Reasons to like CB1100 STD model vs. DLX

[Rebel73_imp]

You can train all you want to be proficient at braking, but at the moment of truth, when panic and adrenaline kick in, are you sure you won't lock them up? The statistics are out there. Riders with ABS are 33% less likely to be in a fatal crash.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

You can train all you want to be proficient at braking, but at the moment of truth, when panic and adrenaline kick in, are you sure you won't lock them up? The statistics are out there. Riders with ABS are 33% less likely to be in a fatal crash.

Yes. I've been at threshold braking scores of times on many different bikes, sometimes just practicing, sometimes in an emergency maneuver. My last track day at Chuckwalla, playing around with corner entry speeds, I had to haul it in a couple of times at the last minute, really trail-braking while leaned over. I don't like to do that but once in a while it happens. You learn not to lock them up ever, even at 30+ degrees lean, you can feel what is going on through training and experience. That was about a month ago, I try to keep current.

Whenever I ride I always practice threshold braking, had the CB1100 howling after getting the stainless lines installed. Very good brakes.

If anyone thinks this is bragging, it's no more bragging than posting all kinds of pictures of 10 grand worth of mods.

I put the mods into my skills and I'm as qualified to comment on them as someone else is on how well they can do something else like apply pinstriping or degree cams or whatever is their thing.

I would actually choose to strike an obstacle while still upright under maximum braking before just "locking up the brakes."

The word "panic" does not enter into it. If you are in a panic you have no control. I have been there and done that so I know.

Learning to brake proficiently is no more difficult than learning to bring a forkful of food to one's mouth without stabbing oneself in the eye, practice makes perfect. Seriously.

ABS releases much earlier than maximum braking even on the best bikes. I can't use it, I disconnected it on my BMW.

Here is just ONE little example of what happens on the freeway or street and what knowing how to threshold brake can do to get you out of a mess instead of deeper into it.

This happened to me about a year ago. Posted it to another forum and am copying it here.


Heading home on the freeway today, huge major metropolitan area, almost downtown. LOTS of traffic, zipping along 70 mph in #1 (far left) lane.

EASED into the #2 lane with serious headcheck and mirror check, nice, clear spot.

Just settled in and then Nissan Altima, in #3 lane (one to my right) maybe 100 feet ahead of me freaking LOCKS up the brakes, I mean STOMPS them to the floor, smoke pouring off all four tires.

The car starts to spin CCW, the front is drifting into my lane and the car slowing quite rapidly as it is now nearly sideways to direction of travel and mind you this all started at 70 mph. So I get a real catbird seat view, I mean I am in the orchestra pit here and am now just about on top of this car.

Now the driver decides to release the brakes and steer hard right so you guessed it, the rear end of the car now swings around almost 180 degrees, now I am really right on top of this thing and reading the freaking serial numbers on the tires.

Soon as all this started up I had brought the front brakes, with one finger, to about 80 percent of threshold braking and was just holding it right there waiting to see some daylight out of this mess.

Just about the time I was almost into the right rear quarter panel and the car was perpendicular to my direction of travel, all kinds of smoke pouring off his tires, he STOPPED drifting to the left, almost completely in my lane.

I see some daylight in the #1 lane, released most of my brakes just keeping some in to help the bike turn, snapped it over into the leftmost lane, freaking went around him with maybe 2-3 feet to spare.

I hammered the gas and gave the guy a thumbs-up as I could see in my mirrors the car was totally sideways but slowing and looked like traffic was somehow getting around him (or her, don't know).

Got off at my exit, more or less.

So, the car's ABS did zero to help this totally unskilled driver. I had a front row seat here.

If I had had ABS on my bike (did not as I go full analog jacket here, 2012 GSX-R 750) I would have hit the car most likely because even the SLIGHTEST reduction in brake pressure would have had me catching him up and thumping him.

So the point to this is anyone who believes ABS is somehow going to save them is ill-advised.

Only thing that saved my skin out there (other than the grace of the Almighty) was years and years of riding off-road and track days. And practice, practice, practice.

If I had hesitated even an instant before using that one finger to bring in the max possible braking whilst still allowing some steering input, I would have hit the car.

It was just that close.

ABS saves unskilled riders from the most egregious mistakes. It may save "panic braking" riders from locking the front or rear. That's what ABS is for, that and slippery surfaces.

Don't count on ABS to save your hide, practice your braking, it will save you someday.

BTW this whole thing was over in about 4-5 seconds. I re-visualized it in my mind afterward and counted it out.

Not everyone has to change up their bike visually, but everyone has to ride their bike so everyone should learn to brake and turn as best they can.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Tuesdays with Nick are pretty cool. Like I said we all have to actually ride the motorcycle even if we don't do so much as to add RLETs as a modification.

[url=http://www.cycleworld.com/keith-code-on-going-racing-eddie-lawson-on-nerves-nick-ienatsch-tuesday]Racers, track-day riders, and street riders, please apply Keith’s advice to whatever level of riding you are attempting. Commit to it. Work out to be more fit. Play mental games to improve your focus. Seek education from trusted sources. I left Keith’s house that night with his advice ringing in my ears and my racing became much simpler: Bring your best effort or stay home.
-Nick Ienatsch, on Keith Code
[url=http://www.cycleworld.com/keith-code-on-going-racing-eddie-lawson-on-nerves-nick-ienatsch-tuesday][attachment=5571]

[Offroad]

Nice description! It's weird how the mind processes a few seconds should we live to tell about it ;-)

[the Ferret]

" So, the car's ABS did zero to help this totally unskilled driver". I had a front row seat here."

