Checking valve clearances

[the Ferret]

Holy Cow nearly $1000 for a valve check. If none were out of spec they didn't even have to pull the cams.

[DrewNJ_imp]

Valve checks are often misunderstood by owners and possibly many dealer mechanics too. When a manufacturer gives a clearance range, say 0.14mm - 0.20mm they intend you to leave the shims well alone, if when measured, they are anywhere within that range including the outer limits. They are expecting another check at the next interval and have allowed for extra wear. They are not concerned on the next check if the value ends up at 0.12 or 0.23, they have allowed for this and that is when they expect you to change the shims.

There are plenty of owners and dealers who seem to think the middle value of 0.17 (in my example) is the ideal target gap and re-shim to that. Taking this approach will be the difference between taking the camshafts out every single service interval and possibly not taking them out for the next 100,000 miles.

That's a really good point!
So many assume that your going to burn up valves immediately if the motor is run for any period of time with valves that may be slightly out of spec.

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

Personally, I would not be happy with the "everything was in spec". IMHO- if they can break down the cost of the work down to a single penny, and expect payment down to a single penny, they should also provide and document the findings/results for the work performed. Especially for $875.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

(ouch)

[Enzofour_imp]

Just a quick question. I assume that checking the valve clearances involves removing the cam cover and using feeler gauges to check the clearances without removing anything like the camshafts as would be needed to replace them. I am asking as I want to know what is involved so that i can get some idea of what the cost is likely to be at my local dealer.

Hello, expect a good amount, in addition to the tank you need to remove other stuff, the control units, the plastic cover and the pair pipes.
If it is just a clearance check, it is not necessary to extract the valve cover, just lift it by fixing it to the frame, because removing it is very difficult and requires removing and loosening something else and costs go up.

[PowerDubs_imp]

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

What parts? What supplies? What waste?

Even better- question- what dealer?- so nobody makes the mistake of going there. You got ripped.

As far as 'if I had known'- they should have provided you with a written estimate before doing the work.

Valve checks are often misunderstood by owners and possibly many dealer mechanics too. When a manufacturer gives a clearance range, say 0.14mm - 0.20mm they intend you to leave the shims well alone, if when measured, they are anywhere within that range including the outer limits. They are expecting another check at the next interval and have allowed for extra wear. They are not concerned on the next check if the value ends up at 0.12 or 0.23, they have allowed for this and that is when they expect you to change the shims.

There are plenty of owners and dealers who seem to think the middle value of 0.17 (in my example) is the ideal target gap and re-shim to that. Taking this approach will be the difference between taking the camshafts out every single service interval and possibly not taking them out for the next 100,000 miles.

That's a really good point!
So many assume that your going to burn up valves immediately if the motor is run for any period of time with valves that may be slightly out of spec.

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

Personally, I would not be happy with the "everything was in spec". IMHO- if they can break down the cost of the work down to a single penny, and expect payment down to a single penny, they should also provide and document the findings/results for the work performed. Especially for $875.

Agreed 100%

[Gone in 60]

Good thing I have a nice case on my phone, cause I tossed it across the room when I read $874 for a valve check.

[12milesout]

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

What parts? What supplies? What waste?

Even better- question- what dealer?- so nobody makes the mistake of going there. You got ripped.

As far as 'if I had known'- they should have provided you with a written estimate before doing the work.

Valve checks are often misunderstood by owners and possibly many dealer mechanics too. When a manufacturer gives a clearance range, say 0.14mm - 0.20mm they intend you to leave the shims well alone, if when measured, they are anywhere within that range including the outer limits. They are expecting another check at the next interval and have allowed for extra wear. They are not concerned on the next check if the value ends up at 0.12 or 0.23, they have allowed for this and that is when they expect you to change the shims.

There are plenty of owners and dealers who seem to think the middle value of 0.17 (in my example) is the ideal target gap and re-shim to that. Taking this approach will be the difference between taking the camshafts out every single service interval and possibly not taking them out for the next 100,000 miles.

That's a really good point!
So many assume that your going to burn up valves immediately if the motor is run for any period of time with valves that may be slightly out of spec.

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

Personally, I would not be happy with the "everything was in spec". IMHO- if they can break down the cost of the work down to a single penny, and expect payment down to a single penny, they should also provide and document the findings/results for the work performed. Especially for $875.

