be jumped by the special tool # 070PZ-ZY300100. I do NOT know what is the proper procedure for any other models, including yours 2017, so do not exercise with jumper wire as for '13 model.

#2
Your conventional braking system works OK, so I do not expect a hydraulic problem.
When the ABS unit detects a problem, it stops the ABS function and switches back to the conventional operation, and the ABS indicator blinks or stays on.
Do a very good visual inspection as few above members indicated.
If you have some manual skills, you may disconnect/inspect & reconnect (one by one basis) all related electrical connectors & fuses to: lever/pedal brake switches, stop bulb/connection , ABS module & its ground/bolt, F&R-WSS..there will be about 12-15 connections, including ECM.

Many electrical problems can be related to poor contact, NOT a defective component.
Also see if all 4 (2&2) = F&R-WSS bolts are tight.

You are provided you with friendly help based on: your description, 2013/14 manual (not '17) and suggestions of others,. This is NOT the onsite diagnose.

Whatever you do with the above electrical procedure, first make sure that the ignition is OFF and then battery disconnected (negative), except for reading, deleting and resetting DTC.
In general, electronic components handling requires gloves and grounding your body to the bike chassis prior touching .... this is not to scare you but to be technically correct.

Good luck

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Thanks PB.

I've been shopping online for the SCS service tool. They're about $20, which seems like a lot when you realize what they are. I need it to make the high altitude ECU adjustment on my Monkey.

 

[peterbaron]

Thanks PB.

I've been shopping online for the SCS service tool. They're about $20, which seems like a lot when you realize what they are. I need it to make the high altitude ECU adjustment on my Monkey.

LR, did you mean the special tool # 070PZ-ZY300100???, if yes send a link please.
Just wonder if there is any resistor or ??? built into it or just bullcuss* straight jumper wire with a housing for U$20 :huh:
:beerchug:

*censored

 

[pekingduck]

Here's a little information on the SCC tool to help clarify (or confuse) the subject.

Every fuel injected Honda motorcycle, scooter, ATV or SXS from about 2003-on has a 4-pin connector in the wire harness used for diagnosing the fuel injection system. (It actually may be used a few earlier models like 929 and Blackbird, but I don't recall for sure).

Sometimes they're called SCS or SCC (service check connector) or DLC (data link connector). Codes are retrieved by plugging in the SCS tool, basically a female mate to the harness connector that bridges 2 terminals (the other 2 are just left blank).

The same tool (# 070PZ-ZY30100) is used for all of them, from Grom to Gold Wing to Big Red, so it's not a bad tool to have, even though the manual tells you which wires to bridge (I've used a paper clip before).

However, there is a danger of shorting the wrong wires, which has been known to short out PGM-FI units. (Some models use the other 2 wires of the SCS connector in the harness to power Genuine Honda accessories.)

On some ABS models, such as the 2013 CB1100A, an extra 3-pin connector elsewhere in the harness is used, and it uses a different plug-in connector tool.
2014 and later CB1100 use the same SCS harness connector for ABS also

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Here's a little information on the SCC tool to help clarify (or confuse) the subject.

Every fuel injected Honda motorcycle, scooter, ATV or SXS from about 2003-on has a 4-pin connector in the wire harness used for diagnosing the fuel injection system. (It actually may be used a few earlier models like 929 and Blackbird, but I don't recall for sure).

Sometimes they're called SCS or SCC (service check connector) or DLC (data link connector). Codes are retrieved by plugging in the SCS tool, basically a female mate to the harness connector that bridges 2 terminals (the other 2 are just left blank).

The same tool (# 070PZ-ZY30100) is used for all of them, from Grom to Gold Wing to Big Red, so it's not a bad tool to have, even though the manual tells you which wires to bridge (I've used a paper clip before).

However, there is a danger of shorting the wrong wires, which has been known to short out PGM-FI units. (Some models use the other 2 wires of the SCS connector in the harness to power Genuine Honda accessories.)

On some ABS models, such as the 2013 CB1100A, an extra 3-pin connector elsewhere in the harness is used, and it uses a different plug-in connector tool.
2014 and later CB1100 use the same SCS harness connector for ABS also

Sounds like an idiot-proof paperclip, and possibly with a built-in resistor.

 

[pekingduck]

No resistor, it's just a wire.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

No resistor, it's just a wire.

$20 bucks, eh?

 

[LongRanger_imp]

This is it. Honda #070PZ-ZY30100 SCS Service Connector. Basically just a jumper with a plug-n-play connector. It's something I need to buy. I'll use it one time, throw it in the toolbox, and not be able to find it the next time I need it.