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(05-29-2017, 06:39 AM)Aka Tsubasa_imp Wrote: You are way over thinking this. The bearings were already pushed by the inner races, if at all, when the wheel was installed with the spacers on the wrong sides. I honestly can not see how the bearings would have been pushed in the first place. Nothing was holding the wheel side to side. Just swap the spacers so they are correct and install the wheel per the factory manual. It will be fine.
The brake disk and caliper were holding the wheel side to side.
I think what I will do is contact the dealer service manager from the dealership who put in my wheel spacers backwards and see if he will make it right. I doubt he will since he is the one who told me to just switch my spacers and reinstall the front wheel. I will NOT! let him bang the right bearing in and possibly ruin the left bearing.
If he refuses I will get a piece of 3/4" all-thread (threaded rod) to fit thru the 20mm I.D. bearings on my 2014 CB1100 and some nuts and washers. I will remove the left spacer so I can put a washer and nut up against the hub on that side, run the all-thread thru the hub and bearings with a nut against the right spacer on the other side, and use the spacer to press the right bearing back to it's seat by tightening the nut against it while I hold the nut on the other side of the hub. This will move both bearings back to their correct locations.
Any professional mechanics out there to tell me if this is kosher? Or do I need to get a dealer to pull both bearings and reinstall per the manual? 45 X 20 X 12mm radial ball bearings are common and cheap so maybe I should just replace them.
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Aka Tsubasa's advice is good. You cannot "shift" the bearings around - they are both fully seated inward. How did you determine one of the bearings has "lifted" from its seat?
Here's the easy test. Assemble the wheel with the axle and spacers OFF the bike, no forks involved. If the wheel rotates, no mechanical problem. With the axle removed, do the bearings rotate freely? Can you move the inner spacer up/down a little when leveraged by a screwdriver, or with your finger? It could be slightly movable or snug as it has to shift so that bearings can be removed.
I suspect the problem is a mis-assembly problem. Regardless, there is unlikely any damage.
If your bike is non-ABS, you can tell if the wheel is facing the correctly by the raised cast letters on the spokes - they are on the left (port) side. The wheel appears to be symmetrical but don't assume it. Check that the tire rotation arrows are going in the correct direction too - the tech might have installed it backwards.
The distance between the two bearing seats and the length of the inner spacer are nearly identical. Both seals and bearings are the same. The left spacer is shorter than the right one, and a portion of the fat end of the axle makes acts as a spacer. When you put the axle all the way through and tightened the nut, you had to either tighten the pinch bolts on the left fork leg, or used the correct hex tool in the axle.
By tightening the left side pinch bolts, you likely pulled the fork over to the right, slightly pinching them together, and causing caliper/pad misalignment. Leave all the caliper bolts loose. With a friend's help, loosen all 4 pinch bolts, grab the brakes and pump up and down a couple times on the bars so the forks move freely and centers itself on the axle, continue to grab the brake, and have your friend tighten the pinch bolts and caliper bolts.
When having a wheel replaced, assemble the spacers on the axle and leave them all at home - no wheel balancing method needs the spacers.
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(05-30-2017, 01:46 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: Aka Tsubasa's advice is good. You cannot "shift" the bearings around - they are both fully seated inward. How did you determine one of the bearings has "lifted" from its seat?
Here's the easy test. Assemble the wheel with the axle and spacers OFF the bike, no forks involved. If the wheel rotates, no mechanical problem. With the axle removed, do the bearings rotate freely? Can you move the inner spacer up/down a little when leveraged by a screwdriver, or with your finger? It could be slightly movable or snug as it has to shift so that bearings can be removed.
I suspect the problem is a mis-assembly problem. Regardless, there is unlikely any damage.
If your bike is non-ABS, you can tell if the wheel is facing the correctly by the raised cast letters on the spokes - they are on the left (port) side. The wheel appears to be symmetrical but don't assume it. Check that the tire rotation arrows are going in the correct direction too - the tech might have installed it backwards.
The distance between the two bearing seats and the length of the inner spacer are nearly identical. Both seals and bearings are the same. The left spacer is shorter than the right one, and a portion of the fat end of the axle makes acts as a spacer. When you put the axle all the way through and tightened the nut, you had to either tighten the pinch bolts on the left fork leg, or used the correct hex tool in the axle.
By tightening the left side pinch bolts, you likely pulled the fork over to the right, slightly pinching them together, and causing caliper/pad misalignment. Leave all the caliper bolts loose. With a friend's help, loosen all 4 pinch bolts, grab the brakes and pump up and down a couple times on the bars so the forks move freely and centers itself on the axle, continue to grab the brake, and have your friend tighten the pinch bolts and caliper bolts.
