Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?

[the Ferret]

I have ridden Harley Dynas and multiple BMWs. Spent 2 weeks on an R1200R in Europe .

I was really impressed with the Dyna Convertible I rode in 1995 (as a matter of fact my wife and I couldn't believe it was a Harley judging by the 5 or 6 I had owned prior to that) and if I hadn't just bought another Harley not months before I would have bought the Dyna. I do remember awful shaking while sitting stopped, but at freeway speed, it was as smooth as most other touring bikes (whereas my previuos Harley just shook constantly slow or fast lol). I also really enjoyed the R1200R too and don't remember any vibrations per se to speak of. Just a side to side shudder when idling and accelerating like on a Moto Guzzi. I could own a Beemer R1200R but only if I got it firesale (like under $5K), because there are other things I don't like about Beemers. They just don't suit me. Not sure what it is because I absolutely love looking at them. I have tried buying a Beemer at least 3 times in the past (R90S, R90/7, R1150R Rockster) and each time a test ride ruined the dream for me. Just don't care to ride them. I have found they certainly don't like to be ridden in too high of a gear. Maybe because I'm a rider who stays in the bottom half of the rpms available and will run 5th gear down to 30 mph and let the torque pull it out back up to cruising speed. The Beemer was kind of like riding a two stroke in that regards. If you slowed down at all you'd better be downshifting, otherwise the riding experience wasn't going to be pleasant.

Anyhow we all have our own perceptions, preferences and experiences. I'm just ALWAYS happier when riding an inline 4 or V4 for some reason.



.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

Chip, I guess our experiences and preferences are different, not right or wrong, just different experiences. I owned a H-D Dyna and it was a shaker. Every BMW I've owned did not shake. I was very pleased with the boxer twins I owned, none of them even gave me so much as a seat or handlebar vibration. Only boxer that I can recall that was less than silky smooth was a police RT that had over 60K of police use on it. The BMW police bikes beat Harley in most categories tested, if not all categories. Check the Michigan State Police tests which is the industry benchmark for testing police cars and motorcycles.

Not to disagree with what you post here...but keep in mind that just as with cars, what police units look for is not what the end-use individual buyer looks for.

Police are concerned with performance and reliability. Comfort only enters into it when it means whether a patrolman can stand to use the bike for a full shift, day after day.

Power and torque count. Velvety smoothness and pleasure in use, not so important.

I know nothing of Harleys - except to watch them not idle well at stoplights. But the much-vaunted smoothness of the BMW boxer, in its current outsized form...is vastly overrated.

Disagreement is OK, we all have different likes, impressions, etc. I'm curious as to "outsized". Are you referring to the size and weight of the RT? The engine won't get any larger due to the fact that to do so will make the heads longer and also lower, then they will be in danger of scraping the ground.

 

[Wisedrum]

I have ridden Harley Dynas and multiple BMWs. Spent 2 weeks on an R1200R in Europe .

I was really impressed with the Dyna Convertible I rode in 1995 (as a matter of fact my wife and I couldn't believe it was a Harley judging by the 5 or 6 I had owned prior to that) and if I hadn't just bought another Harley not months before I would have bought the Dyna. I do remember awful shaking while sitting stopped, but at freeway speed, it was as smooth as most other touring bikes (whereas my previuos Harley just shook constantly slow or fast lol). I also really enjoyed the R1200R too and don't remember any vibrations per se to speak of. Just a side to side shudder when idling and accelerating like on a Moto Guzzi. I could own a Beemer R1200R but only if I got it firesale (like under $5K), because there are other things I don't like about Beemers. They just don't suit me. Not sure what it is because I absolutely love looking at them. I have tried buying a Beemer at least 3 times in the past (R90S, R90/7, R1150R Rockster) and each time a test ride ruined the dream for me. Just don't care to ride them. I have found they certainly don't like to be ridden in too high of a gear. Maybe because I'm a rider who stays in the bottom half of the rpms available and will run 5th gear down to 30 mph and let the torque pull it out back up to cruising speed. The Beemer was kind of like riding a two stroke in that regards. If you slowed down at all you'd better be downshifting, otherwise the riding experience wasn't going to be pleasant.

