Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?

C

ChipBeck_imp

Road warrior
Thread starter
Gentlemen,

Reading this months Cycle World magazine about the new KTM 1290 Super Adventure I am starting to feel like a real dinosaur. With a glowing review that touts it as maybe the best all around motorcycle that has ever been built, how could I not like it?? But I don't like it at all. It's styled like a two wheeled Star Wars storm trooper uniform stuffed inside a crushed set of monkey bars and incorporating every conceivable combination of odd angles and curved surfaces. It assaults the eyes from any angle. Active suspension front and rear with several different modes, accelerometer, lean angle sensors, wheelie control, ride by wire, and an engine with an electronics suite that can deliver power like a Superbike or a scooter depending upon which mode the rider selects after "toggling through all of the options".

Uh, OK. This is what sells today. And it repels me. The CB1100 has been a sales failure in America and I don't think another maker (or Honda) is going to try it again. It looks like riders like me, and bikes like the CB11, are relics. I use to be hip...what happened?

Chip
 
We're not hip.

Like the H-D Cruiser market, the market for UJMs - especially the CB750 types...is that of us old guys who remember the 1970s. Harley has found a way to be relevant by creating nostalgia and image around their wildly-obsolete crusier. Honda, a worldwide motor manufacturers with many markets and other fish to fry, has just put this out...no real sales or promotion or image cultivation.

It has to/had to stand and sell on its own merit, without any image-cultivation.

The kids, most of whom - even the ones who ride - don't KNOW the revolution the Honda Four was...couldn't care less. They either want potato-potato-potato or they want to do three-mile wheelies and be able to outrun cops.

We are dinosaurs. Harleys' market spawned a trike industry; I don't know if UBMs will be made into trikes...or if we'll all just get maxi-scooters. But it is what it is...like layered haircuts, like mod Sin-Bin vans...these bikes will disappear with us.

Life goes on.
 
I'm just speculating here, but I think there will be a market for standard motorbikes in the US. I think they will largely be styled along the lines of the current CB500f rather than retro styled like our bike, but there may be a small place for a retro-styled bike in the 400-800cc size from time to time.

I am not a motorcycle historian like Chip and Mickey (BTW, wasn't Chip & Mickey a Vaudeville act in the 20s?), but I thought that the idea of the UJM was that the Japanese attempted to design a bike that they could sell, with very minor changes, all over the world. I think they have bikes that do that now, but there are not styled like our bike and I don't think they ever will be. The aforementioned CB500 and CB300 seem to fit the requirements for a standard bike that Honda sells all over the world. I don't think you'll see a larger displacement bike fall into what I think is the UJM model because 2/3 of the world seems to require sub 1000cc motorcycles and the US market leans the other way. For now.

Then again, what the heck do I know? LOL
 
I think that most of the motorcycle producers will be trying different looks and displacement over time to appeal to the ever changing market. As we know the development of motorcycle styling is connected to the age group that is buying them. It is very difficult to predict what will appeal to buyers at different times in the market. As an older rider I do not necessarily like them but it is a changing market. I think Honda tried to appeal to the older riders with the CB1100 and that is why I bought one. Not all styles will be a success. I also owned a ST1300 that did not enjoy a lot of success but it appealed to me personally. At least that is my opinion and as we know everybody has one.










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Honestly unless someone owned it's predecessor, nobody really like's air cooled engine's now a days. They don't offer the power, or torque of a liquid cooled engine. And apparently even according to most reviews the CB1100's stacked up against, horsepower is everything. And the top horsepower bike always win. I think the biggest problem is the reviews claim it's a beginners bike, and complain about the horsepower not being exciting. Oh well, poor sales figures or not.. I love this bike. You can have your Yamaha YZF-R1M with gut wrenching power, and 0-60 faster than you can imagine for all I care. I won't be selling my CB1100, ever. It's perfect in every aspect, down to the last bolt.
 
I just find it easier to sit on my porch and yell at kids to get off my lawn. The biggest problem is that the baby boomers are just now discovering the same gap that they had with their depression era parents.

