Victory Motorcycle to Wind Down Production

[LongRanger_imp]

To your point about Arlen Ness, assuming it was the styling of the bikes that ultimately hurt their acceptance in the marketplace, I would offer that Victory could have been out of touch. The largest US market for bikes is California, and I could be wrong but I don't think "pavement pounding boulevard cruisers" are what's in demand for riders with such close access to mountains, twisties, etc. No offense to anyone here, but Victory seemed like a "Midwest bike," good for stoplight-to-stoplight profiling but maybe not much else. Not sure that's appealing in the country's largest motorcycle market. Okay, I'm ducking for cover now...

 

[Stichill]

I think the Cali cruiser guys ride like this though!

Wry, pithy comment from a UK member on another forum:

'Victory Admit Defeat'

 

[kballowe_imp]

hey what were we talking about ?
.
OK, so if you own one of these, watch out for that second gear problem
.

.
.
.... and pretty soon.....
someone is going to say
"That's really clean in there"
"How many miles on that motor"
"What kind of oil are you using"
.
.
.
.
.

 

[AzBob_imp]

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

I'm with you on this, Ferret. If the CB had a shaft drive and water cooling, I'd still have bought it, but, be blowed if I'll let you get away with this outrageous assertion. What you say (...each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment) is not a fact; merely your opinion.

There are three kinds of people who own motorcycles (and let this ridiculously simplistic view fuel a discussion):
[li]those for whom it's all about riding;[/li] [li]those for whom it's all about making the bike better: adding a farkle or two or three, persuading themselves they can make the bike look better or go faster; and[/li] [li]the tinkerers who spend most of their lives staring happily at the bits on the workshop floor and wondering where on earth that last bolt goes, or getting off to adjust and lube their chain every 500 kms 'cause that's what you have to do.
[/li] I offer no criticism of any of these approaches. Whichever camp you inhabit is surely all part of the rich and diverse experience of motorcycling, isn't it?

If folk get their jollies from chains, oil and bits they have to figure out what to do with, and grease on their hands, good luck to them I say. But not me. No chance. I make no apology for the fact that I just want to get on it and ride even if I have no real idea what I'm doing. It's about the journey. It's about the ride. Getting out there with my bum on the AirHawk, burning through the fuel, adding to the carbon footprint and eating up the miles. Not worrying about the bronzing headers, the dirt or the hints of rust. Just riding.

If I never had to clean or service or attend to the thing at all; if all I had to do was get on it and ride it, I'd be a happy munchkin.

So, clearly I vote for option one. The rest of you? Discuss.

I'd rather have to do as little maintenance as possible, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy doing the maintenance -- even the chain cleaning/lubing.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

More likely, the shaft drive and the electronics were too costly to design and engineer, even considering at this point that the electronics package can be had almost off-the-shelf from companies such as Bosch. It has been my experience that the only motorcyclists that eschew electronic aids are people with an inflated sense of their own ability (after all, they have TC in MotoGP and I'm relatively certain that, like professional sports players, almost no one can match their ability).

I know that the BMW final drive failures have peaked a few years ago, but still, replacing them cost $2100 at the dealer. And there were PLENTY of them failing. I believe a Honda final drive job is around $400-$450 and you'll almost never hear of one needing replacement.

Modern chains don't bother me. And the chain lubes stay where they're supposed to stay a lot better than years ago. (Honda Chain Wax is great stuff)

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

And there's the reason (IMO) this whole chain vs. shaft drive debate is overblown and over discussed.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

I'm with you on this, Ferret. If the CB had a shaft drive and water cooling, I'd still have bought it, but, be blowed if I'll let you get away with this outrageous assertion. What you say (...each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment) is not a fact; merely your opinion.

There are three kinds of people who own motorcycles (and let this ridiculously simplistic view fuel a discussion):
[li]those for whom it's all about riding;[/li] [li]those for whom it's all about making the bike better: adding a farkle or two or three, persuading themselves they can make the bike look better or go faster; and[/li] [li]the tinkerers who spend most of their lives staring happily at the bits on the workshop floor and wondering where on earth that last bolt goes, or getting off to adjust and lube their chain every 500 kms 'cause that's what you have to do.
[/li] I offer no criticism of any of these approaches. Whichever camp you inhabit is surely all part of the rich and diverse experience of motorcycling, isn't it?

