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Valve Shimming - which side of spec?
#21
(01-31-2021, 08:02 AM)Django_imp Wrote:
(01-31-2021, 02:07 AM)Dave_imp Wrote: spec (IN 0.006, EX 0.011).

The recommended shim size for EXHAUST is fine, but I have two choices for INTAKE. For INTAKE I have choice of 0.065 (recommended) or 0.051 new clearance. I was thinking I should pick 0.051 with the assumption that they will loosen over time.
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I don't understand your numbers. The spec is .006 +/- .001, correct? Where are the values .065 and .051 coming from? Are these the shim thicknesses, or the actual valve clearances, which seems about a factor of 10 off.

Please clarify.

For this valve drive type the valves tighten over time, they do not loosen.
Guess tightening may be the most frequent case. All I have is the valve clearance history, done by the dealers, to go by, which shows some Intakes loosening.
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#22
(01-31-2021, 08:02 AM)Django_imp Wrote:
(01-31-2021, 02:07 AM)Dave_imp Wrote: spec (IN 0.006, EX 0.011).

The recommended shim size for EXHAUST is fine, but I have two choices for INTAKE. For INTAKE I have choice of 0.065 (recommended) or 0.051 new clearance. I was thinking I should pick 0.051 with the assumption that they will loosen over time.
*
I don't understand your numbers. The spec is .006 +/- .001, correct? Where are the values .065 and .051 coming from? Are these the shim thicknesses, or the actual valve clearances, which seems about a factor of 10 off.

Please clarify.

For this valve drive type the valves tighten over time, they do not loosen.

My intake valve is getting loose over time. Not much change for exhaust side. Could be cause by my frequent short ride or overly oiled K&N air filter causing carbon built up.
Personally I would try to aim at the middle of the spec, which ever side which is nearer. Shimming to any side of the spec is acceptable as long as its within the spec.
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#23
My valves have been loose more often than tight.
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#24
(01-31-2021, 03:39 PM)zirconxi_imp Wrote:
(01-31-2021, 08:02 AM)Django_imp Wrote:
(01-31-2021, 02:07 AM)Dave_imp Wrote: spec (IN 0.006, EX 0.011).

The recommended shim size for EXHAUST is fine, but I have two choices for INTAKE. For INTAKE I have choice of 0.065 (recommended) or 0.051 new clearance. I was thinking I should pick 0.051 with the assumption that they will loosen over time.
*
I don't understand your numbers. The spec is .006 +/- .001, correct? Where are the values .065 and .051 coming from? Are these the shim thicknesses, or the actual valve clearances, which seems about a factor of 10 off.

Please clarify.

For this valve drive type the valves tighten over time, they do not loosen.

My intake valve is getting loose over time. Not much change for exhaust side. Could be cause by my frequent short ride or overly oiled K&N air filter causing carbon built up.
Personally I would try to aim at the middle of the spec, which ever side which is nearer. Shimming to any side of the spec is acceptable as long as its within the spec.

My intake valve is getting loose over time. Not much change for exhaust side. Could be cause by my frequent short ride or overly oiled K&N air filter causing carbon built up.
Personally I would try to aim at the middle of the spec, which ever side which is nearer. Shimming to any side of the spec is acceptable as long as its within the spec.
Yeah. If one is going through the time and exercise of getting into the valve area anyway to check the gaps, and if one or more is out - why not just go for as close as possible to mid-point of the spec?
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#25
My thought is if it's in spec, why not leave it alone so you dont have to pull the cams
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#26
(01-31-2021, 11:59 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: My thought is if it's in spec, why not leave it alone so you dont have to pull the cams

Agreed. I am also the believer of if it ain't broken, leave it alone. If in spec, should just leave it alone till it is out of spec. But if it is out, i would aim for the middle.. We will never know if the gap will tighten or loosen over time. Too many variables.
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#27
I think that "Time Is On My Side " when it comes to the valves .....
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#28
(01-31-2021, 11:59 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: My thought is if it's in spec, why not leave it alone so you dont have to pull the cams
I would concur with you Mr Ferret. I have several that were out of spec so time to do the adjustment Smile
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#29
Ahhh unavoidable then
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#30
Mr flint and others have a look at this guy's clip, my advice; spend the time to block any openings with pieces of cloth stuck into them before removing any buckets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL-siybQWco

Nothing to be scared off but learning from someone else's mistakes is the best wayThumbs Up

As for which way the clearance shifts, it seems that over time the manufacturers have balanced valve seating and camlobe wear so they balance each other out by selecting hardness etc. just a wild guess...all we do is a fine adjustment check.

There are engines without shims but different size buckets and they are good for the life of the engine according to the manufacturer.

Here is a quote from the toyota yaris forum;

" I have had motorcycles for 15 years that use the same adjustment set up as on the ECHO and Yaris. Once set properly they tend to last a long time. My 92 ST1100 had 109k on it and was never adjusted. On the other hand, a 2001 BMW I bought new had ZERO clearance on both exhaust valves from the factory. Lucky for me I checked it at 600 miles.

Almost no cars use this system. Frankly I would not trust a Toyota mechanic to do an adjustment. The good news is a CHECK is easy, well within a home mechanics capacity. More good news....very few ECHOs or Yaris's have ever had their valves checked much less adjusted. The origional setting last perhaps the life of the car.

Bad news.

An adjustment is difficult and rarely done by mechanices at Toyota. Also, as the valves wear they receed into the head causing the clearance of the exhust valves to lessn over time. You wind up with tight exhaust valves which burn and cause a valve job.

Good news. You seldom if ever hear of this problem (valve job) I never have.

Recommendation.

Check your adjustment yourself at 60,000 miles. I wtote a proceedure at Edumunds at the ECHO forum. Theres like 6000 posts in it now."
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