The model A and T roadsters aren't as collectable as they once were. Muscle cars will soon fade away while fast and furious style Japanese cars will increase in popularity. Same goes with motorcycles. I love my CB, best bike I have owned in decades. But it doesn't meet the requirements of new era bikes. To remain successful motorcycle companies are going to stay within the market desires. Honda is doing that. Yet somehow they are willing to toss a bone in our direction, for that I am thankful.

Embrace what we have, and accept the inevitable. I am into ham radio and enjoy tube radios. I know and accept the reality that tube radios are a thing of the past. Many in that hobby refuse too. Let's not be those guys.
 
Funny, 40 years ago if the press had tested a bike with power similar to CB, they would been agog, raving about it's stunning power and how it is a bike for experts only. Perspective is everything, never mind that the average rider is not skilled enough to take advantage of the CB's "power" level.
 
I am a dinosaur yes, a velociraptor!

It's unlikely the UJM "as we know it" will make much more of a presence in motorcycle inventories,(it's possible Suz, Kaw and Yam will bring big air cooled 4's in, they have them, just have to wait and see) but UJMs/Standards have actually had a pretty good run the last 14 years spurred on IMO when John Bloor brought back the Bonneville.(hard to believe it's been 14 years already) . Triumph (bonnevilles and scramblers), Moto Guzzi (several V7models plus the new California), Royal Enfield (several models), Kawasaki (W650 and 800), Ducati (GT 1000 and Scrambler) of course Harley Davidson (XL883), Yamaha (SR 400) and BMW (R1200R Classic and R9T) have all been making air cooled motors with basically upright ergos and bench type seats for years now... but....

Just as hair styles, clothes, music and movie genres change, so do motorcycles. Tomorrows UJM's are todays ADV's and their ilk. Powerful, comfortable, canyon carving, sport touring, touring, commuting do pretty much anything pretty well machines. They will never be simple again. The new customer base is demanding more and more electronics and just like my Honda pick-up is closer to a Cadillac CTS in amenities than it was to my old Chev C-10, even though one is fancier, and infinitely more complicated, in the end they are both pick-ups.

Chip, I think both of our son's drive Ducati Monsters with Termioni's. In 30 years, when they look back, those will be their classics. Heck in 30 years anything with an ICE may be considered a classic lol
 
I think it's possible there won't be many retro 70s models in the future, except H-D of course. I think that market has been tapped and wasn't widely successful. I'm just glad I could finally afford the bike of my dreams when the CB11 came out.

Soon, any "retro" models will probably steal more from the 80s and 90s in the upcoming years. Motorcycle buyers are so fickle. I have no idea how manufacturers decide what to make and what not to. Everyone is very eager to say what they want (PS: I want a round headlight naked 300-500cc or a straight from factory Supermoto that I can fit on) but to actually get people to put their hard earned money down is a whole 'nother thing. It's not like cars which most people have to have anyway...

I'm glad Honda took a calculated chance on the cb11 and it seemed to be a love affair by the designers which I appreciate. But really, Honda is a company that I think will continue to focus on well made, not too expensive, worldwide models.
 
xNE0x_imp said:
Honestly unless someone owned it's predecessor, nobody really like's air cooled engine's now a days. They don't offer the power, or torque of a liquid cooled engine. And apparently even according to most reviews the CB1100's stacked up against, horsepower is everything. And the top horsepower bike always win. I think the biggest problem is the reviews claim it's a beginners bike, and complain about the horsepower not being exciting. Oh well, poor sales figures or not.. I love this bike. You can have your Yamaha YZF-R1M with gut wrenching power, and 0-60 faster than you can imagine for all I care. I won't be selling my CB1100, ever. It's perfect in every aspect, down to the last bolt.
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I see it both ways. Air cooling is noisier; more prone to overheating; less powerful than a similar water-cooled unit. It's also simpler - and the winter routine doesn't involve testing and changing antifreeze when laying it up. Plus, no water pump and hoses to fail and decompose.

