A tale of 2 Hondas

[the Ferret]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

 

[rotor]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

Of course not.

But I am not talking about the ratio of motorcycle vs. car "transportation miles", I'm talking about the ratio of motorcycle "transportation miles" vs. motorcycle "pleasure riding miles".

This ratio is now (I am, of course, just guessing here) at best 5-10% "transportation miles" in North America, 30-50% in Europe and Australia, versus 90+% in Asia an Africa. If the US and Canada could in that respect get a just little bit closer to Europe/Australia, this would be of significant benefit for the moribund North American motorcycle market. Not perhaps in absolute numbers, at least not immediately, but in the overall "product usage mix", a necessary ingredient of a healthy market.

 

[the Ferret]

It would be interetsing to have those figures. I wonder if they are available anywhere. i'm guessing not.

 

[Nortoon_imp]

That's easy for me.
Motorcycle pleasure miles 100%
Car 0%
I use my car for errands and trips with the second driver. Actually she is now driver one, since I only drive about once a week. We make a monthly payment for the car just like every other utility.

 

[Haystack_imp]

Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul.

 

[BIGGREEK_imp]

Ill put it to you this way, just in a fuel perspective. I have quite a long commute to work (90 miles one way) and i daily a Vw Jetta Diesel that gets me 48-50 MPGs. I have heat, a radio, wiper blades, etc... It costs me $28 every three days to fill up.

When I took the CB to work occasionally (dont anymore since: A. Accident, B: I have a rocket couch on wheels (Valkyrie)) it got me around 38- 40 MPG and I had to fill up every day, if not twice (about $10 each fill). I was uncomfortable after the halfway point and when it was cold....i was cold.

Im not even going to talk about what the Valkyrie gets and costs me. 6 Cylinders, 1500cc, 800lbs, 6 long open trumpets. Lets just say I didnt buy it for economy.

Just in a fuel and amenities perspective...its better for me to take the car.

 

[rotor]

Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul.

But when for one reason or another, one must move the body, isn't it better to keep the soul in tow, instead of leaving it behind?

And commuting on CB (or Valkyrie) is orthogonal to this discourse: a person that can afford one of those is not likely to be much concerned with economy. They are not motorcycle buyer demographic I believe motorcycle companies should be interested in reaching. It's the young dude that just might get a cb500f and get to his downtown office 45 minutes sooner (each way, every day) because he can filter through the traffic, and pay for the parking one quarter of what he pays for parking a car (because he uses one quarter of parking space).

Motorcycle market in North America does not need to convert those of us that can afford expensive toys into motorcycle commuters, it badly needs fresh blood that is concerned with economy and would be buying the most economical machine capable of dealing with suburban freeways as well as filtering through urban congestion - just like it was Seoul, South Korea (been there, done that

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

As many have said, kids these days are often lazy. They don't work like my older brothers did in the 70's so they are lucky to even afford a car, let alone a bike. I was the kid on the bicycle, without a date! LOL. "I gotta do WHAT to afford a car?"
A bike for me is a chance to get away from home and routine. I can't just do the whole work, home, work, home, work, home thing. Many friends live in homes that take a huge amount of time. "Wanna go for a ride?" "Yeah but I gotta go mow the lawn..." In leaner times, I've had a Ninja 250, a SUZ TU250, and a few old Honda Nighthawks that were cheap. The ride is the soul. It's like breathing. She married a motorcyclist. "You can't ride anymore." "Ok, see ya."
Many a guitar player made the same choice.
"It's the guitar or me!"
Ok. Hendrix riff!

