Why the CB1100 didn't take off...

[DBM_imp]

Quote:As I’ve mentioned before on the forum, I have seen enough CB1100’s around here (primarily 2013 models) that I’ve lost count. (It’s not like there are all that many, but I can no longer keep count with just two hands.)
I've owned my new 11 now for almost 2 years without ever seeing another one anywhere. Kinda dig it. Almost like I am riding a special bike that is reserved for only a deserving few.

 

[furious_blue_imp]

As so many others have said here at various times.
Mr CB was never intended to be a seller.
Like the Fury, like the NM4, it's a niche bike.
I'm sure glad that Honda decided to fill the niche because it's such a gem.
I remember when the concept bike showed up in the mid-2000s or so, I thought at that time that if they every decide to actually make that thing, I'm getting one somehow !

 

[furious_blue_imp]

they certainly intended to sell more new than they did , hence why there were all the holdovers 3,4,5 years later. Its just the way it is.

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..

 

[Bheezy27403_imp]

they certainly intended to sell more new than they did , hence why there were all the holdovers 3,4,5 years later. Its just the way it is.

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..
"Retro" has been a thing since the 2001 Bonneville came out.

 

[Guth_imp]

they certainly intended to sell more new than they did , hence why there were all the holdovers 3,4,5 years later. Its just the way it is.

This comment makes me curious. I don't have the time to research this at the moment but it appears that here are fewer than 1,000 Honda Powersports dealers in the USA. Many here on the forum have reported over the years that not every dealer even received CB1100's to begin with. So there are maybe somewhere in the range of 500 - 750 dealers are involved as far as this discussion goes (?no idea here?). What percentage of those do you think had leftovers and what kind of quantities?

 

[pekingduck]

If American Honda, or any distributor, had a crystal ball to guess what and how many will sell, they were wasting their time not trading stocks on Wall Street.

 

[furious_blue_imp]

they certainly intended to sell more new than they did , hence why there were all the holdovers 3,4,5 years later. Its just the way it is.

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..
"Retro" has been a thing since the 2001 Bonneville came out.

You've got a point there.
I wonder if they would have sold better or worse if they'd attempted to shape and paint the tanks like the original 69-70's 750s, the way that Kawasaki has put on a rounded tank and painted the last 2 years of the Z900RS to resemble the earlier Z1s. Of course 'retro' wasn't as much of thing back when the CB1100 first came out..
"Retro" has been a thing since the 2001 Bonneville came out.
The Bonneville certainly came along way back when, but it was not riding a wave of retro like there has been in the last few years. If the CB were new now, I'd speculate that Honda might've taken a chance to make it resemble 70's CB750 as the current Z900RS tries to resemble a Z1 and the current Suzuki Katana 'tries' to resemble the old Guth design Katana.. We'll never know..

 

[pdedse]

they certainly intended to sell more new than they did , hence why there were all the holdovers 3,4,5 years later. Its just the way it is.

This comment makes me curious. I don't have the time to research this at the moment but it appears that here are fewer than 1,000 Honda Powersports dealers in the USA. Many here on the forum have reported over the years that not every dealer even received CB1100's to begin with. So there are maybe somewhere in the range of 500 - 750 dealers are involved as far as this discussion goes (?no idea here?). What percentage of those do you think had leftovers and what kind of quantities?

IDK either, but my dealings were mainly with the Honda place in Beaverton, OR. They had a '14 standard on sale towards the end of '15. I test rode it. Then while deciding, it sold. Thought I missed my chance. Then another one showed up. I bought it, Jan of '16. Two months later, another one was on the floor. Some time later...it sold. Then another one showed up (this prolly end of '16). Two other local Honda dealerships also seemed to always have one on the floor the 3-4 times I went to those places. Same bike each time? IDK. When I went to buy my '17ex in Feb. of 18 there were still 2 new '14 standards in my area. Can't remember when I saw the last one go,but I think it was still there in mid '18. Then...finally, they were no more.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think the blacked out bikes were gaining in popularity sometime around 2010, and Honda banked on the idea that the '14 standard would sell well as a result. Then things just didn't quite click, and the fish didn't bite like Honda thought they would.