Water cooling IS the future, and it has nothing to do with our tastes. Emissions laws; it's much easier to meet emissions standards when the engine operating temperature is rigidly controlled. That means water cooling.

So, this is probably the last big air-cooled engine we'll see. Savor it...I know I am.
 
I guess I'm an enigma; at 57, I started out converting used Japanese versions of Brit twins into cafe racers back in the '70s, and drooled over the look and sound of the inline 4 CB750, which was unfortunately beyond my budget. That morphed into 3 decades of sportbikes, when a decent income started after college in the early '80s, and I no longer had to buy used compromises of what I really wanted. Now, I find that my aging body doesn't want to fold up onto the committed position they require, and I get a lot more satisfaction and fun out of riding upright on my CB11 or lightly-cafe'd Triumph Bonneville. And I have to add here that I honestly feel that my CB is the most beautiful bike I've ever owned.
However, my heart still beats faster at the sight of a Ducati superbike. Or the KTM RC8, or...well, the sportbike list goes on and on. I still love their looks, whether trellis-framed, or aluminum perimeter-framed, you name it. Yet I fully understand that beauty is obviously subjective, as it is with any style of bike, car, art, etc. I'm just glad that there are so many bikes, in so many far-flung styles available now for every taste and niche, that nearly anybody can find a design and size that is well-suited to their situation, budget and needs.
But obviously, that doesn't change the fact that I was weened on UJMs, and still love and appreciate that style, which I've quite happily found again in the guise of the CB.
 
I'm not really as negative as some, even though I do not like the current trend in motorcycle design. I could accept the new technology with all the electronics and ride by wire, but I don't like the looks of current bikes in general. A good friend of mine has a motorcycle shop in the area, and I had bought my previous Moto Morini from him. However, a few years ago he took up a Kawasaki and Aprilia dealership, and he has been very successful since. Unfortunately it also means I am not in the market to buy any bikes from him.

The other day I went to see him and to buy a new helmet. We stood around and talked about bikes for a while, and he admired my CB. Last year I had been to see him about getting a W800, but in the end I preferred the CB. He told me that there are rumours that Kawasaki might bring back the Zephyr! Although he sells a lot of bikes as it is, he also has a lot of demand for something like that, which is why he understands my choice.

Trends change, and I can't really think of any mainstream or really popular bikes that have appealed to me over the past 10 or 15 years. However, there have always been enough more original bikes available through these years, and I think there will be in the future as well. Perhaps not another CB11, but certainly a valid alternative.

But I am not selling the CB anytime soon!
 
I like having something that isn't so popular.

I guess I've always been kind of "counter-culture" (thus the handle). I have no need to get a 180mph crotch rocket. I'm not suicidal. Cruisers are cool, and I have one of those, too, but standards and cafes have always been my favorite.
 
Henrik_imp said:
I'm not really as negative as some, even though I do not like the current trend in motorcycle design. I could accept the new technology with all the electronics and ride by wire, but I don't like the looks of current bikes in general. A good friend of mine has a motorcycle shop in the area, and I had bought my previous Moto Morini from him. However, a few years ago he took up a Kawasaki and Aprilia dealership, and he has been very successful since. Unfortunately it also means I am not in the market to buy any bikes from him.

The other day I went to see him and to buy a new helmet. We stood around and talked about bikes for a while, and he admired my CB. Last year I had been to see him about getting a W800, but in the end I preferred the CB. He told me that there are rumours that Kawasaki might bring back the Zephyr! Although he sells a lot of bikes as it is, he also has a lot of demand for something like that, which is why he understands my choice.

Trends change, and I can't really think of any mainstream or really popular bikes that have appealed to me over the past 10 or 15 years. However, there have always been enough more original bikes available through these years, and I think there will be in the future as well. Perhaps not another CB11, but certainly a valid alternative.

But I am not selling the CB anytime soon!
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That would be interesting. The 90s Zephyr models were virtually carbon copies of the old KZ bikes (Z bikes for you guys across the pond). They would probably have to come up with new engines, as I think the old air cooled, 8 valve powerplants would no longer pass emissions requirements.