Anyhow we all have our own perceptions, preferences and experiences. I'm just ALWAYS happier when riding an inline 4 or V4 for some reason.



.

For the torque deal the CB and the W are really good partners.
I also stick to this kind of moving my bikes.
But I don't torture them and be aware of mechanical laws.

Wisedrum

 

[rboe]

They don't make Studebakers, Hudsons, Cords, Duesenbergs, Model T's or Model A's anymore. Nor do they make Hendersons, Crockers, Sunbeams etc. anymore either. I suspect the CB1100 is the swan song of the air cooled inline 4 in the US and Europe. Like all the other names I mentioned that had their time in the sun, life moved on and the world passed them by. Sometimes unfairly, sometimes sadly by usually earned. In a couple generations new riders will not give a hoot about these old bikes. Given another generation or two and some of these bikes will be worth their weight it gold.

Just not sure which bikes will be so desirable. sigh......

 

[JustJohn_imp]

Hmmm. Well, I'm in a college town...and mostly I'm ignored. There are a few bikers out and about...in cages or carts (pickups)...I can spot them because they give me a covert eye.

But in a town with mostly young people (who know little of old motorcycles) I don't think too many are impressed. It's not a Transformers ride...it's just one of those boring old bikes like the ones Dad rode. A boring old fart on it, like Dad.

Occasionally a Harley guy (sometimes with club colors, which may or may not be legit - seems we've become a pass-through point for some MC runs) will try stop-light dragging on the main, five-lane road. It's kinda fun...he sizing me, with my ATGATT green and grey-reflective...cruiserface scowl...light changes and he lets me hear the power of those open pipes. So I run it up, easy, to 2nd...and OPEN IT UP. I can hit 55 in seemingly the blink of an eye...5700 rpms. He's in the dust...scowl intact...you can almost hear him, "I intended that."

Other'n that...really, not much interest. In a world where college kids have BMWs, it takes a lot to wow the passers-by.

Very telling. Why would you care who gives a darn about what you are riding? Or who eyeballs the bike? Or their age bracket? Who are you trying to "Wow"? Just asking.

 

[Teamwalker_imp]

As said before, I love this thread! I will keep this short. Whether it is generational, age, whatever, I love the CB11! Bought a 14 deluxe in Feb. and just put a deposit on a 14 Standard 2 days ago. Nearing 60 yo this is a bike I love and I fear it will end with the 14 model. Dealers are dealing and I voted with my wallet. So far, no regrets, and I have never, never done anything like this in my life before. But, I really believe in this bike and I committed for 2 new ones before they disappear.

Very thankful that I am at a place in life where I can do this, and like my future aspects. To me, this bike is what a motorcycle is all about and I am confident I will not regret the money I have spent. I want a m/c to look like a m/c and not a "transformer".

I will not argue religion, politics, or women with anyone because it is what you believe/like. We all have personal tastes. But, this m/c does it for me and I am prepared to ride this until the end.

Long live the CB1100!

 

[the Ferret]

Well said

Hail hail the CB 1100. :worship:

And congrats on buying 2 of these beauties!

 

[ischliky_imp]

I really feel like the odd ball in this crowd all the sudden. In my early 30s and never grew up on any of the 70's or 80's hondas. I really liked the styling of this bike as well, but if I had to be honest, I wanted a modern bike that didnt look like complete crap. I have no idea why almost all bikes today look so terrible, i for the life of me can not figure out how it is attractive to people. And i swear to god if someone tells me they really love the look of something like the NM4, I will have to ignore about everything else they ever say about styling.

 

[flynrider]

As said before, I love this thread! I will keep this short. Whether it is generational, age, whatever, I love the CB11! Bought a 14 deluxe in Feb. and just put a deposit on a 14 Standard 2 days ago. Nearing 60 yo this is a bike I love and I fear it will end with the 14 model. Dealers are dealing and I voted with my wallet. So far, no regrets, and I have never, never done anything like this in my life before. But, I really believe in this bike and I committed for 2 new ones before they disappear.

Very thankful that I am at a place in life where I can do this, and like my future aspects. To me, this bike is what a motorcycle is all about and I am confident I will not regret the money I have spent. I want a m/c to look like a m/c and not a "transformer".