If folk get their jollies from chains, oil and bits they have to figure out what to do with, and grease on their hands, good luck to them I say. But not me. No chance. I make no apology for the fact that I just want to get on it and ride even if I have no real idea what I'm doing. It's about the journey. It's about the ride. Getting out there with my bum on the AirHawk, burning through the fuel, adding to the carbon footprint and eating up the miles. Not worrying about the bronzing headers, the dirt or the hints of rust. Just riding.

If I never had to clean or service or attend to the thing at all; if all I had to do was get on it and ride it, I'd be a happy munchkin.

So, clearly I vote for option one. The rest of you? Discuss.

I'd add a 4th type and put it before #1- Those that buy a bike because everyone else did, or their next door neighbor did, or their hated brother in law did, and they take it out to polish it and park it in their driveway so everyone knows they are a "biker".
EDIT: That guy probably bought a MOTUS for 40K! :rofl:

The context of the chain vs. shaft drive discussion is people who do a lot of miles on a bike, which is the expected nature of a person who buys a $40k, sorry, $31k sport-touring bike. I mean, you need to knock that $/mile figure down somehow. :banana:

 

[Stichill]

 

[Honda Lover_imp]

All I could think about after reading this post is I'm so looking forward to when I actually start putting on the kind of miles where maintaining chains & sprockets start to become a nuscence...I have a measly 7200 miles in 3 years....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bheezy27403_imp]

Chains are never a nuicance to me. Ride 26k or so, clean and wax maybe once in that span, then replace. Don't get all the fuss. These new chains are amazing.

 

[the Ferret]

Its probably an easier proposition for someone who has a garage, a lift so you don't have to lay on the ground and work, an air compressor big enough to pop off the front sprocket nut, an angle grinder and staking tools to break the stock chain and restake the new chain, a socket to fit the front sprocket nut, and other assorted wrenches and sckets to do the job, a shop manual to tell you torque values, and some mechanical aptitude.

It's really not the easiest job in the world. Bet a shop would charge $300 for labor, plus another $ 300 for parts.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

3 hours labor? I'd think it'd be an hour tops, but I haven't had it done yet, so what do I know.

 

[Capo]

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stichill]

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe the current discussion is regarding chain vs. non-chain final drive for frequent pleasure riding and touring.

 

[the Ferret]

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yea nobody is saying that.

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't have to ride like that to appreciate a shaft either. BMW's have always been known for their handling. Didn't Pridmore and Butler and Smith win some Superbike championships vs chain drive bikes with their shaft BMW? Hasn't BMW done alright off road with their GS series? FJR's are pretty good in the curves, Even Goldwings have been called 800 pound sport bikes and there's a guy in NC that outruns serious sportbikers on the Dragon with his wing. ST Hondas go pretty good in the curves. Moto Guzzi's have always been acknowledged for their good handling too.

Doesn't the Tenere' have a shaft?

 

[curlyjoe]

I'm with ferret on this one. I hate every aspect of chain maintenance. I clean it twice a year and lube it every 500-600 miles according to recommendation in the manual. More than once since I got the ST as a second bike, I'd go out in the garage intending to take the CB out for a ride and take a look at the chain and say "guess I'm taking the ST out today".

That motus certainly has a ton of "chain snapping" torque though. For the price I could buy a new FJR and a Concours with money left over (both with shafts).

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


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yea nobody is saying that.

If you completely discount performance and handling, only ride upright at 55 mph, and look at chain vs shaft as an economic decision, perhaps. But if you're saying that sport, race, off road, and other forms of motorcycles would be better off with shafts, you are wrong.


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You don't have to ride like that to appreciate a shaft either. BMW's have always been known for their handling. Didn't Pridmore and Butler and Smith win some Superbike championships vs chain drive bikes with their shaft BMW? Hasn't BMW done alright off road with their GS series? FJR's are pretty good in the curves, Even Goldwings have been called 800 pound sport bikes and there's a guy in NC that outruns serious sportbikers on the Dragon with his wing. ST Hondas go pretty good in the curves. Moto Guzzi's have always been acknowledged for their good handling too.

Doesn't the Tenere' have a shaft?

Yes and so does the new Honda VFR1200X. Sweet V4 too.

 

[Capo]

Yes, they all do 'pretty good' and if the guy on the Goldwing was on a Sport bike, with a chain drive, he'd probably do a little bit better. I just read a story about a guy who went round the world on a Bonnie with zero failures of any sort, so it's not hard to find anecdotes to support virtually any position.