Sadly, even if they brought them back I doubt we'd see them in the States. Last time around, the Zephyr series was very successful, everywhere but here.

I'd buy one.
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Having lunch with a co-worker that is in his late 40's; the CB standard styling does not suit him at all. He prefers the sport bike styling (rides a 600cc GXR).

I'm afraid we are victims of our age. We love what we grew up on and it wasn't Transformers.

But that is the way things go, be it clothes (well, if it follows clothes then we have hope that the classic standard will come back in style!!), music etc.

Thankfully, Honda built the CB, Kawasaki built the W650/800 etc. and we can buy the bikes WE appreciate and let the snot nosed hooligans have their transformers. Be nice to them, they will be running the nursing home.
 
The bike seems to only appeal to those who already owned or liked the CB750 from back in the day. I don't think it's the be all end all bike, but it is a very very well done retro bike.

I personally don't think standards or UJM's will go away, I just think their appeal is in a slump right now. This may be a great time for someone to get some collector's items. I plan to buy at least another 2013 but will wait until the price drops a little more. :D
 
In 2007, the KTM SuperDuke won bike of the year. I bought one. It was a good bike, but had some flaws. The styling did not appeal to many people, the seat was rock hard. Exciting to ride short distance, nice power, good tranny, outstanding handler. Excellent WP suspension, but very stiff. They didn't sell worth a darn after the first 6 months or so and were eventually discontinued. Had trouble selling mine a couple years later. The new Superduke is a very narrow niche bike - even more narrow than the 2007 model. It is a very narrow focus motorcycle - built for magazine road testers who don't have to buy it and live with it.

I have owned a lot of bikes, including a 2013 CB1100. It is a good, well-engineered bike. I like it and ride it often, but it is not very exciting like my Ducatis, Speed Triples, Tuonos and SuperDuke were.

My suggestions - modify the CB1100 to fit somewhere in the middle of the performance of the current CB1100 and the models I mention. Remove the ECU restrictions, retune for 100 plus horsepower, 17 inch wheels. Make it a bit more exciting like the original CB750 was in its day.

Look how long the ZRX1100/1200 lasted - similar to the CB1100 but with a lot more power.

I think naked bikes will survive, especially after the adventure bike craze dies.
 
No worries. It's fun to see all the variety, even if motorcycle trends are an enigma. Here in the U.S., they are largely toys. Garage queens: mostly cruisers and Hypersports that see very few miles. Craigslist is full of 5-10 year-old bikes with way less than 5,000 miles on the clock.

Standards will come back, if somebody does it right. Example: Where does the Ducati Scrambler fit in all this? Not a UJM, but they are working to build a brand around a basic platform and seem to be marketing it as some sort of "hipster chic." They also offer four model options in various colors. If they get the word out, it might be something people actually buy.

For us, Honda built a great bike we on this forum had been waiting for. For everyone else, they did nothing at all to market or sell it. No color options, no mass market advertising, no real accessory choices, nada. Could have been a great platform that could have been cafe'd, tour packaged, whatever.

But someday, years from now, some guy or gal - a newbie rider or a sportbike refugee - will stumble on a low mile, used CB1100 and say, "Hey, what's this?" And they'll make a discovery that will rock their world.

Cheers!
 
You have all raised great points and I am finding it more difficult to find new bikes that have the styling that I like as well. Is it just me or do the newer generation bikes have really cramped cock pits? I loved my Ducati Sport Classic even with the plastic tank flaw. It had that low end twin snort and it handled very well. I would love to have one of the new KTM adventure bikes or the FJ-09 as well, but with my kids entering college, I felt the CB was a stylish bike that I could both tour with and enjoy every day. The KTM and the FJ for me are both rank high on the fun factor but low in the looks department.
 
If you try to mod the CB1100 to be more like todays bike then you get off the message and focus of wha the CB is intended to be. And then it's compared to modern bikes and found wanting. It is what it is.
 
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