 

[SSK Dave_imp]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IndianRider_imp]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My buddy and I toured the jungles / forest area around Chiang mai, Thailand in 2012 on rented 100-125cc bikes and had a trip of a life time .. I believe we rode through the banana plantations where one of the Rambo movie was shot .. fantastic people and food and culture

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SSK Dave_imp]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My buddy and I toured the jungles / forest area around Chiang mai, Thailand in 2012 on rented 100-125cc bikes and had a trip of a life time .. I believe we rode through the banana plantations where one of the Rambo movie was shot .. fantastic people and food and culture

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been living in Asia for the last 11 years, Thailand & visited Cambodia & Laos a few times.
Small bikes up to 150cc are the only means of transport for the masses. If poor, they may club together and get someone with a pick-up to drive them into a larger town for shopping or use run-down busses. Those with a better paying job get loans (government) and buy new trucks or cars. I've seen more new cars in Thailand, than U.K.!
Bigger bikes have been a growing market over the last 5/6 years with many manufacturers making them in Thailand. There is a very active Biker scene with Bike parties in different towns most weekends (except for the hot & wet seasons). These parties are generally safe & non-violent with money raised by local clubs going to a local charity.
Unfortunately, being the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (80% small bikes &/or tourists), it is not a country for the faint-hearted or inexperienced. Northern Thailand is a bikers 'dream ride!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My buddy and I toured the jungles / forest area around Chiang mai, Thailand in 2012 on rented 100-125cc bikes and had a trip of a life time .. I believe we ride through the banana plantations where one of the Rambo movie was shot .. fantastic people and food and culture

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, the far north is more interesting scenery and slightly cooler too. The roads have improved greatly over the last decade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lunatic Fringe_imp]

Small inexpensive cars are safer, more economical, more utilitarian and more comfortable than a motorcycle it seems. About the only purposeful utilitarian bike I can think of is the Honda NC700X. It gets great mileage, has useful storage, has a power outlet and is pretty simple to maintain. Pretty much if you want an economical bike this your machine. They sell well in Europe for the reasons listed above. They make a great commuter device in large cities especially where the snow never flies. I don't we need to characterize younger folks as being lazy and not into going outside. We need to look at the fact that cars today are simply the better practical alternative for getting around, especially the small suv.

 

[Wisedrum]

I toured through 5 countries in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and Lichtenstein and although I saw a fair number of motorcycles there (mainly scooters) the vast preponderance of vehicles I saw were still cars...small cars, but cars never the less. When I watch Youtube vids of riders negotiating in European cities, or test riding new motorcycles, it is still single motorcycles surrounded by a sea of cars. European riders may be more serious about riding than the average American (as is the ave Euro car driver), but from what I observed when it comes to commuting the car is still king there.

It may be different in Asia, I'm not sure, never been to Asia, but as far as I observed, the motorcycle has not replaced the car as primary transportation in any of the 5 countries I visited in Europe in any significant numbers.

To give you an idea in numbers ferret, in Germany there are round about 4 million motorbikes and 45,5 million cars listed by the KBA (Kraftfahrzeugbundesamt). This explains a lot.
The 4 million contain scooter, 125, Mofa, Mockicks and so on, which are in my eyes no 'real motorbikes'. Another comparision is informativ. Cars are driven lets write 12.000 to 15.000km averagely a year, motorbikes maybe 2.000 to 3.000km. Many riders have more than one bike. All this are reasons why you don't see as many motorbikes on the road as it would be nice for the eyes and sometimes the ears.

Don't think that the situation is very different in the neighbour countries. Surely it depends on the season, the places and even the daytime where and when I'm riding, but more often than not I feel as if I'm the only motocyclist among cardrivers.

Wisedrum

 

[Offroad]

Meticulous record keeping! Wish that was in me to do that.

Mine is purely for fun. I'm reliving my childhood (well my childhood of age 14-30).

As far as a mechanical toy you can drive goes, I'm not so sure it's a bad deal.

Airplanes $100/hr, Race Car (Ferrari, track and instructor included) $400/15min, Snowmobile (guide included) $250/hr, Boats $300/day...

I was just thinking while riding down the road the other day what it might cost to rent this toy for the day...glad I own it ;-)