I will not argue religion, politics, or women with anyone because it is what you believe/like. We all have personal tastes. But, this m/c does it for me and I am prepared to ride this until the end.

Long live the CB1100!

Good for you, TW! I feel much the same about these bikes. I bought mine with the expectation that it would be the last bike I'd ever buy. I toyed with the idea of getting a '14 to go with my '13, but that would have meant parting with my other retro UJM, the CB750. Just couldn't do it.

 

[rboe]

I thought about it too. But I like a bit of diversity in my bike kit.

 

[Siggy Javotnik_imp]

Gentlemen,

Reading this months Cycle World magazine about the new KTM 1290 Super Adventure I am starting to feel like a real dinosaur. With a glowing review that touts it as maybe the best all around motorcycle that has ever been built, how could I not like it?? But I don't like it at all. It's styled like a two wheeled Star Wars storm trooper uniform stuffed inside a crushed set of monkey bars and incorporating every conceivable combination of odd angles and curved surfaces. It assaults the eyes from any angle. Active suspension front and rear with several different modes, accelerometer, lean angle sensors, wheelie control, ride by wire, and an engine with an electronics suite that can deliver power like a Superbike or a scooter depending upon which mode the rider selects after "toggling through all of the options".

Uh, OK. This is what sells today. And it repels me. The CB1100 has been a sales failure in America and I don't think another maker (or Honda) is going to try it again. It looks like riders like me, and bikes like the CB11, are relics. I use to be hip...what happened?

Chip

GRANDPA SIMPSON: I used to be "with it," but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm "with" isn't "it" and what's "it" seems weird and scary...

 

[DJS_imp]

Gentlemen,

Reading this months Cycle World magazine about the new KTM 1290 Super Adventure I am starting to feel like a real dinosaur. With a glowing review that touts it as maybe the best all around motorcycle that has ever been built, how could I not like it?? But I don't like it at all. It's styled like a two wheeled Star Wars storm trooper uniform stuffed inside a crushed set of monkey bars and incorporating every conceivable combination of odd angles and curved surfaces. It assaults the eyes from any angle. Active suspension front and rear with several different modes, accelerometer, lean angle sensors, wheelie control, ride by wire, and an engine with an electronics suite that can deliver power like a Superbike or a scooter depending upon which mode the rider selects after "toggling through all of the options".

Uh, OK. This is what sells today. And it repels me. The CB1100 has been a sales failure in America and I don't think another maker (or Honda) is going to try it again. It looks like riders like me, and bikes like the CB11, are relics. I use to be hip...what happened?

Chip

GRANDPA SIMPSON: I used to be "with it," but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm "with" isn't "it" and what's "it" seems weird and scary...

GRANDPA SIMPSON: I used to be "with it," but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm "with" isn't "it" and what's "it" seems weird and scary...

 

[jwoods986_imp]

The bike seems to only appeal to those who already owned or liked the CB750 from back in the day. I don't think it's the be all end all bike, but it is a very very well done retro bike.

I personally don't think standards or UJM's will go away, I just think their appeal is in a slump right now. This may be a great time for someone to get some collector's items. I plan to buy at least another 2013 but will wait until the price drops a little more.

Is this low enough for you? http://frederick.craigslist.org/mcd/4985088550.html

 

[thessler3_imp]

I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them. The manufacturers build what sells, even if they sometimes make models that do not sell very well, they keep trying.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them. The manufacturers build what sells, even if they sometimes make models that do not sell very well, they keep trying.

Its not the power differential the manufacturers are concerned with, its the year by year ever toughening worldwide emissions rules that is the driving force moving everyone to water cooling.

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them. The manufacturers build what sells, even if they sometimes make models that do not sell very well, they keep trying.

Gentlemen,

Perhaps 70 years ago as regards aircraft engines that are operated at fairly constant power levels and can rely upon a steady 250 MPH flow of cooling air that is true. But that formula doesn't apply to motorcycles today. Modern motorcycle engines capable of passing EPA emissions can probably produce 100% more power if they are water cooled. Air cooled engines must be in a mild state of tune to pass emissions today. This is why the CB11 is not a 750. Even at 1130cc it still produces only 87 horsepower. The new Yamaha R-1 has a smaller water cooled engine that puts out 200 horsepower. That's a tad more than 3%. Because the CB11 had air cooling as a design feature and knowing it needed to be a solid performer despite the required mild state of tune, displacement was bumped way up to 1130cc.

