Stichill
Road warrior
^ I've had this same experience with the Z8s on a different motorcycle.
Metzeler Roadtec Z8 Interact
- Thread starter Django
- Start date
mininsx_imp
Been there
You mean a rubber tire will slip when in contact with paint on the road? (sarcasm)
C'mon, any tire will slip on a painted line.
C'mon, any tire will slip on a painted line.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Yep. And on greasy tar snakes, too. We have plenty of 'em out here.
jimgl3_imp
Been there
Stichill
Road warrior
Disagree with regard to dry painted lines and at least two tires.mininsx_imp said:
Michelin Pilot Street Radial = no dry slip on painted lines
Michelin Pilot Road 4 = no dry slip on painted lines
That's two exceptions to the categorical 'any'.
the Ferret
Road warrior
For the last 25 years prior to my retiring 4 years ago, I was in the Highway Traffic Safety Field which included supplying paint for striping highways to Municipalities. About a dozen years ago or so, in the U.S., the Federal government put out a new spec and regulation for Highway Paint. While being oil based prior, the new spec called for striping highways ( center lines and edge lines, cross walk bars and stop bars) with only water based paint. This is a Federal spec and nowhere in the country should they still be using oil based paint. It is against Federal law to do so. It cannot be purchased in 55 gallon drums which striping machines use, only in 5 gallon pails which can be used in parking lots and on curbs. There is no reason for lines to be slippery with water based paint.
Now tar snakes are still oil based, so when wet they can be slippery. But painted lines...no, they should not be slippery. BTW a painted line on the highway has a life expectancy of one year. I would venture to say, there are no oil based line stripes anywhere in the country and haven't been for a very long time.
Edit: note some municipalites do install a thermoplastc based tape for stop bars and cross walks and lane direction arrows mainly at busy intersections. These are strips of plastic that are bonded to the asphalt. THey are very expensive, which is why they are not widely used, however these could be slippery when wet. Their advantage is life expectancy over paint, as they have a multi year life expectancy. So expensive however that only municipalites with large budgets can afford to use it.
Now tar snakes are still oil based, so when wet they can be slippery. But painted lines...no, they should not be slippery. BTW a painted line on the highway has a life expectancy of one year. I would venture to say, there are no oil based line stripes anywhere in the country and haven't been for a very long time.
Edit: note some municipalites do install a thermoplastc based tape for stop bars and cross walks and lane direction arrows mainly at busy intersections. These are strips of plastic that are bonded to the asphalt. THey are very expensive, which is why they are not widely used, however these could be slippery when wet. Their advantage is life expectancy over paint, as they have a multi year life expectancy. So expensive however that only municipalites with large budgets can afford to use it.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Ferret, very interesting, thanks.
You will find the tar snakes here to be quite slippery when it's hot. I'm not sure about when it's wet -- I'm usually not riding then. I truly believe the highway department uses them as a speed deterrent on curvy roads, applying them in regular intervals perpendicular to the direction of travel, regardless of the condition of the road surface. It's unnerving to bank into a curve when your tires are constantly losing their grip.
You will find the tar snakes here to be quite slippery when it's hot. I'm not sure about when it's wet -- I'm usually not riding then. I truly believe the highway department uses them as a speed deterrent on curvy roads, applying them in regular intervals perpendicular to the direction of travel, regardless of the condition of the road surface. It's unnerving to bank into a curve when your tires are constantly losing their grip.
the Ferret
Road warrior
I find it amazing that tires can feel the " lip" of a tar snake, even though it is only 1/8" high and a couple inches wide and when crossing them obliquly it feels to me that tires are constantly searching for a flat level surface. Wierd feeling.
I thought tar snakes were only really slippery when hot until I had a bit of a slide on one in the pouring rain in Sydney during the Ride Down Under. At least I think it was a tar snake running in line with my direction of travel. Nasty things, snakes.
Just thought I'd add my two cents to this thread. I got about 11,500 miles out of my stock Dunlops. The rear tire was plenty squared off but no cords showing. I figured I got my miles out of them.
Fast forward to last fall. I ordered a set of Metzeler Z8 Interact.I wanted to stick with stock sizes and they were easy to obtain. I have been noticing the center tread has really been wearing down. I am a city commuter most of the time and lots of highway miles out here to Colorado.
This morning upon doing my daily tire check… Yikes! Cords are starting to show. About 1 mm gap in spots of the middle tread area. So we are canceling today's loop to Wilkerson Pass. We start our trip home tomorrow, 994 miles over two days. And plenty hot across the Central Plains of the US. Not sure what to do but take it easy and chance it. Unless you all think that is crazy.
Sad thing is, I have a new PR3 in my shop at home. I wanted to try to get my wear out of these before I changed it. Looks like I did, LOL. Just that it got only maybe half of what I got out of the stock Dunlops.