All speculation, but that's the feel that I got talking with salesmen, by observing how long they would stay on the floor, and from looking at dealerships really from around the country trying to determine how low a dealer might go.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Katana = Hans Muth, not Guth

 

[Guth_imp]

beats me but there was a buttload of 2014's for sale 2 years ago everywhere. thats how i got mine, they were all over the place.

Except for where they weren’t. So maybe 100 units or less in total nationwide.

Katana = Hans Muth, not Guth

It’s okay, it doesn’t happen as much these days, but I used to get that a lot in the past. People would yell at me and call me names like the “two-tone seat freak”. Sometimes they would throw their stale donuts at me. I thought those days were long gone but now I’m not so sure anymore.

 

[max]

So if i quietly think that if more red honda's were imported would they have sold at a better rate? that puts things in an interesting light.
Personally i like the cb1300 in white with the simple white/red tank but not so much the current scheme with the multiple colors, hmmmm.

 

[Guth_imp]

OK, we'll average them out and say 250.

So if i quietly think that if more red honda's were imported would they have sold at a better rate? that puts things in an interesting light.
Personally i like the cb1300 in white with the simple white/red tank but not so much the current scheme with the multiple colors, hmmmm.

I'm not sure that it's possible to say. Guessing based on my own personal experiences is not too credible as far as actual nationwide statistics are concerned. Around here where I am located I have seen far more red 2013 standards that black 2014 standards. A ratio of 5 red to every 1 black CB1100 is probably pretty close. But I am talking a sample size of less than 20 sightings in total. You could spin that a few different ways

1.) The red CB1100's were more popular than the black CB1100's
2.) The 2013 CB1100's were more popular than the 2014 CB1100's
3.) The majority of people who really wanted a CB1100 bought one when they were first released, therefore consuming more of the red CB1100's in the first year offered than any of the other variations.
4.) When dealers stopped putting out free day-old donuts in 2014 it really had an impact on all Honda motorcycle sales including the CB1100.

Alright, so I just threw that last one in to fill things out a bit more and add a little more weight to the discussion.

It is a shame that when we were lucky enough to receive a new model here in this country we typically weren't provided all of the colors being produced for markets in other parts of the world. Had both the red and black CB1100's been available for purchase at the same time here in this country from the beginning then you would have the answer to your question. Since that wasn't the case I don't think that you'll ever come up with an answer to your question.

 

[Guth_imp]

Hmm, yes. But when prompted for details, your response was "buttload". So was there, or was there not, a "Sales Manager" actually involved? Nudge, Nudge, ,

Just saying I did the best I could with what I was given to work with.
By the way, actual verified information is both appreciated and nice to have. I almost pulled half of the forum's research division off of their other assigned projects in order to place them directly on the project to be known as the AZ50K1 Buttload Conundrum.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Buttload Conundrum. :rofl:

 

[Cormanus]

Let's look at the limited data available to the Forum's Research Division. It's not all that good as it relies on self reporting by members of the forum. So, while it's hard for members to conceive of any halfway intelligent CB1100 rider not belonging to the forum, we have to acknowledge the possibility that they don't and that some of the data at least may be deficient.

Checking out the forum stats here just for the US, we can see that, in 2013, 252 CB1100s were sold. That includes both ABS and non ABS models. In 2014 the number fell to a total of 192 (119 standards and 73 DLXs).

Nobody can be quite sure what that tells us, but it won't stop speculation about whether black or red goes faster.

Add the result of earlier disputation about what constitutes marketing. The result? Although there was a deal of reporting of the CB1100 by the motorcycle media—much of which said it was wonderful albeit just a little bland and not nearly fast enough for the knee draggers—Honda made no effort at all to advertise the thing. One could be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that Honda dropped a couple of container loads of them in the US and waited to see what would happen.

It remains the case that, while members contributing to the various discussions of this question have strongly held opinions, none of us will ever know whether Honda is pleased or disappointed or indifferent to the sales performance of the CB1100 in the US. Or anywhere else for that matter.

