BMW rider thinking of returning to Honda

[the Ferret]

Now, having hit 10k miles on the CB...I can comment on chain maintenance. As simple as a spray can of lube. Takes five minutes; the small can fits in a pouch on the outside of my travel grip.

I figure on replacing the chain every season or 10,000 miles. Cost, I'm told, will be about $100. Maybe twice that.

Compare that to the nightmare of having a final-drive failure on the road, and then weighing an expensive rebuild and repair versus the value of the machine.

No thanks...given the problems related to marginal engineering on BMW systems...I'll stick to the high-quality chain drive of this CB.

JPT.. Your chain should go 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Replacing one every 10k is a waste of money.

As far as final drives go.. If they are done right, they are gold.. Zero maintenance other than a few ounces of oil, clean, same efficiency 100% of the time. My shaft system on my ST has 62,000 trouble free miles on it. On a modern chain drive bike I would be on my third set of chain and sprockets. Close to $1000 worth of repairs if I did the labor myself, which is no fun.

Many on the ST board see 200-300 thousand miles on their final drives without repair, and who knows how many miles have been put on Goldwings without final drive failures. The problem isn't final drives, it's BMW's final drives.

I would have died and gone to heaven if the CB had had hydraulic valves ( like the Nighthawk) and shaft drive like the ST while retaining the CB's stunning looks.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Now, having hit 10k miles on the CB...I can comment on chain maintenance. As simple as a spray can of lube. Takes five minutes; the small can fits in a pouch on the outside of my travel grip.

I figure on replacing the chain every season or 10,000 miles. Cost, I'm told, will be about $100. Maybe twice that.

Compare that to the nightmare of having a final-drive failure on the road, and then weighing an expensive rebuild and repair versus the value of the machine.

No thanks...given the problems related to marginal engineering on BMW systems...I'll stick to the high-quality chain drive of this CB.

JPT.. Your chain should go 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Replacing one every 10k is a waste of money.

As far as final drives go.. If they are done right, they are gold.. Zero maintenance other than a few ounces of oil, clean, same efficiency 100% of the time. My shaft system on my ST has 62,000 trouble free miles on it. On a modern chain drive bike I would be on my third set of chain and sprockets. Close to $1000 worth of repairs if I did the labor myself, which is no fun.

Many on the ST board see 200-300 thousand miles on their final drives without repair, and who knows how many miles have been put on Goldwings without final drive failures. The problem isn't final drives, it's BMW's final drives.

I would have died and gone to heaven if the CB had had hydraulic valves ( like the Nighthawk) and shaft drive like the ST while retaining the CB's stunning looks.

Agreed on that. One thing that led me to BMWs years ago was the shaft-drive. Looks so sturdy, compared to the naked chain.

And it could be. And WAS, years ago, even on BMWs. Used to be, they were paragons of reliability and value.

Times change, sadly.

I ALSO once had a high-mileage Honda GL500...with the CX500 engine and driveline in it. That low-volume, short-lived machine had no support from Honda (I needed brake parts that were NOT to be found) but the engineering was above reproach. The theme was the same on that machine: Conservatively-engineered; understressed; bulletproof. Never TOUCHED the final drive housing.

But, given today's technologies, chain-drive is no longer something to aggressively avoid.

[Riko_imp]

My personal, unscientific theory is that the final drives are fine if you are a skinny German guy riding to Austria. But if you are a typical (large) American with a three week supply of clothes in your side bags and tail bag with a 6 liter tank bag and camping gear strapped to the rear seat, all of that weight goes beyond the design specs and the drives go TU.

Me personally, I've never had an issue with the BMW FD units, but then I weigh less than a hummingbird and rarely carry a bunch of stuff, and I've usually flipped the bikes before they got too many miles on them anyway.

Ah, I was going to post something, but I misread your comment. I agree that the shaft drives are probably more fragile than chains, however, they offer some advantages: they're sealed against weather and their maintenance interval is a lot higher. BMW has shaft drive on their K1600 which is a 700+lbs bike with 125+lbs/ft torque. I haven't heard much, if any, on shaft drive failures on that bike.

Ah, I was going to post something, but I misread your comment. I agree that the shaft drives are probably more fragile than chains, however, they offer some advantages: they're sealed against weather and their maintenance interval is a lot higher. BMW has shaft drive on their K1600 which is a 700+lbs bike with 125+lbs/ft torque. I haven't heard much, if any, on shaft drive failures on that bike.
true but you should search "the net" about all the other issues this bike is (in)famous for....

a google search with the word combination of the designation name of BMW's flagship, with the words problem or issue delivers a bit too much results

I've been on the K1600 forum since the bike came out. The major problems are/were: clunky transmission (no fix and never acknowledged, however, 2014+ bikes have much better transmissions according to owners), handlebar switches which was addressed, and the weird pull left some bikes exhibit. IMO, there aren't really that many problems at all with the bike. I test rode a 2012, clunky transmission and all, and thought it was fine. Not the best tranny I ever rode, but not the worst, either.

I've been on the K1600 forum since the bike came out. The major problems are/were: clunky transmission (no fix and never acknowledged, however, 2014+ bikes have much better transmissions according to owners), handlebar switches which was addressed, and the weird pull left some bikes exhibit. IMO, there aren't really that many problems at all with the bike. I test rode a 2012, clunky transmission and all, and thought it was fine. Not the best tranny I ever rode, but not the worst, either.
You left out two of the biggest problems with the K1600-

The water pumps that failed so often on so many of those early bikes that riders were reduced to carrying a spare pump along when their K16 was actually rideable.

