A fuel thread

[Cormanus]

Although I feel a bit of a fraud posting in the Mechanical and Technical section of the forum, I'm avoiding something I don't want to do. We also haven't had an oil thread for a bit and tyres seem overdone lately, so we need something to go on about.

So here's a link to an article to get the fuel experts going.

 

[TINK_imp]

For those in CA here are the facts from THE MAN > http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/faq.htm

Is ethanol good? Bad? if you're in CA you really don't have a choice.

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

Gentlemen,

This Forum has already discussed this in some detail but for the new arrivals here's one dealers take on it (mine, I'm a Chevron dealer in AZ and one of the largest independent retailers of E-85 in Arizona). Ethanol sucks in every way but octane. It's corrosive, it delivers 30% less mileage than gasoline so a mixture of 90% gas/10% ethanol gets 3% poorer mileage. It produces more CO2 than gas. Produces more total emissions. Soaks up water like a sponge. Must be trucked because it can't be pipelined unless it's mixed with at least 80% gasoline. And it wastes farmland, fertilizer, and diesel in it's production.

It does not reduce our dependence on foreign oil but it does drive up food prices. Farmers and farm belt congressmen love forcing all drivers to buy their worthless and destructive swill. Cab drivers at the Phoenix airport are required to use E-85 by law!! The cab drivers hate it but have no choice so I sell it. What a joke.

Chip

 

[redbirds_imp]

Gentlemen,

This Forum has already discussed this in some detail but for the new arrivals here's one dealers take on it (mine, I'm a Chevron dealer in AZ and one of the largest independent retailers of E-85 in Arizona). Ethanol sucks in every way but octane. It's corrosive, it delivers 30% less mileage than gasoline so a mixture of 90% gas/10% ethanol gets 3% poorer mileage. It produces more CO2 than gas. Produces more total emissions. Soaks up water like a sponge. Must be trucked because it can't be pipelined unless it's mixed with at least 80% gasoline. And it wastes farmland, fertilizer, and diesel in it's production.

It does not reduce our dependence on foreign oil but it does drive up food prices. Farmers and farm belt congressmen love forcing all drivers to buy their worthless and destructive swill. Cab drivers at the Phoenix airport are required to use E-85 by law!! The cab drivers hate it but have no choice so I sell it. What a joke.

Chip

+1 and AMEN!

Nothing but an expensive scam, politically powerful agri-business in cahoots with government. Ethanol is especially bad on small carbureted motors. My Honda powered riding mower had carburetor problems every mowing season until I started adding Sea Foam to the fuel. I now have a local source of non-ethanol fuel which put an end to the problem.

 

[Houtman_imp]

I have been in farming all my life but the ethanol is a complete disaster in my opinion .It does not safes us anything but created big problems.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

Gentlemen,

This Forum has already discussed this in some detail but for the new arrivals here's one dealers take on it (mine, I'm a Chevron dealer in AZ and one of the largest independent retailers of E-85 in Arizona). Ethanol sucks in every way but octane. It's corrosive, it delivers 30% less mileage than gasoline so a mixture of 90% gas/10% ethanol gets 3% poorer mileage. It produces more CO2 than gas. Produces more total emissions. Soaks up water like a sponge. Must be trucked because it can't be pipelined unless it's mixed with at least 80% gasoline. And it wastes farmland, fertilizer, and diesel in it's production.

It does not reduce our dependence on foreign oil but it does drive up food prices. Farmers and farm belt congressmen love forcing all drivers to buy their worthless and destructive swill. Cab drivers at the Phoenix airport are required to use E-85 by law!! The cab drivers hate it but have no choice so I sell it. What a joke.

Chip

+1 and AMEN!

Nothing but an expensive scam, politically powerful agri-business in cahoots with government. Ethanol is especially bad on small carbureted motors. My Honda powered riding mower had carburetor problems every mowing season until I started adding Sea Foam to the fuel. I now have a local source of non-ethanol fuel which put an end to the problem.

+1 and AMEN!

Nothing but an expensive scam, politically powerful agri-business in cahoots with government. Ethanol is especially bad on small carbureted motors. My Honda powered riding mower had carburetor problems every mowing season until I started adding Sea Foam to the fuel. I now have a local source of non-ethanol fuel which put an end to the problem.

