Prices unexpected

j3gq_imp

Been there
Thread starter
After buying a new EX in spring 2020, I kept looking at prices of CB1100/s built in 2017 or later. Just for curiosity. Since the CB was sold in different countries for quite different prices to start with, I will just quote my observations in %, not in Euros or USD. Here is what I found:

- throughout 2020, prices in Central Europa for a 2nd hand EX were about 80% of new (bike without damage, up to 20,000 km, any color).
- the RS was hit harder, same condition mostly offered at 70-75%, sometimes at 65%, and still lingering on the market (regardless of the date of initial registration 17-19).

My take, buyers of the RS were a different group of riders, and/or had different expectations, and got more disappointed. So the number of bikes on the market went up, and not enough buyers. It also appeared that the RS did often go through more hands in a shorter time. This seemed to confirm the expectations theory.

This year things have changed a little. Roughly stable (but low) prices for the RS, in particular the black edition isn't in demand. But asking prices for the EX have clearly gone up. They are fewer on the market, they sell quickly - which is usually an indication, that the asking price got met more or less. And I see low mileage EX (1 or 2 y old) in excellent shape which are now offered at the original price tag.

Is this representative ? Of course not. Just my observations in a few markets / countries. Interesting, btw, in France prices for the RS and the EX seem to steadily go down with time and with respect to last year. For the Northern or the Southern countries in Europe, ... I don't know, I don't follow these markets.

Disclaimer: I am long on Honda CB1100 (EX) motorcycles, this is my personal opinion, I wrote this article myself, and you better don't give a damn. Don't bet on rising prices, or you might get burned. But DO enjoy riding. :thumbsup:
 
you totally can. it just costs about 20k.

buy a '17 EX

buy an RS swingarm, wheels, wire harness, brake systems, fenders, seat, ECU, handlebars, foot controls, and exhaust.

swap out all the parts

boom: brand new CB1100 RS.
 
Thread starter
Let’s compare with import from Germany (the cheapest market in the Eu)
RS ~ 8000 € ~ equals 9200 usd at current exchange rates
(or even cheaper if you qual for a VAT refund)
add shipping ~ 1000 harbor to harbor
pickup yourself e.g. in New York and ride home = counts as fun
taxes and paperwork in your home state ???
- - -
looks like roughly 11000 usd to me
So it may be time to prepare a visit to your cousin in Europe.
 
Except you can't do any of that because the imported bike would be illegal to register in the US for legal road use. You wouldn't be able to get a license plate.
 
Thread starter
Not that I know anything about it, but what’s the purpose of such an unusual restriction in a country where hardly anything is “home-made” no more (exception Boeing), and most cars come in from far away ? It cannot be market protection since automotive prices are higher in most of the rest of the world.
 
A non-US model has not been certified by our Department of Transportation or EPA.
DOT regulations apply to mirror and light size and color and placement, license plate holder size, fender coverage, passenger grab straps/rails, etc. Tires must be DOT approved, exhaust/airbox must meet noise restrictions. And braking tests must be passed.

Technically, it can't even be imported into the country unless a bond is issued to guarantee it is exported back in 12 months. But there are loopholes.....
 
pekingduck_imp said:
A non-US model has not been certified by our Department of Transportation or EPA.
DOT regulations apply to mirror and light size and color and placement, license plate holder size, fender coverage, passenger grab straps/rails, etc. Tires must be DOT approved, exhaust/airbox must meet noise restrictions. And braking tests must be passed.

Technically, it can't even be imported into the country unless a bond is issued to guarantee it is exported back in 12 months. But there are loopholes.....
all this is fact, but the meat and potatoes of the issue is also one of protectionism. they use complex red tape like this to prevent "non-us" models from being brought into the US simply because those models were not manufactured with the same handicaps as those that were approved for US roads. Take the CB1300 for example. Honda just didn't see a purpose to making all the modifications and adjustments required to make the CB1300 pass inspection in California, and because they didn't make it pass in california, it's not worth selling in the US market. if it's not worth selling they're not going to go through all the expense of paying to have the testing done (yes, the government makes the manufacturer pay for all of it). If the testing isn't done you can't register the bike here, at least not until it becomes "vintage" in 25 years.

a great example of this is all the tiny japanese kei cars that are being imported to the US in droves right now. they're all just now turning 25, and the US market is collecting them like beanie babies. none of those cars would even come within 100 miles of passing EPA emissions regulations, crash testing safety, or body restrictions imposed by the US government, so until they turned 25 they were completely illegal to have here.
 
Thread starter
All of this makes sense to me, for a car or m/c which otherwise doesn't exist in the U.S. market.
But why would this a apply to a bike which is literally a DLX with a few improvements ? The importer should just be able to prove that the bike imported is a CB1100 DLX plus a few mods. A different exhaust pipe cannot stall this process in a country where literally any exhaust can be mounted.

I know it's not gonna fly, or nobody is mad enough to try, but which items on the RS are really the show-stoppers, in your view ?
 
misterprofessionality_imp said:
pekingduck_imp said:
A non-US model has not been certified by our Department of Transportation or EPA.
DOT regulations apply to mirror and light size and color and placement, license plate holder size, fender coverage, passenger grab straps/rails, etc. Tires must be DOT approved, exhaust/airbox must meet noise restrictions. And braking tests must be passed.