And the bikes that would suddenly and without warning shut off, even if you were in the left lane of an interstate. Very unsafe. I don't think this problem was ever acknowledged by BMW.

And those handlebar switches! Some people had theirs replaced TEN TIMES OR MORE before BMW was able to engineer a better replacement. And that was an issue on multiple models not just the K16. Mine failed on my R1200RT. And for a while the actual advice given to us by the BMW techs was to go get a bag of ice and place that on the switch to cool it down and you should be able to start the bike! Or, if you weren't near a store the advice was to carry a can of compressed air to shoot over the switch in an attempt to cool it!

The $4,100 clutch jobs and the $2,000 final drive jobs were the reason I ran away from BMW and back to Honda after almost 15years and 10 bikes. I didn't even keep the one that I won in their Superstakes. For me, there was too much to worry about while out riding.

I've read this is actually caused by those faulty handle bar switches, the right one I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYFi9ebU8w

[ClassicVW_imp]

My personal, unscientific theory is that the final drives are fine if you are a skinny German guy riding to Austria. But if you are a typical (large) American with a three week supply of clothes in your side bags and tail bag with a 6 liter tank bag and camping gear strapped to the rear seat, all of that weight goes beyond the design specs and the drives go TU.

Me personally, I've never had an issue with the BMW FD units, but then I weigh less than a hummingbird and rarely carry a bunch of stuff, and I've usually flipped the bikes before they got too many miles on them anyway.

Ah, I was going to post something, but I misread your comment. I agree that the shaft drives are probably more fragile than chains, however, they offer some advantages: they're sealed against weather and their maintenance interval is a lot higher. BMW has shaft drive on their K1600 which is a 700+lbs bike with 125+lbs/ft torque. I haven't heard much, if any, on shaft drive failures on that bike.

Ah, I was going to post something, but I misread your comment. I agree that the shaft drives are probably more fragile than chains, however, they offer some advantages: they're sealed against weather and their maintenance interval is a lot higher. BMW has shaft drive on their K1600 which is a 700+lbs bike with 125+lbs/ft torque. I haven't heard much, if any, on shaft drive failures on that bike.
true but you should search "the net" about all the other issues this bike is (in)famous for....

a google search with the word combination of the designation name of BMW's flagship, with the words problem or issue delivers a bit too much results

I've been on the K1600 forum since the bike came out. The major problems are/were: clunky transmission (no fix and never acknowledged, however, 2014+ bikes have much better transmissions according to owners), handlebar switches which was addressed, and the weird pull left some bikes exhibit. IMO, there aren't really that many problems at all with the bike. I test rode a 2012, clunky transmission and all, and thought it was fine. Not the best tranny I ever rode, but not the worst, either.

I've been on the K1600 forum since the bike came out. The major problems are/were: clunky transmission (no fix and never acknowledged, however, 2014+ bikes have much better transmissions according to owners), handlebar switches which was addressed, and the weird pull left some bikes exhibit. IMO, there aren't really that many problems at all with the bike. I test rode a 2012, clunky transmission and all, and thought it was fine. Not the best tranny I ever rode, but not the worst, either.
You left out two of the biggest problems with the K1600-

The water pumps that failed so often on so many of those early bikes that riders were reduced to carrying a spare pump along when their K16 was actually rideable.

And the bikes that would suddenly and without warning shut off, even if you were in the left lane of an interstate. Very unsafe. I don't think this problem was ever acknowledged by BMW.

And those handlebar switches! Some people had theirs replaced TEN TIMES OR MORE before BMW was able to engineer a better replacement. And that was an issue on multiple models not just the K16. Mine failed on my R1200RT. And for a while the actual advice given to us by the BMW techs was to go get a bag of ice and place that on the switch to cool it down and you should be able to start the bike! Or, if you weren't near a store the advice was to carry a can of compressed air to shoot over the switch in an attempt to cool it!

The $4,100 clutch jobs and the $2,000 final drive jobs were the reason I ran away from BMW and back to Honda after almost 15years and 10 bikes. I didn't even keep the one that I won in their Superstakes. For me, there was too much to worry about while out riding.

I've read this is actually caused by those faulty handle bar switches, the right one I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYFi9ebU8w

I've read this is actually caused by those faulty handle bar switches, the right one I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYFi9ebU8w
I agree with one of the commenters below that YouTube video:

A Japanese bike has never left me stranded. And I've owned a few that were 30+ years old.

[rotor]

why and from wich bike to wich bmw?

just curious

Why is because I've only had Jap I-4 bikes (used to ride sportbikes) and want something else. BMW, Ducati, even considering a H-D.

From which is a CB1100, to which I'm not 100% sure about yet. If I add no money, then maybe a R1150RT or K1200S (although that is an I-4). If I add some money to what I would get for the CB, then an R1200-something.

I'm prepared to try anything, as long as the engine is an I-4. Why? For the power to "travel mass" ratio I feel I need for a ride that's both safe and enjoyable (min. 150, max. 200 Watts per kilogram mass) there's very little around that is not an I-4.