So. Does the "one bike does all" holy grail exist? What would your pick be?
- Thread starter Romo1969_imp
- Start date
calamarichris_imp
Running like a top
I wonder how they got this shot then?
davidsargee_imp
Been there
I was just wondering about that, I think I read somewhere that he either was afraid of them, or didn't like them, or both..............Capo_imp said:
Stunt doublecalamarichris_imp said:I wonder how they got this shot then?
calamarichris_imp
Running like a top
Huh... turns out he wasn't cool at all, just an actor. (Click to shatter another of your cherished childhood illusions.)
the Ferret
Road warrior
Trivia from his bio
As a guest on The New Paul O'Grady Show (2004) (Nov. 18, 2009), Winkler confessed that he could not ride a motorcycle. Despite his image as an inveterate biker on the hit sitcom Happy Days (1974), Winkler never actually rode the bike on the series. During his one and only attempt at mastering the machine, Winkler took a tumble and stayed away from motorcycles after that nasty experience.
His first ride on the "Happy Days" motorcycle resulted in him crashing into the sound-van and then onwards the bike was put onto a board-on-wheels that was pulled along.
The motorcycle he rode on Happy Days (1974) was the same motorcycle Steve McQueen rode in the famous motorcycle scene at the end of The Great Escape (1963).
As a guest on The New Paul O'Grady Show (2004) (Nov. 18, 2009), Winkler confessed that he could not ride a motorcycle. Despite his image as an inveterate biker on the hit sitcom Happy Days (1974), Winkler never actually rode the bike on the series. During his one and only attempt at mastering the machine, Winkler took a tumble and stayed away from motorcycles after that nasty experience.
His first ride on the "Happy Days" motorcycle resulted in him crashing into the sound-van and then onwards the bike was put onto a board-on-wheels that was pulled along.
The motorcycle he rode on Happy Days (1974) was the same motorcycle Steve McQueen rode in the famous motorcycle scene at the end of The Great Escape (1963).
Scoobynut_imp
Been there
From the Holy Grail of do-it-all bikes to the Fonz...Oh my, how did we get here? I blame the long, loooooong, winter.
calamarichris_imp
Running like a top
Poor motorcycle. From the King of Cool running from the nazis, to that wormy little poser Fonzie. (Heck, hearing Winkler's real voice, I bet Pottsie could take him.)The ferret_imp said:
Got this poster up in my garage.
Red Mist_imp
Been there
The R1200GS weighs 15 lbs. LESS than the CB1100.AzBob_imp said:
The R1200GS you commented on meets every one of your criteria (which I agree with, but would expand to include good wind protection, cruise control, and shaft drive). The R1200GS Adventure even more so. It has cruise control, excellent wind protection, heated grips, excellent load carrying capacity, a huge gas tank, and can go way, way off-road. IMO, the R1200GS Adventure is the DEFINITIVE "do everything" bike. Especially in 2014. I am well aware of the "problems" BMW bikes have had over the past few years (most revolving around the new K bike). Just about every one of the issues has been resolved, and the BMW's carry a three-year, unlimited mileage warranty, so you're protected a lot longer than most other brands. Granted, the seat height of the R1200GS is a bit high, so the height-challenged probably would not like this bike all that much, but I know that people barely over 5' tall own them and ride them at the stock height and love them. The Ducati Multistrada is also a contender here, depending on whether you more highly favor being able to go off-road, or go fast (although it has no cruise control, there is an aftermarket solution). As is the Super Tenere (which is now available with cruise control).
Other than the BMW R1200RT (which is more of luxury tourer), no current sport-tourers meet all of your criteria (they all go over your weight restriction by at least 100lbs) (FJR is 637 lbs, Concours 14 is 688, K1600GT is 732). I wouldn't call the VFR800 a sport-tourer (it has to come with panniers to get that designation, in my opinion), however, once you put the panniers on it, it's coming perilously close to the upper limit of your weight restriction (it's 529lbs without bags). The 1200GS can go way, way off road, but it can't do what the F800GS can do, way, way, way off road.
Actually neither of those bikes can go anywhere near what I consider "way" off-road. We need a bike that weighs about 200 pounds for that. The last great dirt bike I rode was the Yamaha WR250, early 1990's, a two-stroke. The new WR250R or even the WR250X can easily leave any BMW or other adventure bike far, far behind...as can a venerable Suzuki DR650.
Even an expert cannot really ride the 1200GS the way we see it being done in the ads, and the F700/800GS series are pretty capable, but even those are really pork when the going gets rough.
