valve timing inaccuracy?

[ClassicVW_imp]

Where is it said that they purposely put in more vibration? I'd like to read that.

[AndyHe_imp]

Here's the quote that I think shows what they were trying to get to but perhaps there were some side-effects such as vibration at certain RPMs that some people might consider the downside of their design decisions. To OldF7Guy's point, the trade offs between rumble versus smoothness are quite subjective.

From http://world.honda.com/CB1100/engineer-talk/episode1/ ...

Sekiya:
On the hardware side, phased valve timing gives the engine its characteristic feel around the 3,000 rpm range. How did you create the engine's personality?

Minami:
Basically, straight-four engines run smooth as long as all four pistons move the same way. My initial thoughts were, to give the engine a deep rumble, we'd have to change the movement a bit.
We ended up shifting the valve timing of cylinders 1 and 2, compared to cylinders 3 and 4, and by continuing to change the gap, found the right combustion out-of-sync feel.

Sekiya:
Valve timing is usually changed or made variable to increase output, but your aim was completely different. Maybe the exact opposite of conventional wisdom.

[CIP57_imp]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.
Hm, looks like this generates some strong reactions and I can understand why. Some people really like the bike as it is, others wonder what it would have been like had Honda not made a few changes to make the bike more "retro".

While I agree that the bike is very different from a CB1000R which is why I like it and it doesn't have to be fully modern (such as the CBR's 124HP and much better suspension), I'm not quite sure I agree with the rational of taking a fine inline four and purposely making it not work as well as it could given it's design. It's one thing to say "how can we take this fine inline four and make it better" but another to say "this fine inline four is just too smooth... let's make it rougher" which is what they admit to in the engineer's viewpoint piece that Honda published.

Now I will complete admit I'm a noob here as I haven't even picked up my bike. But I will also say that from an engineer's viewpoint, I understand OldF7Guy's point that it may have been a mistake to go as far as putting in a camshaft that explicitly is suboptimal just for more vibration.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.
Hm, looks like this generates some strong reactions and I can understand why. Some people really like the bike as it is, others wonder what it would have been like had Honda not made a few changes to make the bike more "retro".

While I agree that the bike is very different from a CB1000R which is why I like it and it doesn't have to be fully modern (such as the CBR's 124HP and much better suspension), I'm not quite sure I agree with the rational of taking a fine inline four and purposely making it not work as well as it could given it's design. It's one thing to say "how can we take this fine inline four and make it better" but another to say "this fine inline four is just too smooth... let's make it rougher" which is what they admit to in the engineer's viewpoint piece that Honda published.

Now I will complete admit I'm a noob here as I haven't even picked up my bike. But I will also say that from an engineer's viewpoint, I understand OldF7Guy's point that it may have been a mistake to go as far as putting in a camshaft that explicitly is suboptimal just for more vibration.
Andy,

Good luck with your new bike.

The quote (You Think So) is with direct agreement with what F7 said, why take perfect cam lobe and change it to increase engine noise and decrease HP, make no sense. We can also go a bit further regarding 18 inch wheels etc.

F7 is a nice guy, I was just saying what I'm sure others are thinking.

[gossman_imp]

Most riders complain that Honda engineers the soul out of their motorcycles. Now that they have designed some personality into one some are unhappy. Can't make everyone happy.....but I certainly am!

[AndyHe_imp]

I just returned from test riding the bike at the dealership. The bike does vibrate more than I would have expected at 3500-4000 RPM in second gear but I figure I typically won't be leaving at that RPM for long periods of time. I didn't get a chance to try it on the freeway. If I find it annoying after riding it many miles then I'll research replacing the intake camshaft with a balanced one as that shouldn't be impossible. Any decent speed shop should be able to do it with no problem.

[Houtman_imp]

Do give it enough time before you make changes , I have hardly any vibration on both of my CB 1100's

[AndyHe_imp]

Do give it enough time before you make changes , I have hardly any vibration on both of my CB 1100's

Definitely will get some miles on it before I decide to do anything that radical.

[Insolentsquid_imp]

Jeez there's some touchy people out there!

All he asked was "i wonder what the engine would be like if they hadn't designed some character into it" and all of a sudden he's being burned at the stake for blasphemy!

Let's face it, the bike is an oddball - instead of being designed to meet a demand in the market which would lead to a profitable line of sales, it seems to have been designed almost as an indulgence to one man's ideal of a superbike from his youth with the gnarly bits knocked off.

We saw, we test rode, we shared the indulgence.

I still smile when I imagine the conversation where the engine designers were told:
"Yes we KNOW that you can make this engine as smooth as a baby's bottom, but......."

[Ridem32_imp]

Insolentsquid be careful what you say. You will get put in time out!! Lol. We all have different thoughts about the motor. To me the bike should run and ride and brake like a 13 or 14 model bike and look like a 70,s model we grew up on. So I had my ecm reflashed and added the farkles I want for my bike. It's mine! To me the motor should run as smooth as my new 13 model CB1000r. No need to feel viberation on a new bike when honda can produce the smoothest motors known to man.
The wait will tell the story. If a 15 model don't come out there want be many CB1100 bikes in the USA. And fewer deluxe models. Come on 30 years from now! My (2) grandsons will love ole poor grandpaw

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Jeez there's some touchy people out there!

All he asked was "i wonder what the engine would be like if they hadn't designed some character into it" and all of a sudden he's being burned at the stake for blasphemy!

Let's face it, the bike is an oddball - instead of being designed to meet a demand in the market which would lead to a profitable line of sales, it seems to have been designed almost as an indulgence to one man's ideal of a superbike from his youth with the gnarly bits knocked off.

We saw, we test rode, we shared the indulgence.

I still smile when I imagine the conversation where the engine designers were told:
"Yes we KNOW that you can make this engine as smooth as a baby's bottom, but......."

You know, I have serious doubts about these "conversations" with the design team. It's straight out of Honda PR. I think the concept of the CB1100 was knocked out on a Friday evening after a few stress levelling bottles of Saki, translated to a drawing on the back of a paper napkin during a recovery session on Saturday morning and was in production on Monday. I love it. .

Cheers