Agreed 100%

The parts were the 5 head cover gaskets and the 8 seals for the head cover bolts. It looks like the charged approx 50% above the online pricing, which isn't all that surprising. I'm not sure how they calculate shop supplies and waste, but it seems to be what a lot of shops are doing these days. I wasn't provided with a written quote before they did the work; I made the appointment almost a month ago, and had a narrow window of time in which to get it done.

[max]

Just a quick question. I assume that checking the valve clearances involves removing the cam cover and using feeler gauges to check the clearances without removing anything like the camshafts as would be needed to replace them. I am asking as I want to know what is involved so that i can get some idea of what the cost is likely to be at my local dealer.

Hello, expect a good amount, in addition to the tank you need to remove other stuff, the control units, the plastic cover and the pair pipes.
If it is just a clearance check, it is not necessary to extract the valve cover, just lift it by fixing it to the frame, because removing it is very difficult and requires removing and loosening something else and costs go up.

Thanks very much Enzo, that's very useful info and i will try this next time.

Never thought about this, very helpful tip

[GoldOxide_imp]

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

What parts? What supplies? What waste?

Even better- question- what dealer?- so nobody makes the mistake of going there. You got ripped.

As far as 'if I had known'- they should have provided you with a written estimate before doing the work.

Valve checks are often misunderstood by owners and possibly many dealer mechanics too. When a manufacturer gives a clearance range, say 0.14mm - 0.20mm they intend you to leave the shims well alone, if when measured, they are anywhere within that range including the outer limits. They are expecting another check at the next interval and have allowed for extra wear. They are not concerned on the next check if the value ends up at 0.12 or 0.23, they have allowed for this and that is when they expect you to change the shims.

There are plenty of owners and dealers who seem to think the middle value of 0.17 (in my example) is the ideal target gap and re-shim to that. Taking this approach will be the difference between taking the camshafts out every single service interval and possibly not taking them out for the next 100,000 miles.

That's a really good point!
So many assume that your going to burn up valves immediately if the motor is run for any period of time with valves that may be slightly out of spec.

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

Personally, I would not be happy with the "everything was in spec". IMHO- if they can break down the cost of the work down to a single penny, and expect payment down to a single penny, they should also provide and document the findings/results for the work performed. Especially for $875.

Agreed 100%

lol - Ensure to set-up "tamper evident sites" around the cam cover area to at least show they looked inside.

[DrewNJ_imp]

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

What parts? What supplies? What waste?

Even better- question- what dealer?- so nobody makes the mistake of going there. You got ripped.

As far as 'if I had known'- they should have provided you with a written estimate before doing the work.

Valve checks are often misunderstood by owners and possibly many dealer mechanics too. When a manufacturer gives a clearance range, say 0.14mm - 0.20mm they intend you to leave the shims well alone, if when measured, they are anywhere within that range including the outer limits. They are expecting another check at the next interval and have allowed for extra wear. They are not concerned on the next check if the value ends up at 0.12 or 0.23, they have allowed for this and that is when they expect you to change the shims.

There are plenty of owners and dealers who seem to think the middle value of 0.17 (in my example) is the ideal target gap and re-shim to that. Taking this approach will be the difference between taking the camshafts out every single service interval and possibly not taking them out for the next 100,000 miles.

That's a really good point!
So many assume that your going to burn up valves immediately if the motor is run for any period of time with valves that may be slightly out of spec.

Picked mine up Thursday evening. I had asked for a breakdown of the clearances when i dropped it off, but didn't get one. Everything was in spec, but they didn't say what the observed clearances were. Total was $875; had I known that ahead of time, I probably would have opted to do it myself.

Labor: 5 hours @ 129.00 $645.00
Parts: 126.52
Shop supplies 38.06
waste disposal 12.90
tax 52.23

Total $874.71

Personally, I would not be happy with the "everything was in spec". IMHO- if they can break down the cost of the work down to a single penny, and expect payment down to a single penny, they should also provide and document the findings/results for the work performed. Especially for $875.

Agreed 100%

lol - Ensure to set-up "tamper evident sites" around the cam cover area to at least show they looked inside.

lol - Ensure to set-up "tamper evident sites" around the cam cover area to at least show they looked inside.
You laugh, but my nutcase brother-in-law marks his oil filters on his cars before taking them in for an oil change.