The Metzler's have been great in the rain. And plenty grippy on twisties. But that center tread compound is just too darn soft in my opinion. Don't think I'll be going back to these.
Here's wishing for PR4 in our size. I do have a PR3 front tire at home as well but the dang thing was 6 1/2 years old when shipped to me. From two different vendors! I realize they're out of production but geez that's really cheesy. I'm probably going to save one and use it anyway and return the other. Be careful on ordering any last PR3 stock in U.S.
P.S. I tried to attach a picture, not sure if I have rights to that yet as a new registrant. Or maybe it's too big. Sorry for my noob picture skills here
Fast forward to last fall. I ordered a set of Metzeler Z8 Interact.I wanted to stick with stock sizes and they were easy to obtain. I have been noticing the center tread has really been wearing down. I am a city commuter most of the time and lots of highway miles out here to Colorado.
This morning upon doing my daily tire check… Yikes! Cords are starting to show. About 1 mm gap in spots of the middle tread area. So we are canceling today's loop to Wilkerson Pass. We start our trip home tomorrow, 994 miles over two days. And plenty hot across the Central Plains of the US. Not sure what to do but take it easy and chance it. Unless you all think that is crazy.
Sad thing is, I have a new PR3 in my shop at home. I wanted to try to get my wear out of these before I changed it. Looks like I did, LOL. Just that it got only maybe half of what I got out of the stock Dunlops.
The Metzler's have been great in the rain. And plenty grippy on twisties. But that center tread compound is just too darn soft in my opinion. Don't think I'll be going back to these.
Here's wishing for PR4 in our size. I do have a PR3 front tire at home as well but the dang thing was 6 1/2 years old when shipped to me. From two different vendors! I realize they're out of production but geez that's really cheesy. I'm probably going to save one and use it anyway and return the other. Be careful on ordering any last PR3 stock in U.S.
P.S. I tried to attach a picture, not sure if I have rights to that yet as a new registrant. Or maybe it's too big. Sorry for my noob picture skills here
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
1000 miles on a tire with cords exposed. Wear plenty of ATGATT and expect a blowout and be happy if it doesn't happen.
Just put a new tire on it. We really do NOT want to read about any accidents.
Good luck.
PS. You should be able to post pics. No time limit for noobs.
Just put a new tire on it. We really do NOT want to read about any accidents.
Good luck.
PS. You should be able to post pics. No time limit for noobs.
johnf514_imp
Running like a top
Crazy to see those cords poking through on MN-Ed's post. How many miles did you put on them for that to happen?
I have 4K miles on my rear Z8, plus a track day, and no issues here
I have 4K miles on my rear Z8, plus a track day, and no issues here
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
MN-Ed, sorry you're going to miss Wilkerson, but the real jewels in that area are Tarryall Road and Hwy 67. Hopefully you can hit them the next time you're out here.
Thanks. We did come thru Wilkerson on Weds on our way back from Ouray loop but ran into some rain of Biblical proportions. 110 miles worth, and plenty of mud/gravel washed onto road too. Today was to catch some views that we missed on Weds. But raining over there and on 67 today too, it looks.LongRanger_imp said:
UPDATE.... just got back from Apex Sports in CO Springs. New set of BS BT-54s on her now. Front was down to its wear bars too. Not my first choice in tire, but they will be fine and I admit the 1000 mile trip was a crazy idea. Fine dealership, wish I had them in MN. Service Manager Levi and the mechanic crew were a pleasure to deal with. They had my tires (and a set of Metzeler Interact, lol) I n stock and made room for me!Lord Popgun_imp said:
My Metzeler Z8 Interacts had about 6,200 miles on them. The cords appeared pretty quickly, like over 400 miles yesterday. Got 11K+ out of my stock Dunlops, although I had a good flat spot going on the rear by the time I changed them too.johnf514_imp said:
6,200 miles seems weak to me, but I spend 90+ % on that center part of the tread. Maybe the BT-54's will be better for my city commuting.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
I've found the BT-54 fronts to wear quickly -- within 5000 miles. The rears seem to do better, at least for me. Glad you found Apex Sports. Yes, they're well known around these parts and come highly recommended.
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
MN-Ed,
I'm glad it worked out and I'm GLAD nothing bad happened!
I'm glad it worked out and I'm GLAD nothing bad happened!
Henrik_imp
Been there
There seems to be a fair amount of negative views of the Z8 tyre on here, something that I do find a bit strange. I really like the Z8, and am very happy to have replaced the original Dunlop D205s with the Metzelers. For me, after some 6’000km, I don’t find anything to fault with it. The grip has been good in all conditions, and although it has been mostly dry for my rides I have had a go in some very wet conditions as well. Certainly I have never found it to slip in the dry on any white marks over here, and never any unexpected reaction. I really like the profile as it is round in a way that makes it very smooth to put on an angle. It sort of rolls in to a corner, and is not in any way jerky as I have found some other brands to be. I used to love the Pirelli Rosso on my previous bike, and these had a similar profile. Granted the Pirellis were much sportier, but so was the bike I had.
