My review of the CB1100 (2018 EX)

[Tev62]

Mate that tip about the suspension worked wonders for my bike, much appreciated

Excellent!

Olof, yes, a bit of extra pre-load on the back (even if you leave the front alone) has always worked for me. It just puts the bike on its nose that bit more and does improve cornering feel and poise. Try it.

Don't mind me if I add, although pumping up the preload is ok for raising the back, suspension will work mostly in top of it's travel, thus not optimally. Try dropping the the triple clamps for 1cm, it will have the same effect on geometry, but the shocks will work in the mid-travel where it's supposed to be

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

Yes, a very common mod people make on bikes to sharpen up the steering because you have just shortened the trail of the bike but this should only be necessary if you run out of preload adjustment to achieve the same thing on a standard unmodified bike.

I have to disagree with you a little on setting the preload at the mid point of your travel. A general target for where the suspension should sit in its stroke is about 25-30% when you are sitting on your bike when fully clobbered up. Having it mid stroke is too much use of that travel, the compression forces on the road will always be greater than the effects of a dip in the road. At 50% sag you are losing overall suspenstion travel.

Here is my take on preload when I got new suspension on my Daytona. I can be a little long winded so apologies for the length in advance!

 

[j3gq_imp]

@Tev62
Looked at your video again, really nice. Thank you !
But I have to admit looking at left traffic from the motorcycle perspective gets me surely dizzy.
Renting a car in the U.K. has always been a piece of cake. But on a motorcycle I would kill myself, not in the first 5 minutes, but after some "relaxation" time, say after 2 hours. In the rental car you have the "wrong" steering wheel inside the cockpit to remember. But on the cycle, all you have is traffic as a constant reminder of who is supposed to be where. Once you have traveled a quite road for a while, then a turn or a round about, and finally a wide truck "on the wrong side". That would be the end of me.

 

[tod.branko_imp]

Mate that tip about the suspension worked wonders for my bike, much appreciated

Excellent!

Olof, yes, a bit of extra pre-load on the back (even if you leave the front alone) has always worked for me. It just puts the bike on its nose that bit more and does improve cornering feel and poise. Try it.

Don't mind me if I add, although pumping up the preload is ok for raising the back, suspension will work mostly in top of it's travel, thus not optimally. Try dropping the the triple clamps for 1cm, it will have the same effect on geometry, but the shocks will work in the mid-travel where it's supposed to be

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

Yes, a very common mod people make on bikes to sharpen up the steering because you have just shortened the trail of the bike but this should only be necessary if you run out of preload adjustment to achieve the same thing on a standard unmodified bike.

I have to disagree with you a little on setting the preload at the mid point of your travel. A general target for where the suspension should sit in its stroke is about 25-30% when you are sitting on your bike when fully clobbered up. Having it mid stroke is too much use of that travel, the compression forces on the road will always be greater than the effects of a dip in the road. At 50% sag you are losing overall suspenstion travel.

Here is my take on preload when I got new suspension on my Daytona. I can be a little long winded so apologies for the length in advance!

Excellent!

Olof, yes, a bit of extra pre-load on the back (even if you leave the front alone) has always worked for me. It just puts the bike on its nose that bit more and does improve cornering feel and poise. Try it.

Don't mind me if I add, although pumping up the preload is ok for raising the back, suspension will work mostly in top of it's travel, thus not optimally. Try dropping the the triple clamps for 1cm, it will have the same effect on geometry, but the shocks will work in the mid-travel where it's supposed to be

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

Yes, a very common mod people make on bikes to sharpen up the steering because you have just shortened the trail of the bike but this should only be necessary if you run out of preload adjustment to achieve the same thing on a standard unmodified bike.

I have to disagree with you a little on setting the preload at the mid point of your travel. A general target for where the suspension should sit in its stroke is about 25-30% when you are sitting on your bike when fully clobbered up. Having it mid stroke is too much use of that travel, the compression forces on the road will always be greater than the effects of a dip in the road. At 50% sag you are losing overall suspenstion travel.

Here is my take on preload when I got new suspension on my Daytona. I can be a little long winded so apologies for the length in advance!

I'm not saying to set the sag on 50% but to allow sag to be normal and the suspension to work in the mid range, pumping up preload for geometry rather than to offset the weight increase so that the sag will be, again normal, it a horrible idea when it comes to ride comfortable, you will end with way too much rear end chatter, and bouncing off imperfections in the road and speed bumps. I know that because I'm a lazy rider in a sense that when I have a bike on which I'd take the Mrs out more frequently, I'd pump up the preload and leave it like that even when I'm riding alone, horrible idea, especially for my riding style

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

 

[Tev62]

".....pumping up preload for geometry rather than to offset the weight increase so that the sag will be, again normal, it a horrible idea...."

Ah yes, totally agree there Tod, 100%. I do believe a lot of riders misunderstand that preload is there to offset the weight of the rider and load and that if you don't make that adjustment the secondary effect is taking your trail out of its optimum value as the manufacturer designed it.

 

[the Ferret]

I love suspension experts... they almost never agree with each other lol... wait, experts on ANYTHING, almost never agree with each other.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I love suspension experts... they almost never agree with each other lol... wait, experts on ANYTHING, almost never agree with each other.

... you probably haven't read the suspension experts on the Africa Twin forum. (sheez) It gets very religious.


If I follow any one of the Kool-Aids, then I am clearly not enjoying my suspension for my riding weight. Truth is to date: It has been bliss.