As far as air cooled bikes continuing to be produced I agree with you there but I think they will be small displacement, low power bikes like the Honda Grom and other lightweights. Even small displacement dirt bikes are water cooled today.

Harley Davidson will hang on to it in mildly tuned big twins as long as they can but I don't see another 4 cylinder big bore air cooled street bike after our CB's. I hope I'm wrong.

Chip

 

[rboe]

The R1 produces more power for many reasons that have little to do with liquid cooling. What they do produces so much waste heat they must liquid cool it so it won't melt.

It's also designed for a different market and mission. Like comparing a taxi to an F1 race car.

But I agree, big inline fours are on the way out with air cooling.

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Hmmm. Well, I'm in a college town...and mostly I'm ignored. There are a few bikers out and about...in cages or carts (pickups)...I can spot them because they give me a covert eye.

But in a town with mostly young people (who know little of old motorcycles) I don't think too many are impressed. It's not a Transformers ride...it's just one of those boring old bikes like the ones Dad rode. A boring old fart on it, like Dad.

Occasionally a Harley guy (sometimes with club colors, which may or may not be legit - seems we've become a pass-through point for some MC runs) will try stop-light dragging on the main, five-lane road. It's kinda fun...he sizing me, with my ATGATT green and grey-reflective...cruiserface scowl...light changes and he lets me hear the power of those open pipes. So I run it up, easy, to 2nd...and OPEN IT UP. I can hit 55 in seemingly the blink of an eye...5700 rpms. He's in the dust...scowl intact...you can almost hear him, "I intended that."

Other'n that...really, not much interest. In a world where college kids have BMWs, it takes a lot to wow the passers-by.

Very telling. Why would you care who gives a darn about what you are riding? Or who eyeballs the bike? Or their age bracket? Who are you trying to "Wow"? Just asking.

Not at all. I'm just an observer of human foibiles.

If I cared what people think, I'd have bought a poser bike.

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

The R1 produces more power for many reasons that have little to do with liquid cooling. What they do produces so much waste heat they must liquid cool it so it won't melt.

It's also designed for a different market and mission. Like comparing a taxi to an F1 race car.

But I agree, big inline fours are on the way out with air cooling.

Rboe,

Exactly. I was not saying that liquid cooling produces twice the power. Liquid cooling produces no power and the water pump actually uses some. What I was saying is that power generation creates heat. Double the power and you more than double heat generation. A taxi cab and a race car are the same in this regard. They both must have sufficient cooling capacity to deal with the heat generated by whatever power level they produce.

The water cooled system in that R-1 is capable of keeping temperatures in check in an engine capable of generating 200 hp. What I'm saying is that the same exact engine that was air-cooled and detuned by 3% would not even come close to being able to keep temps in check. The motor would quickly self destruct. Meeting today's lean burn, catalyst equipped, emissions I think maybe 100 hp would be the limit for an air cooled 1000cc street bike. 120 hp tops but the heads and cylinder cooling fins would have to be massive and heavy.

Water cooling allows much higher power levels than air cooling. And we're not talking 3%, I'd say closer to 100%. Cheers.

Chip

 

[rboe]

Oil cooling will get you some relief. My Griso is oil/air cooled (about 92hp at the rear wheel) and has some good sized oil journals for the head.

I suspect that materials scientists could come up with a long lasting air cooled high output motor (now could we afford it is another matter!) if the market demanded that. Remember when the EPA first started setting standards back in the 70's and they had pollution pumps and all sorts of ugly stuff attached to engine and performance went into the basement? That lasted what; ten years or so? Then with EFI and computers the plumbing became much simpler, engines became a lot more efficient (and now you have to been a computer expert as well as a wrench to work on the car) and power came back. Along with pony cars. And performance.

Granted they are water cooled but save for the Corsair and VW most were water cooled before.

So in that light; perhaps air cooled is not off the list yet.