When having a wheel replaced, assemble the spacers on the axle and leave them all at home - no wheel balancing method needs the spacers.
Thanks. That last statement is a lesson in wisdom I have now learned. You can shift both bearings by pressing on the left bearing according to the service manual. It says to install the right bearing until the side bottoms on the seat in the hub, then install the spacer bearing sleeve (collar?) or whatever they call it, then install the left bearing until it hits the sleeve. Apparently there is no shoulder in the hub for the left bearing so it is free to move either way in the hub.
I will get in there with a flashlight tonight to see if the right bearing is against it's seat in the hub or if there is a gap.
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Searcher,
The manual says to install the second bearing until its inner race seats against the bearing spacer, but this is still done by driving the outer race. The outer race should seat just as the inner race contacts the spacer. Driving the bearing in by the inner race will certainly damage it.
The cut-away view on 12-16 of the 2013 manual shows both outer races contact against the hub, as on all Japanese bikes. There is no way you can see any space or gap if the bearings are in place.
(The only floating bearings I've seen on a motorcycle were the front and rear disc hubs on mid-late '70s Triumphs.)
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(05-30-2017, 07:25 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: Searcher,
The manual says to install the second bearing until its inner race seats against the bearing spacer, but this is still done by driving the outer race. The outer race should seat just as the inner race contacts the spacer. Driving the bearing in by the inner race will certainly damage it.
The cut-away view on 12-16 of the 2013 manual shows both outer races contact against the hub, as on all Japanese bikes. There is no way you can see any space or gap if the bearings are in place.
(The only floating bearings I've seen on a motorcycle were the front and rear disc hubs on mid-late '70s Triumphs.)
You're right, can't see it. The only way I could tell if the bearings were seated is if I could find out how much the spacers are supposed to protrude from the hub.
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You're right, can't see it. The only way I could tell if the bearings were seated is if I could find out how much the spacers are supposed to protrude from the hub.
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Knowing how far the spacers stick out will not tell you if the bearings are seated. There is no way to have unseated the bearings unless you purposely try to, either with Honda's blind puller tool, or by forcing the inner spacer aside and using a drift put through one side to punch the inner race of the other bearing.
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Assume there is no shoulder in the hub for the left bearing, just a straight bore for the bearing O.D. Now put the wheel on with both brake calipers off and the wheel spacers switched from their correct sides and tighten the axle nut. The wheel is now shifted to the right of where it is supposed to be between the forks. Now slip the left brake caliper over the left disk. There will be a gap between the calipers and the fork since the left disk is also shifted to the right of where it's supposed to be. Now tighten up the caliper bolts until the caliper hits the fork, closing that gap (which is what I did). The only way you could do this is by pulling the wheel back towards the left until it is centered again in the forks by pulling on the left brake disk with the calipers as you tighten the caliper bolts. Since the axle and spacers are held in place in the forks the only way the wheel could move back to the center of the forks is for both bearings and the spacer sleeve between them on the axle to shift to the right in the hub. This can only occur if there is no bearing shoulder on the left side of the wheel hub.
Has anyone replaced bearings in their front wheel on a 2014 CB1100 who could tell me if the left side of the wheel hub has a straight bore for the left bearing (with no bearing shoulder in the hub bore on the left side of the wheel)?
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I have a hard time believing caliper bolts moved a hub bearing. Especially since tightening a caliper would cock the wheel. Bearings usually need an even application of force to move. Something very simple is being missed here.
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(05-30-2017, 08:04 PM)Aka Tsubasa_imp Wrote: I have a hard time believing caliper bolts moved a hub bearing. Especially since tightening a caliper would cock the wheel. Bearings usually need an even application of force to move. Something very simple is being missed here.
How can it cock the wheel when the bearings are holding it straight? Bearings in a hub usually have a light press fit. I design machines with bearings.
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(05-30-2017, 08:38 PM)Searcher_imp Wrote: (05-30-2017, 08:04 PM)Aka Tsubasa_imp Wrote: I have a hard time believing caliper bolts moved a hub bearing. Especially since tightening a caliper would cock the wheel. Bearings usually need an even application of force to move. Something very simple is being missed here.
How can it cock the wheel when the bearings are holding it straight? Bearings in a hub usually have a light press fit. I design machines with bearings.
How can it cock the wheel when the bearings are holding it straight? Bearings in a hub usually have a light press fit. I design machines with bearings.
I have offered what little input that I can and would be no further help at this point. Sorry.
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