Meanwhile I can report that the Forum's Storage Division is being loaded with lots and lots more 1s and 0s.

 

[baxtercat_imp]

counting motorcycles on the road, or reporting the reactions of one's friends to the price tag is not very scientific. but since speculating is fun, imagine:

Honda drops its containers of 2013s and they sell ok. But someone at headquarters has a bad night, and the next day arbitrarily decides North America will not get the black 2014, only 100 red DLXs. Those ship and sell out pretty quickly, at a higher MSRP. No more CB 1100s come to the US after that.

If this happened, would we ever see a video or a thread called "why the CB1100 didn't take off?" Would we ever try to parse issues of "is it worth the price" or poor marketing or its weakness compared to other choices on the market? I don't think so. The CB would be by now one of those cult bikes in the US, and those who didn't get one at the time would be envying those who had the foresight to snap one up early at full price.

The variable here is black 2014s.

 

[pdedse]

counting motorcycles on the road, or reporting the reactions of one's friends to the price tag is not very scientific. but since speculating is fun, imagine:

Honda drops its containers of 2013s and they sell ok. But someone at headquarters has a bad night, and the next day arbitrarily decides North America will not get the black 2014, only 100 red DLXs. Those ship and sell out pretty quickly, at a higher MSRP. No more CB 1100s come to the US after that.

If this happened, would we ever see a video or a thread called "why the CB1100 didn't take off?" Would we ever try to parse issues of "is it worth the price" or poor marketing or its weakness compared to other choices on the market? I don't think so. The CB would be by now one of those cult bikes in the US, and those who didn't get one at the time would be envying those who had the foresight to snap one up early at full price.

The variable here is black 2014s.

Interesting observation, for it most decidedly was the standard that saw its msrp drop substantially. But I'm glad they did, for I wold not have purchased a DLX at msrp, it was just a bit too much coin at the time for me. And I like the black with its subtle grey and red pinstriping on the tank.

counting motorcycles on the road, or reporting the reactions of one's friends to the price tag is not very scientific. but since speculating is fun, imagine:

Honda drops its containers of 2013s and they sell ok. But someone at headquarters has a bad night, and the next day arbitrarily decides North America will not get the black 2014, only 100 red DLXs. Those ship and sell out pretty quickly, at a higher MSRP. No more CB 1100s come to the US after that.

If this happened, would we ever see a video or a thread called "why the CB1100 didn't take off?" Would we ever try to parse issues of "is it worth the price" or poor marketing or its weakness compared to other choices on the market? I don't think so. The CB would be by now one of those cult bikes in the US, and those who didn't get one at the time would be envying those who had the foresight to snap one up early at full price.

The variable here is black 2014s.

Not confident that it will, but it wouldn't surprise me interest in it increases in the US in time as long as no more are imported. In 4-5 years, prices for our bikes could be in the 3k range, with say 20k miles. That would would be a very good bike to snatch up.

Fun things to think about. I think I would have enjoyed marketing particulary for product like motorcycles, or something I thought was worth it.

 

[peterbaron]

Let's look at the limited data available to the Forum's Research Division. It's not all that good as it relies on self reporting by members of the forum. So, while it's hard for members to conceive of any halfway intelligent CB1100 rider not belonging to the forum, we have to acknowledge the possibility that they don't and that some of the data at least may be deficient........
................

....base on this excerpt, you made me scratched my head.....does this indicate that any CB1100 rider/owner is only 50% intelligent ??
Not to pass comment on anybody's IQ the question is: I had a 2013 model - sold, and now, I still have the 2014 CB1100, does my intelligence =0% or 100%
Feel free to place your judgement responsibly, cos is not known how the owners who have 3 or more CBs will react... -n50% or +150n% IQ
:beerchug:

 

[VLJ_imp]

Guth Wrote:the AZ50K1 Buttload Conundrum.
I experienced one of those during my first week in the hospital.

 

[decarmine_imp]

Guth Wrote:the AZ50K1 Buttload Conundrum.
I experienced one of those during my first week in the hospital.

With all your problems -- and I've followed them here even after selling my CB -- you haven't lost your sense of humor!

Hang in there...