This image tries to show the difference inprofile between the Z8 and the PR3. The Z8 is a bit rounder and the PR a bit "flatter".
I suppose the very different reactions we find is down to the sort of riding we all do, and then personal preference as to how a bike should react. Even though I do commute with my bike a fair bit, I still avoid as much as possible riding very long distances in a straight line. Judging by the images provided earlier, the Z8 is clearly not suited for straight line riding, and I would say that if this is how you ride then something else would be better. I have not tried any recent versions of the Michelin PR3, but I think it was the PR2 I had on my ST2 in the early 2000’s. I did not like it because of its profile. Grip was fine, but it was somehow too “flat”. I get the feeling that it was designed to stand up better when mostly riding straight due to its shape.
Another thing I find is that us motorcycle riders are usually very peculiar with our tyre choices. Small differences in tyre lead to very different opinions. One brand will typically have a style of tyres and profiles that correspond to your riding, and the way you want it to feel while riding. This then leads to a feeling of insecurity when there is a change, which will end with a very negative opinion of a tyre that others will find great. Due to this, it really becomes hard to recommend a tyre to somebody else, unless you really know how they ride, and perhaps the sort of tyres they are used to riding with.
At the end of the day, there are some that find the Z8 to be a perfect tyre for the CB1100. I am happy that I could find something in the proper size as I really do not want to go with a 160. I did not like the Dunlops it came with, and also I can no longer find those here, so I was left with little choice. The only other alternative was the Bridgestone T30 EVO, but again from past experience I usually do not like Bridgestone profiles. I should also add that I do not seek to get a maximum number of kms out of my tyres. I ride to fully enjoy the ride, and I know this has a cost. If I change tyres after 6’000km then that is really not an issue. That said, the Z8s at 6’000km look to be far from done, so no worries there!
This image tries to show the difference inprofile between the Z8 and the PR3. The Z8 is a bit rounder and the PR a bit "flatter".
I suppose the very different reactions we find is down to the sort of riding we all do, and then personal preference as to how a bike should react. Even though I do commute with my bike a fair bit, I still avoid as much as possible riding very long distances in a straight line. Judging by the images provided earlier, the Z8 is clearly not suited for straight line riding, and I would say that if this is how you ride then something else would be better. I have not tried any recent versions of the Michelin PR3, but I think it was the PR2 I had on my ST2 in the early 2000’s. I did not like it because of its profile. Grip was fine, but it was somehow too “flat”. I get the feeling that it was designed to stand up better when mostly riding straight due to its shape.
Another thing I find is that us motorcycle riders are usually very peculiar with our tyre choices. Small differences in tyre lead to very different opinions. One brand will typically have a style of tyres and profiles that correspond to your riding, and the way you want it to feel while riding. This then leads to a feeling of insecurity when there is a change, which will end with a very negative opinion of a tyre that others will find great. Due to this, it really becomes hard to recommend a tyre to somebody else, unless you really know how they ride, and perhaps the sort of tyres they are used to riding with.
At the end of the day, there are some that find the Z8 to be a perfect tyre for the CB1100. I am happy that I could find something in the proper size as I really do not want to go with a 160. I did not like the Dunlops it came with, and also I can no longer find those here, so I was left with little choice. The only other alternative was the Bridgestone T30 EVO, but again from past experience I usually do not like Bridgestone profiles. I should also add that I do not seek to get a maximum number of kms out of my tyres. I ride to fully enjoy the ride, and I know this has a cost. If I change tyres after 6’000km then that is really not an issue. That said, the Z8s at 6’000km look to be far from done, so no worries there!
Stichill
Road warrior
Thoughtful post, Henrik. Very good observations and conclusions.
the Ferret
Road warrior
I've only had one set of Metzlers Z8's on one of my Yamahas. Nothing wrong with the handling. Longevity was the issue for me. They were gone at 6000 miles (10,000k.) if they only lasted 6000 kms (3700 miles) they would be useless to me no matter how well they handled. I ride too many miles to put up with that. That would mean 6+ sets of tires a year for me.
I find no issues with the handling on Michelin PR tires until the very end of their life, at which point they start resisting turn in, but that's usually around the 10,000 mi (16,000 km) point for me. That makes it 2+ sets of tires for me a season.
If I only rode 2500 miles a year, tire choice would be irrelevant. They would rot before they were worn out.
I find no issues with the handling on Michelin PR tires until the very end of their life, at which point they start resisting turn in, but that's usually around the 10,000 mi (16,000 km) point for me. That makes it 2+ sets of tires for me a season.
If I only rode 2500 miles a year, tire choice would be irrelevant. They would rot before they were worn out.
