CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[peterbaron]

Flushing ECU ...updating software... EEPROM....
Understand what you want before proceeding further...wouldn't be wise to inquire Honda now, during slow/winter season??
Read this article for better understanding, especially those, not automotive oriented members, please.

http://www.totalcardiagnostics.com/suppo...-reprogram

Good luck to all having problems with RPM/stalling...


pb

[dave]

The TPS on my 2014 standard is Keihin JT6H 40226.

Hi Sportster Doc. I am going back and re-reading all the trouble-shooting posts and wanted to comment on the fact that your 2014 standard TPS part number is JT6H 40226, while my 2014 Dlx part number is JT6H 40116. I wonder if this means anything (Honda upgraded the sensor at some point?).
...Then, while I was cleaning electrical connections, I remember that I was using a cheap battery from Autozone and decided to replace it with a motobatt battery. ... I waited 3000 miles to report my problem/solution just to make sure the problem was solved. I know that my case can be an isolated case but hopefully it helps someone one day. cheers.[/quote]

I replaced my battery with a new YUASA battery and it did not cure the idle problem.

[DaSwami_imp]

Sooooo where are we at with this? Seems like we still do not have a definite cause/cure for this problem with 70 pages and hundreds of posts?? It seems we have more bikes affected than ever (which makes sense with more bikes sold and time ridden)?

[SportsterDoc]

The TPS on my 2014 standard is Keihin JT6H 40226.

Hi Sportster Doc. I am going back and re-reading all the trouble-shooting posts and wanted to comment on the fact that your 2014 standard TPS part number is JT6H 40226, while my 2014 Dlx part number is JT6H 40116. I wonder if this means anything (Honda upgraded the sensor at some point?).
...Then, while I was cleaning electrical connections, I remember that I was using a cheap battery from Autozone and decided to replace it with a motobatt battery. ... I waited 3000 miles to report my problem/solution just to make sure the problem was solved. I know that my case can be an isolated case but hopefully it helps someone one day. cheers.

I replaced my battery with a new YUASA battery and it did not cure the idle problem.
[/quote]
The Keihin JTG6 for sale on the web all have different 5 number suffixes, if the suffix is even listed.

Google 16402-RAA-A01 for Honda CR-V 2.4 liter or
16060-MBZ-A11 for 2006 Honda CB600F

At this point I do not know the significance of the suffix or if it has any significance.

AFAIK all TPS, including automotive, are powered by 5 VDC and send out ~0.5 VDC at idle and ~4.5 VDC full throttle.

The mounting slots appear the same and the connection to the throttle body shaft appears to be the same.

Your mission, should you chose to accept it, is to get suffix educated...if it matters.

Meanwhile if the electrical connector pins are all seated in each housing cavity, contact mating surfaces are clean, then electrical tests of the TPS should be done before purchasing a replacement.

Pages 5-23 thru 5-25 of the FSM cover full diagnostics, but a Honda instrument is required for some testing. Max's video will tell you a lot.

Sooooo where are we at with this? Seems like we still do not have a definite cause/cure for this problem with 70 pages and hundreds of posts?? It seems we have more bikes affected than ever (which makes sense with more bikes sold and time ridden)?

Max has been corresponding via PM with several posters, to gather data.

I posted a summary on Dec 27 (post 651) with earlier info in posts 615 and 618 (page 62) and 622 (page 63).

At this point, a conclusion requires test results. I continue to expect that this is not just one issue: A check for vacuum leaks and loose connections is a good start.

BTW, the Yamaha dealer found a home for my Moto Guzzi V7II.
Youngster from New York was looking for one.
It sold for what I was credited...dealer did not profit or lose...other than selling me the 2018 Yamaha XT250.

Ridden at the same speeds, my CB1100 at 1140 cc, is getting about the same MPG as the 744 cc V7 II.

On this forum, how many CB1100 have an unsolved idle?

Max, what is your tally?

[peterbaron]

error

[max]

Thanks everybody for the sympathy towards affected riders, Doc, i would conservatively estimate around 30 and counting down.

Peterbarron, well put about updating software, if anyone has seen what software looks like, its a bit like this;
------3c cf 1g bc 3d 5f----- and goes for pages, get one of these instructions wrong and you get a very expensive paperweight, and add to that the hiss system honda incorporates which made honda motorbikes theft drop to near zero and you get a better more realistic picture of the complexity and risk management of ecm control, what would you say to someone that has his ecm reflashed, installed it into his bike and now does not even cycle on startup?

another safer approach is to buy an ecm on ebay, send it over to get updated and then swap it with the original, that cost $502. for the ecu ( have a look ) but is likely not going to work because of the hiss ( i now know hiss is not applicable in the us thanks to another member but still ).