If the Altima driver locked up all 4 wheels with smoke coming off the tires he did not have ABS, and the reason he lost control. A skidding object ( car or motorcycle) is an out of control vehicle, as you described.

A combination of skill and God's generosity has saved me more than once. Can't say it was all skill, there was obviously some divine intervention involved. The shakes afterwards were totally on me though. I have braked to the threshold of lock up many times though. It can be done with enough experience.

[Django]

If your bike has ABS, it's a good ride to train to break as hard as possible just before locking, no harm, if you overdo.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

" So, the car's ABS did zero to help this totally unskilled driver". I had a front row seat here."

If the Altima driver locked up all 4 wheels with smoke coming off the tires he did not have ABS, and the reason he lost control. A skidding object ( car or motorcycle) is an out of control vehicle, as you described.

A combination of skill and God's generosity has saved me more than once. Can't say it was all skill, there was obviously some divine intervention involved. The shakes afterwards were totally on me though. I have braked to the threshold of lock up many times though. It can be done with enough experience.

Yes, the car had ABS. It was a late-model Altima. I looked into this because I was surprised at what happened. I researched the year/model. The car is not, and has never been, available without ABS. Cars with ABS, contrary to popular belief, can and do skid under certain circumstances. I see it all the time. I, like most of us, own a car or two with ABS. I can get the wheels to lock on dry pavement and on the dirt.

ABS is not perfect nor is it always a lifesaver and that's what the story illustrates. The driver stomped the brakes to the floor and also failed to steer the car properly.

That car spun around in complete 360-degree circles, several times, reversing direction as I stated. At one point I nearly could have reached out and touched it.

Sure, there will be some who just don't believe it, they think I am making this up, or couldn't possibly have pulled off this kind of save. That's OK. Believe it or don't believe it, doesn't matter.

It really is high time that more people took an interest in truly understanding the safety systems on our vehicles and what they can and can't do. ABS doesn't prevent lockup on a car under every circumstance, and it won't stop you faster on a motorcycle.

The sooner riders understand these things the sooner they'll divest themselves of a false sense of security and ride accordingly.

The only thing I am interested in is rider education, training, and safety, through better control of the motorcycle and better choices and strategies while riding.

I respect anyone's passion for whatever aspect of motorcycling they want to reflect through their involvement with their motorcycles. When we look at Nick Ienatsch as an example (and by no means am I a "fan" of Nick, we certainly don't agree on everything), here's a guy who has evolved over the decades and who has put safety, training, and education out there as his highest priority in terms of his journalistic output.

He and I share a very similar background, we started racing at the same club, we rode the same roads, we worked with the same people on many occasions, sometimes concurrently. Nick is right about safe riding and I present his words, along with Keith Code's, for the consideration of the over 3,000 members of this forum who are trying to sort out how to survive 30-40 years of motorcycling.

If your bike has ABS, it's a good ride to train to break as hard as possible just before locking, no harm, if you overdo.

Yes, find a nice, clean stretch of pavement with no traffic and work on it.

Work up to it slowly.

The Ferret has reported, IIRC, he has still never gotten his bike to the state where the ABS has activated. So I'd guess it can be braked quite aggressively before it kicks in.

The key is learning to brake and turn at the same time.

In an emergency stop, we often need to slow dramatically and then release some or all braking in order to swerve. We can't swerve hard and still brake.

Many of these riding schools have drills where this is practiced but not to any great extent.

Talking about it on a forum can't pass along the skill, only practice.

Learning to do this on a heavy bike like the CB1100 is out of the question. One needs some light, small motorcycle, like a small dual-sport/ADV machine around 200cc or so, to work with. But many or most won't ever have that opportunity.

The only other option is to get as familiar with your CB1100 as you can, and adjust your riding habits to keep you as far from having to pull off a save or emergency maneuver as possible.

You can train all you want to be proficient at braking, but at the moment of truth, when panic and adrenaline kick in, are you sure you won't lock them up? The statistics are out there. Riders with ABS are 33% less likely to be in a fatal crash.

Yes you can, and I wish more riders would. One single track day with good outfit can forever transform a rider's skill set.

[kvdv_imp]

Gosh, I feel responsible for knocking this discussion off course with my original reply about ABS. I truly was just remarking that lack of ABS is one reason to like the STD vs the DLX -- and that was based on my absolute disdain for ABS. That said, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one to buck the conventional "wisdom" that ABS should in any way be considered an improvement over (or as some might argue, a substitute for) proper maximum braking technique. Back now to our scheduled programming

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Gosh, I feel responsible for knocking this discussion off course with my original reply about ABS. I truly was just remarking that lack of ABS is one reason to like the STD vs the DLX -- and that was based on my absolute disdain for ABS. That said, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one to buck the conventional "wisdom" that ABS should in any way be considered an improvement over (or as some might argue, a substitute for) proper maximum braking technique. Back now to our scheduled programming

It is completely relevant. If one bike has ABS and the other does not, than a gab about whether ABS is necessary or helpful is totally in line.

I think everyone should get it if they are the least bit in doubt of their braking skills.

Better to have it and not need it than the other way around.