 

[the Ferret]

no, but I've read them on the FJR forum lol. One of them called my suspension settings MUSH and said he'd refuse to ride on it. I'm certainly no expert, but know what feels good to me! lol

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

no, but I've read them on the FJR forum lol. One of them called my suspension settings MUSH and said he'd refuse to ride on it. I'm certainly no expert, but know what feels good to me! lol

 

[Tev62]

But you dont need to be an expert to understand what preload is for, its premise is really, really simple.

 

[tod.branko_imp]

I love suspension experts... they almost never agree with each other lol... wait, experts on ANYTHING, almost never agree with each other.

Ain't that the truth, just like choosing the right religion. I can just read and listen and apply what I learned, as long as it makes sense in my head and works in practice I'll take it.

I like the way Dave Moss approaches suspension, if you don't know him here is a link to his website

Dave Moss Tuning Homepage - Dave Moss Tuning

End of the day, setting up suspension is a heuristic, keep making mistakes and eventually you'll get there

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

 

[the Ferret]

tod..my problem with guys like Dave Moss et al is they are all recommending to set up a taut bike for racing/aggressive riding whereas a lot of people just want to set up their bike so it is comfortable and cushy while riding. Especially the guys in the "normal CB age group" lol. Just click on his website..do you see any pleasure riders in the pics? No. He is sitting on a race bike, the pics are all of guys riding aggressively, the upcoming events are all track related. You set up a bike like that for the pleasure ride on the street and it will be harsh and unforgiving. Great suggestions for set up for the ricky racers, not so much for the pleasure rider...and try as much as you want to argue the set up should be the same, no they shouldn't. At 70, I don't ride like I was 30 anymore, and my bike requires to be set up differently than it did back then. Of course this is just my opinion and I'm certainly no expert.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Nuttin' wrong having a CB1100 suspension set-up that will do its best to soak up those surprise road potholes. Certainly better than cracking a tooth or sprangin' a wrist.

 

[alprider]

The ideal suspension depends on the driving style (+ load) and the type of road

or for example
In certain situations, a spongy (comfortable ) landing gear can suddenly cause an unsafe driving experience

But even a simply incorrectly adjusted landing gear can lead to unsafe situations

 

[Houtman_imp]

I am wit Ferrett , a comfortable set up for ME and ME alone !

 

[tod.branko_imp]

tod..my problem with guys like Dave Moss et al is they are all recommending to set up a taut bike for racing/aggressive riding whereas a lot of people just want to set up their bike so it is comfortable and cushy while riding. Especially the guys in the "normal CB age group" lol. Just click on his website..do you see any pleasure riders in the pics? No. He is sitting on a race bike, the pics are all of guys riding aggressively, the upcoming events are all track related. You set up a bike like that for the pleasure ride on the street and it will be harsh and unforgiving. Great suggestions for set up for the ricky racers, not so much for the pleasure rider...and try as much as you want to argue the set up should be the same, no they shouldn't. At 70, I don't ride like I was 30 anymore, and my bike requires to be set up differently than it did back then. Of course this is just my opinion and I'm certainly no expert.

I fail to see where is the misunderstanding because I argue the same thing. With the example at hand I argue against it because I've done the same thing, and I'm sure I've mentioned it before here on the forum, but let me say it again just for the sake of it - I have had an issue with with a lot of wind blast at high speed and an instable front wheel, I thought I could solve it with a simple fix of increasing the preload, but the end result was rear end chatter and rear wheel bounce (when I say bounce, I mean the rear wheel would physically bounce off the ground on rough patches of the road and over speed bumps). This was the reason to finally raise the seat by 1 inch, change the bars for dirt bars with less raise, pushe them more to the front and drop the triple clamps by 8mm. Once the front end was sorted, the rear was returned to normal preload and everything went back to smooth. And all this because ride was set for ME.

Now if I can't offer and alternative to something I've tried and know why it was a less then an ideal solution then what's the point of having this discourse?

If the suspension is set up for comfort, changing it for the sake for modifying the riders triangle will disrupt it's compliance.

I pointed out Dave Moss not because of how he sets bikes up, but because he has a rationale. It's easy to understand the why and the what and the how, and apply it ones own situation.

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

 

[Tev62]

Without any damping adjustment we have very little control of the harshness or suppleness of the ride but I do think Honda have struck a very good balance of comfort with control on my 2017MY EX. I wouldn't generally but I find you can ride the bike quite spiritedly without worrying to much about getting out of shape. I am a heavy guy and I am surprised at how well it copes with my weight as it comes out of the factory. Personally I would even take a little less damping for a slightly more plusher ride but that's just because my bones ache. How do earlier model year bikes suspension compare to the 2017 and on years, there must be a good few who have had both?

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I guess I have been fortunate too to have my present and past Hondas suspension very close to riding needs when received from setup at the dealer. I think in all cases I increased the rear preload only a few notches and left it at that.

My older models required much more effort on the front and rear adjustments.

 

[Jfro5687_imp]

I’m with you on that GO. On a number of occasions on bumpy back roads when pressing on a bit (a few years back on much more powerful bikes I might add) I have felt things getting a bit out of shape beneath me. I interpreted the feedback that my suspension was working hard and finding its limit so backed the speed off. I have read from numerous places that if you don’t really know what you are doing with suspension you should leave things alone. So my ride is always pretty much stock (even when there is plenty of adjustment on a bike) and I accepted that sensation as a sort of self imposed warning for me to ‘cool it’. I don’t seem to find that point any more because I ride at much more sensible speeds nowadays. I suppose the difference is that with age and experience I now know the CB has a point where it will get squirrely. I just don’t go looking for it.