LED Flasher Relay

[Lord Popgun]

Go, did you mean pulse width modulated?

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Go, did you mean pulse width modulated?

Yes. I wasn't allowed to correct it. I think another member used the correct term as well, possibly in another thread.

Thx Lord!

 

[Lord Popgun]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.

 

[hardylt_imp]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.
It's not a bad idea. However, since it is almost a new bike (<1000 miles) I would hope the relay isn't already failing. Plus, the stock signals had no such flicker. What I suspect is more an issue with the LED's, not being designed to work at two different illumination levels, running and flashing. I get the sense these particular signals just have two states--flashing and off. But I also have a very limited understanding of LED's so I'm not sure.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Hardy, did you check your PM? Let me know if you want a diagram.

 

[hardylt_imp]

Hardy, did you check your PM? Let me know if you want a diagram.

Just saw it. Much appreciated!

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.
It's not a bad idea. However, since it is almost a new bike (<1000 miles) I would hope the relay isn't already failing. Plus, the stock signals had no such flicker. What I suspect is more an issue with the LED's, not being designed to work at two different illumination levels, running and flashing. I get the sense these particular signals just have two states--flashing and off. But I also have a very limited understanding of LED's so I'm not sure.

RE relay: Moisture getting inside the relay (if traditional and not solid state) can happen while the device sits in a warehouse before assembled onto the CB1100 subsystem. This could, for example, oxidize the relay contacts.

RE LEDs: This could be a subsystem (your schematic diagram should reveal) that has a small processor that controls the mode of operation of the LED arrays. The logic is probably fine. It is the driver that could be having a bad experience. Maybe a marginal ground connection?

 

[hardylt_imp]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.
It's not a bad idea. However, since it is almost a new bike (<1000 miles) I would hope the relay isn't already failing. Plus, the stock signals had no such flicker. What I suspect is more an issue with the LED's, not being designed to work at two different illumination levels, running and flashing. I get the sense these particular signals just have two states--flashing and off. But I also have a very limited understanding of LED's so I'm not sure.

RE relay: Moisture getting inside the relay (if traditional and not solid state) can happen while the device sits in a warehouse before assembled onto the CB1100 subsystem. This could, for example, oxidize the relay contacts.

RE LEDs: This could be a subsystem (your schematic diagram should reveal) that has a small processor that controls the mode of operation of the LED arrays. The logic is probably fine. It is the driver that could be having a bad experience. Maybe a marginal ground connection?

RE relay: Moisture getting inside the relay (if traditional and not solid state) can happen while the device sits in a warehouse before assembled onto the CB1100 subsystem. This could, for example, oxidize the relay contacts.

RE LEDs: This could be a subsystem (your schematic diagram should reveal) that has a small processor that controls the mode of operation of the LED arrays. The logic is probably fine. It is the driver that could be having a bad experience. Maybe a marginal ground connection?
Maybe! This is the part where I am in over my head. I'll be checking my ground connections. But I have an LED relay from POSH coming in the mail now, plug and play with the stock connectors. We'll see if that does the trick. Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

LOL, I was thinking Hardy looked up PCM and is wondering what the heck it has to do with LEDs

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.

Yeah, I still grapple with autofill and PCM is definitely wrong. Maybe if the CB1100 could transmit data or music - then heh, yeah.

In any case, looking at the later posts, it is not unreasonable to look at a weakly held relay too. I have seen relays "weaken", maybe because of premature failure, though seldom for sealed units.
It's not a bad idea. However, since it is almost a new bike (<1000 miles) I would hope the relay isn't already failing. Plus, the stock signals had no such flicker. What I suspect is more an issue with the LED's, not being designed to work at two different illumination levels, running and flashing. I get the sense these particular signals just have two states--flashing and off. But I also have a very limited understanding of LED's so I'm not sure.

RE relay: Moisture getting inside the relay (if traditional and not solid state) can happen while the device sits in a warehouse before assembled onto the CB1100 subsystem. This could, for example, oxidize the relay contacts.

RE LEDs: This could be a subsystem (your schematic diagram should reveal) that has a small processor that controls the mode of operation of the LED arrays. The logic is probably fine. It is the driver that could be having a bad experience. Maybe a marginal ground connection?