However I do agree that even though the 1200GS falls a bit outside my personal criteria, it makes a hell of an all-rounder. Ironically, though, the only area in which it exceeds the F800GS Adventure is on the superslab, where effortless cruising speeds near or even above triple digits are possible.
The 800GS Adventure can certainly zip right along at 80-90 if one desires, and the 700GS can do the same and is lower and lighter yet.
Either of those fit the bill for the "ONE" bike, which by necessity cannot really excel in any one given category, but must needs be quite good in all of them
As far as the weight of the 1200GS compared to the CB1100, as was pointed out, by the time you get it outfitted it'll be the same or more, but...the GS has drastically better suspension and handling. It would not be my choice but neither would the CB1100. The CB1100 in fact is not even close or even on the list of my possible "one and only" bikes.
thessler3_imp
Running like a top
This is an excellent topic. I agree with Red Mist's thoughts, but will add some of my own: Modest size - under 525 lbs with cases on, Low vibration level, broad power band with > 75HP, great brakes, good handling, reliable and durable, some wind protection, decent range and gas mileage, compliant adjustable suspension, comfy seat, easy to maintain, reasonably upright seating position, pegs not too high, removable side cases that are not too wide, nice sounding engine, shaft or belt drive, slick shifting, plenty of good dealers nationwide.
Of all the bikes I have owned, the '76 R90S comes closest, but lacked the good engine sounds and slick shifting and also was not particularly smooth or reliable by today's standards. I wish the new RnineT was closer to a replacement for the R90S and had a decent seat and removable bags.
The Triumph Speed Triples I owned had great power bands for the street and have nice exhaust sounds. Current models are uglier and buzzy in right hand grip. Still a good street bike but no luggage.
My VFR800 was a bit of a disappointment. Linked brakes, non-adjustable suspension, bars too low, even with Helibars, pegs too high, hard to work on, slow turn-in, lacked low-end torque, a bit heavy for an 800. Optional side cases were very nice. V4 motor was smooth and made nice sounds. New VFR does not appear to be a big improvement.
My KTM Superduke handled the best of all, great brakes, great power band, nice sound, reliable, light weight. Excellent suspension components but a bit too stiff. Ugly overall, awful seat, too much vibes in the bars. A great bike for the Cherohala Skyway.
All 3 Ducatis were fun to ride, durable and surprisingly trouble free. The V-twin motors are better in the models tuned for modest horsepower and low-end torque. I wish Ducati would try to make practical bikes again. New Multistradas perform great but are too tall for my tastes and a bit on the ugly side, but that is a personal taste.
The Tuono V2 had a good Rotax motor but suspension was too stiff and seat was awful. Perfect handlebar height and width. Tuono V4 has great handling, good brakes, fantastic sound and power up the wazoo but is uncomfortable. Awful seat, adjustable suspension but too stiff. Poor choices for paint colors, poor dealer network. A great bike for me when I was 26, not 66.
All I4's I have owned have been good overall bikes but a bit buzzy and a bit heavy. I prefer the sound of V motors over Inline motors.
So, my perfect bike will have a V4 or triple motor tuned for mid-range, a comfortable seat (Moto Guzzi Ambassador seat), BMW or Honda luggage, Honda reliability, Harley dealer network & warranty support, handle and brake like the Superduke, compliant, adjustable suspension like K1300S, a small fairing like a FZ-1, shaft or belt drive, Harley Sportster gas mileage and weigh under 525 lbs.
Perhaps all this is too much to ask for in one bike, but that does not keep me from wanting it all. After all, that R90S was pretty close. Add a V motor or a triple and you have it. BMW was also close with the K75, but never tried to make that bike sporty enough for my tastes.
Sorry for the long post, but I have been searching for the perfect bike for almost 50 years, even though it does not really exist. That is what day dreaming is all about.
By the way, I have attended a couple of recent events where Henry Winkler gave autographs and sold memorabilia. He never was, nor ever will be a motorcycle rider let alone an enthusiast. He is polite and a good speaker but a bit wimpy and a bit out of shape. It is hard to imagine he was anything like the Fonz.
If you want a rich, famous real motorcyclist then Jay Leno is the man.
Of all the bikes I have owned, the '76 R90S comes closest, but lacked the good engine sounds and slick shifting and also was not particularly smooth or reliable by today's standards. I wish the new RnineT was closer to a replacement for the R90S and had a decent seat and removable bags.
The Triumph Speed Triples I owned had great power bands for the street and have nice exhaust sounds. Current models are uglier and buzzy in right hand grip. Still a good street bike but no luggage.