"Americans are crazy about ethanol". It says so...right there.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Yes worst thing ever, thank Archer Midland Daniels and the Clinton presidency

 

[the Ferret]

It is what it is. Honda says it's ok to run up to 10% ethanol in the owners manual. I pull into a station, put 87 octane in until it shows in the neck, then ride on without another moments thought. Not going to waste my life on something I can do so little about. I do run Seafoam from mid November until March, but that is mainly for any unforseen storage periods that may come up, but I generally ride in all 12 months so the most my bike would sit would be 58 days. I've not had any problems with my cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers, weed eaters or leaf blowers in 10 or 15 years.

We only have a few E85 stations here and you would have to seek one out to find it, but 10% ethanol seems to be the norm.

 

[Mike Bee_imp]

I bought a Cub Cadet lawn mower last summer. It came with a packet of Stabil ethanol treatment. The packet and the dealer said "use with every fill up."

The only thing Chip didn't mention, is we get to pay extra for this ethanol slop (thank you very much)! Much of this has to do with political pandering to the farm lobby, i.e. getting the votes. I'm glad my CB1100 is so fuel efficient.

~ The Bee

 

[CBXBob_imp]

Agreeded except for the LIBERALS rant.Greedy big business owning the Senate and enough of the House is too blame.

 

[flynrider]

Gas with 10% ethanol has been the only oxygenated fuel available here in the Phoenix area for at least 10 yrs. It's mandated by the EPA, so there's no ethanol free option.

I haven't had any problems with it in my modern vehicles (those with fuel systems designed to use E10). None of the vehicles sit unused for long periods of time, so old ethanol isn't an issue (I don't have gas powered lawn/garden equipment).

I have had ethanol related issues, but only on old vehicles whose fuel systems were not designed to handle alcohol. My '69 Mercury ragtop had an issue with 1/4 inch rubber fuel lines that swelled like hot dogs. My old '59 Cessna was inadvertently fed E10 once and it dissolved the carb float. Alcohol laced fuels are strictly forbidden in aircraft (most of which were built in the 80s or earlier) for exactly that reason.

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

Agreeded except for the LIBERALS rant.Greedy big business owning the Senate and enough of the House is too blame.

Bob,

Ethanol is not in your fuel because of "greedy big business". That's not my opinion, that's a fact. Gasoline manufacturers were forced to use these additives by "greedy big government" regulators, many at the state and county levels who thought they knew more than fuel makers. In my home state of AZ the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors specified a boutique blend of gasoline 15 years ago that contained MTBE. This blend was not used any where else in the United States. A different blend was used in the summer than the blend used in the winter. The inefficiencies involved in this folly drove prices up significantly for drivers in the Phoenix area. In addition, both Chevron and Mobil pointed out at the time that MTBE did not break down in the atmosphere and that tests showed it would eventually end up in the areas ground water. The MCBOS bureaucrats ignored those findings and specified it anyway. Five years later we had MTBE in our groundwater. Only then did our regulatory masters switch to ethanol and they filed a lawsuit against Chevron and Mobil for groundwater contamination. They lost that lawsuit.

15 years ago there were over 250 different blends of gasoline stipulated and required to be manufactured in this country by governmental jurisdictions from coast-to-coast. If you actually think that this extremely costly, wasteful, and inefficient boondoggle was cooked up by greedy businessmen then they must be the stupidest businessmen on the planet.

Government can be wasteful and inefficient because they take their money by force and compel citizens to behave in counterproductive ways using that same force. No private business compels or forces me to do anything. They must compete for my business and I choose who I want to buy my products from. There is no greed in the private sector compared to the government sector that offers only two choices. Those two are to 1. Comply or 2. Go to jail.

Cheers,
Chip

 

[Tripod_imp]

Getting quite political for a fuel thread on a motorcycle forum. :-/

Here is a list of vendors that sell ethanol free gas in Arizona: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=AZ

I run ethanol free fuel in my vintage motorcyles, vintage cars and small engine motors. Any newer vehicles get the ethanol fuel, no problem.

Oh, and my family and I farm approximately 7,000 acres in the Ohio counties of Wyandot and Marion.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

If ever there was a thread that needed to closed, this one is it.

 

[the Ferret]

Yea this thread has run it's course. started about gasoline, ended up about politicians. Lets shut it down.