Technically, it can't even be imported into the country unless a bond is issued to guarantee it is exported back in 12 months. But there are loopholes.....
all this is fact, but the meat and potatoes of the issue is also one of protectionism. they use complex red tape like this to prevent "non-us" models from being brought into the US simply because those models were not manufactured with the same handicaps as those that were approved for US roads. Take the CB1300 for example. Honda just didn't see a purpose to making all the modifications and adjustments required to make the CB1300 pass inspection in California, and because they didn't make it pass in california, it's not worth selling in the US market. if it's not worth selling they're not going to go through all the expense of paying to have the testing done (yes, the government makes the manufacturer pay for all of it). If the testing isn't done you can't register the bike here, at least not until it becomes "vintage" in 25 years.

a great example of this is all the tiny japanese kei cars that are being imported to the US in droves right now. they're all just now turning 25, and the US market is collecting them like beanie babies. none of those cars would even come within 100 miles of passing EPA emissions regulations, crash testing safety, or body restrictions imposed by the US government, so until they turned 25 they were completely illegal to have here.
all this is fact, but the meat and potatoes of the issue is also one of protectionism. they use complex red tape like this to prevent "non-us" models from being brought into the US simply because those models were not manufactured with the same handicaps as those that were approved for US roads. Take the CB1300 for example. Honda just didn't see a purpose to making all the modifications and adjustments required to make the CB1300 pass inspection in California, and because they didn't make it pass in california, it's not worth selling in the US market. if it's not worth selling they're not going to go through all the expense of paying to have the testing done (yes, the government makes the manufacturer pay for all of it). If the testing isn't done you can't register the bike here, at least not until it becomes "vintage" in 25 years.

a great example of this is all the tiny japanese kei cars that are being imported to the US in droves right now. they're all just now turning 25, and the US market is collecting them like beanie babies. none of those cars would even come within 100 miles of passing EPA emissions regulations, crash testing safety, or body restrictions imposed by the US government, so until they turned 25 they were completely illegal to have here.
Even the 25 year rule is threatened in some states...
Opinion: Maine's Mitsubishi Delica Dilemma is Troubling
 
j3gq_imp said:
All of this makes sense to me, for a car or m/c which otherwise doesn't exist in the U.S. market.
But why would this a apply to a bike which is literally a DLX with a few improvements ? The importer should just be able to prove that the bike imported is a CB1100 DLX plus a few mods. A different exhaust pipe cannot stall this process in a country where literally any exhaust can be mounted.

I know it's not gonna fly, or nobody is mad enough to try, but which items on the RS are really the show-stoppers, in your view ?
the confusing inconsistency you're talking about is primarily the result of how sovereign a US State can be vs the federal government. you're correct in that the US will allow you to mount literally any exhaust you want and radically modify a bike and still ride it on the road. however, it all depends on where you are. in South Carolina, I literally only need one mirror, one headlight, and two wheels, and the vehicle can be made road legal, as long as the VIN number registers as a road legal vehicle, or else it qualifies as a hand-built bike with no VIN numbers. However, if i take my showroom fresh CB1100 to California, put an aftermarket slip on exhaust on it, and ride it down the pacific coast highway, i'm almost guaranteed to get pulled over and ticketed for being too loud/illegally modified/illegally polluting with poor emissions, and if i tried to register the bike in the state i would be rejected upon inspection.

Also, I know what you're thinking...couldn't you just modify the RS a bit and register it as "hand built"? not really. If it had any kind of VIN at all you'd be forced to use the original VIN. you can't just scratch it off and say the bike has no VIN.

for me, the show stopper on that bike is the 17" wheels. that makes such a huge difference in so many facets of the bike. Everything else is just icing.
 
j3gq_imp said:
All of this makes sense to me, for a car or m/c which otherwise doesn't exist in the U.S. market.
But why would this a apply to a bike which is literally a DLX with a few improvements ? The importer should just be able to prove that the bike imported is a CB1100 DLX plus a few mods. A different exhaust pipe cannot stall this process in a country where literally any exhaust can be mounted.

I know it's not gonna fly, or nobody is mad enough to try, but which items on the RS are really the show-stoppers, in your view ?
As MrP says, one loophole is vintage vehicles over 25 years old can be imported into the US, (but still not registerable in California).

Importing a newer vehicle into the US is an expensive proposition. Certifying a $2m Ferrari may be worth it, not a $10k bike. And as far as the exhaust, there are 50 different state interpretations, but if it comes in and is inspected, it would be hard to pass that gate.

In Germany, i understand even very minor modifications have to be TUV approved.
 
If Honda had just given us a shot at the RS, all the above talk would have been wasted. I would have bought one, especially in the cool new colors Europe got. The USA probably buys more Hondas than any other country, and we get crapped on by Honda all the time. Think they are going to give us a chance to buy the close-out versions of the RS/EX. Hell no, they would lose money. It has never been about brand loyalty to Honda. It is called, made the most bucks you can, period. Thanks Honda, and you are welcome for all the ones I have owned since 1973!
 
Thread starter
We certainly strayed off from the OP subject. I thought the overall might be interesting to all of us, in any country.
 
There are few certainties in life. As a wise man said, death and taxes. Another is that there’s a much better than even chance any thread on this forum will stray from its intent.
 
Cormanus_imp said:
There are few certainties in life. As a wise man said, death and taxes. Another is that there’s a much better than even chance any thread on this forum will stray from its intent.
Yeah, it could always be worse and be a thread from any other forum or social media outlet.

But in the spirit of the thread subject heading, I've noticed recently that cheeseburger prices are unexpectedly higher these days.
 
You can always order the RS parts from Honda and install them.

Probably cheaper than any other route.
 
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