My VFR800 was a bit of a disappointment. Linked brakes, non-adjustable suspension, bars too low, even with Helibars, pegs too high, hard to work on, slow turn-in, lacked low-end torque, a bit heavy for an 800. Optional side cases were very nice. V4 motor was smooth and made nice sounds. New VFR does not appear to be a big improvement.
My KTM Superduke handled the best of all, great brakes, great power band, nice sound, reliable, light weight. Excellent suspension components but a bit too stiff. Ugly overall, awful seat, too much vibes in the bars. A great bike for the Cherohala Skyway.
All 3 Ducatis were fun to ride, durable and surprisingly trouble free. The V-twin motors are better in the models tuned for modest horsepower and low-end torque. I wish Ducati would try to make practical bikes again. New Multistradas perform great but are too tall for my tastes and a bit on the ugly side, but that is a personal taste.
The Tuono V2 had a good Rotax motor but suspension was too stiff and seat was awful. Perfect handlebar height and width. Tuono V4 has great handling, good brakes, fantastic sound and power up the wazoo but is uncomfortable. Awful seat, adjustable suspension but too stiff. Poor choices for paint colors, poor dealer network. A great bike for me when I was 26, not 66.
All I4's I have owned have been good overall bikes but a bit buzzy and a bit heavy. I prefer the sound of V motors over Inline motors.
So, my perfect bike will have a V4 or triple motor tuned for mid-range, a comfortable seat (Moto Guzzi Ambassador seat), BMW or Honda luggage, Honda reliability, Harley dealer network & warranty support, handle and brake like the Superduke, compliant, adjustable suspension like K1300S, a small fairing like a FZ-1, shaft or belt drive, Harley Sportster gas mileage and weigh under 525 lbs.
Perhaps all this is too much to ask for in one bike, but that does not keep me from wanting it all. After all, that R90S was pretty close. Add a V motor or a triple and you have it. BMW was also close with the K75, but never tried to make that bike sporty enough for my tastes.
Sorry for the long post, but I have been searching for the perfect bike for almost 50 years, even though it does not really exist. That is what day dreaming is all about.
By the way, I have attended a couple of recent events where Henry Winkler gave autographs and sold memorabilia. He never was, nor ever will be a motorcycle rider let alone an enthusiast. He is polite and a good speaker but a bit wimpy and a bit out of shape. It is hard to imagine he was anything like the Fonz.
If you want a rich, famous real motorcyclist then Jay Leno is the man.
bubblerboy64_imp
Running like a top
I've always wondered how much Leno rides. He certainly is an avid collector but does he USE his stuff much?
Leno seems like a super nice fellow. I'd be very disappointed if he wasn't the gentleman I think he is. I just like the fellow.
Leno seems like a super nice fellow. I'd be very disappointed if he wasn't the gentleman I think he is. I just like the fellow.
thessler3_imp
Running like a top
Just a comment on the BMW 1200GS. Yes, they are fast, comfortable, handle quite well, etcetera. Great luggage. Their styling appeals to some, but not to me. More importantly, they are not particularly reliable. My cousin and closest riding buddy has one he bought new that has about 33K miles on it and there have been many issues, including 3 rear brake rotors (defective carrier from factory), a failed clutch ( defective pressure plate from factory), front suspension problems and a couple more minor problems. The dealer gave him a hard time and refused to warranty the clutch, even though the pressure plate was very obviously incorrectly machined.
In comparison, my 2003 Gold Wing has had two very minor issues costing $35 and $136 in eleven years and 32,000 miles. That's reliable. I can get just about any part for my Hondas on-line at about 22% discount. Try that with a BMW.
In comparison, my 2003 Gold Wing has had two very minor issues costing $35 and $136 in eleven years and 32,000 miles. That's reliable. I can get just about any part for my Hondas on-line at about 22% discount. Try that with a BMW.
Scoobynut_imp
Been there
Have to agree with thessler on this. I have heard lots of negative things about late-model GS reliability and poor dealer support in and out of warranty. They have a penchant for eating final drives among other well-known problems. Where I live the closest BMW dealer is 200 miles away. There are quite a few guys on the Super Tenere forum who are ex-GS owners because they got tired of the headaches. The Yamaha is a very good facsimile of a GS, for less money, and far fewer worries. I will admit having a certain bias as I am a current Super Tenere owner.thessler3_imp said:
Red Mist_imp
Been there
I don't know about anyone else but I've owned an awful lot of bikes and put on a lot of miles and I buy the bike I want. Every brand I've owned has had issues and in point of fact, Hondas have had the most reliability issues of the six brands I've owned. The V45 engines ate cams, I had to have two of those bikes redone, complete cam and follower replacement (warranties paid each time). Had an XL600, air-cooled, top-end oiling issues caused it to seize (same problem with the V45 engines, oiling was insufficient). Next generation Interceptor, entire engine needed to be torn town to replace the cam gear drive train.