I am and I know plenty of people who enjoy a whole lot of motorcycling miles who don't pine for a shaft or belt on anything other than a 700 pound lounge chair, and who feel that any potential cost of chain versus catastrophic shaft failure isn't worth splitting hairs over if the far more common, proven and easy to change gearing and breeze to fix chain drive delivers the superior performance they're looking for. The motorcycle industry isn't exactly running to shaft drive, is it? I'd like to think that the CB, with its Air cooling, chain, wire wheels and lack of any mod cons, isn't completely outmoded and unsuited for anything but pushing around the garage! At least it doesn't have points!


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[Stichill]

The reason there are three popular final drives is that they all have advantages/disadvantages in various applications. I'm not sure we can productively compare them in a theoretical vacuum.

Ferret I must say that a CB1100 is a rather odd choice of bike for a guy who dislikes chain/sprocket maintenance and upkeep as much as you do.

 

[the Ferret]

Yes, they all do 'pretty good' and if the guy on the Goldwing was on a Sport bike, with a chain drive, he'd probably do a little bit better. I just read a story about a guy who went round the world on a Bonnie with zero failures of any sort, so it's not hard to find anecdotes to support virtually any position.

I am and I know plenty of people who enjoy a whole lot of motorcycling miles who don't pine for a shaft or belt on anything other than a 700 pound lounge chair, and who feel that any potential cost of chain versus catastrophic shaft failure isn't worth splitting hairs over if the far more common, proven and easy to change gearing and breeze to fix chain drive delivers the superior performance they're looking for. The motorcycle industry isn't exactly running to shaft drive, is it? I'd like to think that the CB, with its Air cooling, chain, wire wheels and lack of any mod cons, isn't completely outmoded and unsuited for anything but pushing around the garage! At least it doesn't have points!


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Possibly... but it really boils down to rider ability and not drive system doesn't it?

I'm not going to beat Marquez around a racetrack even if he were on a 800 pound Goldwing with a shaft and I was on a 420 pound RC213VS with a chain and "probably" most wouldn't either.

Admittedly around a race track with 2 equal riders and 2 equal bikes, 1 shaft driven, one chain driven, the one on the chain would probably win, but we aren't riding on racetracks, we are riding on public highways.

Yes, they all do 'pretty good' and if the guy on the Goldwing was on a Sport bike, with a chain drive, he'd probably do a little bit better. I just read a story about a guy who went round the world on a Bonnie with zero failures of any sort, so it's not hard to find anecdotes to support virtually any position.

I am and I know plenty of people who enjoy a whole lot of motorcycling miles who don't pine for a shaft or belt on anything other than a 700 pound lounge chair, and who feel that any potential cost of chain versus catastrophic shaft failure isn't worth splitting hairs over if the far more common, proven and easy to change gearing and breeze to fix chain drive delivers the superior performance they're looking for. The motorcycle industry isn't exactly running to shaft drive, is it? I'd like to think that the CB, with its Air cooling, chain, wire wheels and lack of any mod cons, isn't completely outmoded and unsuited for anything but pushing around the garage! At least it doesn't have points!


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Wow 25,000 miles around the world on a single chain. If he'd have had a shaft he could have kept going and gone around the world 3 more times or more and not worried about it

 

[Stichill]

Indian's Victory

This pull quote certainly hits the mark:

"Motorcyclists are a picky lot. There have been a boatload of motorcycles that just didn’t resonate with buyers for the most arcane reasons. Motorcyclists will happily damn a great bike for some trifling matter."

 

[the Ferret]

The reason there are three popular final drives is that they all have advantages/disadvantages in various applications. I'm not sure we can productively compare them in a theoretical vacuum.

Ferret I must say that a CB1100 is a rather odd choice of bike for a guy who dislikes chain/sprocket maintenance and upkeep as much as you do.

Well the reason we got into this is back in post 47 AZbob said he liked everything about the Motus but for a bike that was supposed to be a long distance bike the chain was a deal killer, and off we took.

As for me I LOVE my CB1100 but I didn't buy it as a long distance mile eater (I just roll up a lot of miles lol) and if shopping for a touring/sport touring machine would never have considered the chain drive CB 1100. For a long distance mount I agree with AZbob.. I want a shaft drive machine.

For local riding and maybe a couple states trip for a week I don't mind the CB, but I wouldn't want to spend weeks at a time covering tens of thousands of miles on it. Rather have an ST or a FJR or something.

 

[Stichill]

Alright. Bringing this discussion back around somewhat to the thread topic:

Now that Polaris management has made the decision to end the Victory brand, what should be their next moves to bolster Indian as their flagship street motorcycle brand? Personally I'm trying to understand the future of a brand making nothing but bikes that look like they are from the 1940s.

 

[the Ferret]

Isnt that what Harley makes? And they are #1 in the US big bike market