One thing that i would like to find an answer to is; the bike ran fine for a while with the current software, WHAT CHANGED ?

Compare all this to replacing a tps ( which may be the culprit in the first place, let's find out ) and the choice becomes obvious, be very careful what you advise and make responsible suggestions.

It seems a long process but a lot of factors get in the way, we have only one guy, Dave to work with and he does a stellar job at the moment, i would really like to have more participants, but apart from john ( repaired ) and pdedse ( solved by selling the bike ) none have come forward, which slows the process down.

it may be we don't find a solution but i think we will and it feels closer than ever, the trick is to just stay calm and take careful steps forward.

i really like the phrase from doc ; At this point, a conclusion requires test results.

max

[max]

here is a more in depth thread about tps sensors, not the same type but all operate in a similar way in a different housing; http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/fz6-fz6...ls-25.html

Notice the similarity in complaints with our situation, that is what made me lean toward the tps.

max

[peterbaron]

[quote='max' pid='193069' dateline='1516478728


i really like the phrase from doc ; At this point, a conclusion requires test results.


another safer approach is to buy an ecm on ebay, send it over to get updated and then swap it with the original, that cost $502. for the ecu ( have a look ) but is likely not going to work because of the hiss ( i now know hiss is not applicable in the us thanks to another member but still ).


max
[/quote]

AT LAST !!!!!ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

AND

Buying ECM from different sources than Honda...may not work due to VIN writing ++ more, and even if you get OEM may need to visit Honda so their tech will write in VIN & install latest update!!!!!!!!, no kidding...... I deal with this often*
If you dig, know where and how!!! or learn a hard way by spending big $$$$$$$$ or start from zero again.

* I am not associated with Honda but different/same Asian automaker since 1983

Good luck

pb

[SportsterDoc]

TPS issues are real, but usually after a long service life.
My wife had a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.3 V6 and it went into limp mode while I was driving. Top speed about 10 MPH. After restarting, it behaved normal. After it did it again, I replaced the TPS. May have only been a connection issue, especially since I routinely clean the engine.,,but it had about 120,000 miles on the odometer.

Not wanting to experience limp mode again, it was best to replace it....no tests done other than using my OBDII plug-in unit.

However, with a fairly new TPS (age or miles), with little operation to damage the internal wipers, I remain skeptical that Keihin produced very many defective units.

I have not opened one, but expect the wipers to be redundant several times over *. Failure could occur if
a. All the wipers broke or lost spring pressure
b. Resistor damaged/worn
c. A lot of crud inside.

* The industrial automation company that fed my family for decades built systems to assemble and test several automotive sensors. All the ones with moving parts for variable resistance had multiple wipers (contact fingers).

Again, since the issue is intermittent and with sensors relatively young, I would thoroughly check for good connector connections.

[peterbaron]

TPS issues are real, but usually after a long service life.
My wife had a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.3 V6 and it went into limp mode while I was driving. Top speed about 10 MPH. After restarting, it behaved normal. After it did it again, I replaced the TPS. May have only been a connection issue, especially since I routinely clean the engine.,,but it had about 120,000 miles on the odometer.

Not wanting to experience limp mode again, it was best to replace it....no tests done other than using my OBDII plug-in unit.

However, with a fairly new TPS (age or miles), with little operation to damage the internal wipers, I remain skeptical that Keihin produced very many defective units.

I have not opened one, but expect the wipers to be redundant several times over *. Failure could occur if
a. All the wipers broke or lost spring pressure
b. Resistor damaged/worn
c. A lot of crud inside.

* The industrial automation company that fed my family for decades built systems to assemble and test several automotive sensors. All the ones with moving parts for variable resistance had multiple wipers (contact fingers).

Again, since the issue is intermittent and with sensors relatively young, I would thoroughly check for good connector connections.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you still have it????......
A good Hyundai tech and a friend of mine told me this::

Some Santa Fe with 3.3L engine may experience a MIL with the ETC (Electronic Throttle Control) system-related DTC P2135
-P2135:Throttle position sensor 1/2 voltage correlation) or P0110 or P0128 P0300 or P030X or P0638 and others.
An improved Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and ECM software upgrade or complete updated throttle body are available to resolve this condition.

pb