The BMWs I've owned have had some odd things, mostly rotting rubber and lousy switchgear, but none have ever left me stranded or needed any engine work. I can't recall any problems with Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kawasaki although the latter two didn't have the best build quality until recently.
It's the luck of the draw most of the time. If the 1200GS was really that bad no one would buy it but they are ubiquitous amongst adventure riders. Super Tenere is a cool bike but the BMW is more refined, been around in various versions for a long time, and it shows. BMW is at the head of the pack when it comes to electronics, too, and while these create headaches, it's the future.
Now if you say Royal Enfield or one of the Chinese or Korean makes, I'd say maybe not a good idea, but any of the major Japanese or European marques are going to make good motorcycles and all will have an occasional issue.
I'd pick a bike from among these makers without any reservations.
Certainly the CB1100 has been beset with its share of problems...just saw this:
http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2479
The BMWs I've owned have had some odd things, mostly rotting rubber and lousy switchgear, but none have ever left me stranded or needed any engine work. I can't recall any problems with Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kawasaki although the latter two didn't have the best build quality until recently.
It's the luck of the draw most of the time. If the 1200GS was really that bad no one would buy it but they are ubiquitous amongst adventure riders. Super Tenere is a cool bike but the BMW is more refined, been around in various versions for a long time, and it shows. BMW is at the head of the pack when it comes to electronics, too, and while these create headaches, it's the future.
Now if you say Royal Enfield or one of the Chinese or Korean makes, I'd say maybe not a good idea, but any of the major Japanese or European marques are going to make good motorcycles and all will have an occasional issue.
I'd pick a bike from among these makers without any reservations.
Certainly the CB1100 has been beset with its share of problems...just saw this:
http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2479
redbirds_imp
Road warrior
I rented a 2011 R1200GS while in the Texas Hill Country that year and it was a very fine performer although I can't speak to it's reliability. At the time I owned a Triumph Tiger 1050 and my wife had an '06 DL650 V-strom. I felt that my Tiger was superior in almost every respect when compared with the GS, especially engine performance and on-road handling. Brakes I'd call a tie. When the price of the BMW is taken into consideration the GS is not even in the same league, for that kind of money it should far out perform the Tiger. I would even prefer the V-strom to the GS if the difference in price was applied to upgrading the Suzuki's non adjustable suspension and somewhat mushy feeling brakes. At least V-stroms have nearly legendary reliability which is something that BMW needs to work on.
Buffalohead_imp
Been there
I know this may sound crazy, and this may not even be the place for this, but the perfect bike for my purposes is a Honda but I'm thinking now it won't be a CB1100 after all. I waited until the 2014's hoping a black model might be available for my sidecar. I had pretty much decided to buy the DLX and have it painted black.
I was checking out Honda's website about a week ago and I noticed the Shadow Aero 750. I hadn't seen the Aero before and it amazed me how well it matches my sidecar. The fenders are very similar and it comes in black. It won't have the power of the CB but it does have a shaft drive. The spoked wheels match my sidecar's wheel too. I never considered a V-twin but this one is perfect for me. In addition to all of the above mentioned things, I will be able to buy it for only $7500 (!!!). It blows me away that I will still have Honda reliability and save about $4000. But, I know there is no way to compare the two bikes.
I really do love the retro CB but I have to admit the cruiser fits my purpose better. Because of my handicap, the seat that is 5 inches lower than the CB helps greatly. I never considered myself to be a V-twin guy but they're beginning to grow on me. The liquid cooled engine will be reliable too. I guess I won't be hanging out here much any more and that saddens me because you are a great bunch of guy's.
I guess the most important thing is this: When I asked a friend who owned a professional lawn care business which mower I should buy, his response was "Buy the one with the Honda engine".
I was checking out Honda's website about a week ago and I noticed the Shadow Aero 750. I hadn't seen the Aero before and it amazed me how well it matches my sidecar. The fenders are very similar and it comes in black. It won't have the power of the CB but it does have a shaft drive. The spoked wheels match my sidecar's wheel too. I never considered a V-twin but this one is perfect for me. In addition to all of the above mentioned things, I will be able to buy it for only $7500 (!!!). It blows me away that I will still have Honda reliability and save about $4000. But, I know there is no way to compare the two bikes.
I really do love the retro CB but I have to admit the cruiser fits my purpose better. Because of my handicap, the seat that is 5 inches lower than the CB helps greatly. I never considered myself to be a V-twin guy but they're beginning to grow on me. The liquid cooled engine will be reliable too. I guess I won't be hanging out here much any more and that saddens me because you are a great bunch of guy's.
I guess the most important thing is this: When I asked a friend who owned a professional lawn care business which mower I should buy, his response was "Buy the one with the Honda engine".
Tortuga_imp
Been there
Yeah, but I doubt all other bike manufacturers would like to be compared to Briggs & Stratton lol.Buffalohead_imp said:
I have 2 John Deere mowers with B&S engines and they're super reliable and just nice to use.
I also have an Ariens mower with a Kawasaki engine. That thing is sublime. My best weed whackers are Kawasakis too, beat my Stihl 4 mix for power and sheer terror factor.
Anyway, back to my other love. Bikes. :worship:
thessler3_imp
Running like a top
Getting a bit off topic but reliability of most bikes has become excellent in the past 25 years. My 66 Bonneville and 71 Norton Commando required almost continuous repairs. By comparison, my Ducatis and Harleys were trouble free. My Buell had about 4 recalls, but never broke on me. Avoid any Ducati with a plastic tank, especially those older than 2008. Law suit settlement actually makes it more difficult to get a replacement tank. Harley XR1200 has identical problem but Harley support is much better.
In the past year or so, I was shopping for a Griso and a K1200S but stopped looking because of problems reported on forums. I would say the Griso could be a big headache with valve gear problems. K1200s have problems with gas gauges, clutch baskets and vibration.
From reading European and Aussie sites, the CB1100 appears to be reliable. So are the other bikes I am shopping for - the FZ-1 and Ninja 1000.
If you want good customer service, nobody can match Harley Davidson. I called Milwaukee about buying a used XR1200 and they were completely honest about the gas tank issues. They also fixed a paint problem on my 1990 Convertible that was the dealer's fault. No arguments - just help.
In the past year or so, I was shopping for a Griso and a K1200S but stopped looking because of problems reported on forums. I would say the Griso could be a big headache with valve gear problems. K1200s have problems with gas gauges, clutch baskets and vibration.
From reading European and Aussie sites, the CB1100 appears to be reliable. So are the other bikes I am shopping for - the FZ-1 and Ninja 1000.
If you want good customer service, nobody can match Harley Davidson. I called Milwaukee about buying a used XR1200 and they were completely honest about the gas tank issues. They also fixed a paint problem on my 1990 Convertible that was the dealer's fault. No arguments - just help.
Buffalohead_imp
Been there
Yeah, but I doubt all other bike manufacturers would like to be compared to Briggs & Stratton lol.Tortuga_imp said:
I have 2 John Deere mowers with B&S engines and they're super reliable and just nice to use.
I also have an Ariens mower with a Kawasaki engine. That thing is sublime. My best weed whackers are Kawasakis too, beat my Stihl 4 mix for power and sheer terror factor.
Anyway, back to my other love. Bikes. :worship:
Yeah, I'm sure you are correct. Actually, I'm certain the Kawa engine is just as reliable and FWIW, I've had many B&S engines that proved to be very reliable as well.
Red Mist_imp
Been there
Correcto, I completely forgot I'd owned a couple of Harleys. That's because I never had any problems with them. 1200 Sportster Sport and Dyna SuperGlide. Completely trouble free.thessler3_imp said:
V-Strom is not even in the same solar system as the BMW! It would probably take 5-10K miles to really sort out the differences between the BMW and Triumph or Super Tenere. All are undoubtedly fine motorcycles, and riding style dictates which one will work best for any given rider.redbirds_imp said:
That said it occurred to me as I was just riding my CB1100 this afternoon that the BMW 1200GS, Triumph Tiger, Super Tenere, and any of the open-class "Adventure Bikes" are not going to make my list of the "One" bike anyway. They are all just too unwieldy in a tight spot, and particularly the Triumph and Yamaha are very top-heavy. The BMW waterpumper, with the lowering kit, is actually just my size and well-balanced as one might imagine, but for a true middle-weight "Swiss Army Knife" they are just too heavy and certainly cannot handle the tight rough stuff like the F800GS or a similar machine.
In fact I'd pick the CB1100 over any of those because of it's excellent balance and low-speed manners, but the limited cornering clearance and very archaic suspension put it out of the running.
The air/oil-cooled engine is a plus, though, as it's very simple. The Suzuki Katanas used a similar design, albeit much more powerful, and the 750 version (which I owned) was a great all-rounder. Easy to work on, smooth, fast enough, handled very well.