RE relay: Moisture getting inside the relay (if traditional and not solid state) can happen while the device sits in a warehouse before assembled onto the CB1100 subsystem. This could, for example, oxidize the relay contacts.

RE LEDs: This could be a subsystem (your schematic diagram should reveal) that has a small processor that controls the mode of operation of the LED arrays. The logic is probably fine. It is the driver that could be having a bad experience. Maybe a marginal ground connection?
Maybe! This is the part where I am in over my head. I'll be checking my ground connections. But I have an LED relay from POSH coming in the mail now, plug and play with the stock connectors. We'll see if that does the trick. Thanks for the help thus far.

Good luck. Keep the "old" relay - if it is at fault. Many times they can be salvaged with a little electrical contact cleaner so long the coils are still healthy and used as a spare.

 

[FLYTYM_imp]

About 3 weeks ago I ordered the correct LED relay from Webike,hopefully it doesn't give me any grief.

 

[hardylt_imp]

About 3 weeks ago I ordered the correct LED relay from Webike,hopefully it doesn't give me any grief.

Mine actually just showed up today. Pricy little thing eh. I might get to installing this weekend...if I do I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[hardylt_imp]

About 3 weeks ago I ordered the correct LED relay from Webike,hopefully it doesn't give me any grief.

Okay, I installed it--I have good news and bad news. The good news is it effectively solved the hyper flash issue on all four turn signals. No need for resistors! The hazards function also still works fine. All good on that front.

The bad news (and it may only be bad news for me and these particular LED signals I bought) is now both my front signals flicker faintly at all times, except when the blinker is activated, at which point they function normally. My rear signals--another identical pair of the same kind--have no such problem. This confirms my suspicion that the running light voltage being sent to the front signals is causing the flickering. So my new question, perhaps the question I should have started with is:

Does anyone out there know how in the world you can remove the running light function of our front turn signals?? As far as I understand so far, that is a command sent somehow from within the relay, and I am way out of my depth at that point. It must use the same positive wire going to each signal since there is only one.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Still sounds like not enough load current is being drawn to suppress the flicker. Maybe consider just a dummy parallel load resistor on the front circuit? (not sure what value it should be, but experiment)

 

[Houtman_imp]

All this is a good reason that I leave my flashers stock , indiscreet flashing can get you arrested....

 

[Lord Popgun]

Hardy, maybe what Gold said.

As far as disconnection something:

If you look at the wiring diagram, you will see that both signals (concentrate on the front signals) have 2 wires. The green wire on both signals is connected directly to chassis ground. The other wire on each bulb is from the Turn Signal Position Relay. A separate wire for each bulb and they are not connected together. In the US, DOT requires the front signals to be on all the time as running lights so the relay outputs 12v constantly on both wires. When you select a turn signal, the relay interrupts the 12v on the wire for that bulb. In other words it turns the 12v on and off and thus the bulb flashes. I don’t see any real way of eliminating the running lights and still have turn signals as only one wire does both functions for one bulb and the other wire for the other bulb.

 

[Tev62]

My indicators acted as running lights on my UK/Ireland spec 2016 Africa Twin, I liked it a lot. I was surprised that my 2017MY CB1100EX did not have the same, they act as indicators only. If someone lets me know where the relay for the indicators are I can look at it and see if it is different?

 

[hardylt_imp]

My indicators acted as running lights on my UK/Ireland spec 2016 Africa Twin, I liked it a lot. I was surprised that my 2017MY CB1100EX did not have the same, they act as indicators only. If someone lets me know where the relay for the indicators are I can look at it and see if it is different?

If it's like my 2014 model, it's directly under the gas cap and you have to remove the gas tank to access it. It is only a few steps to remove but I had a pretty tough time with the so-called "quick disconnect" fitting on a fuel line under the tank. Proceed at your own risk.

Hardy, maybe what Gold said.

As far as disconnection something:

If you look at the wiring diagram, you will see that both signals (concentrate on the front signals) have 2 wires. The green wire on both signals is connected directly to chassis ground. The other wire on each bulb is from the Turn Signal Position Relay. A separate wire for each bulb and they are not connected together. In the US, DOT requires the front signals to be on all the time as running lights so the relay outputs 12v constantly on both wires. When you select a turn signal, the relay interrupts the 12v on the wire for that bulb. In other words it turns the 12v on and off and thus the bulb flashes. I don’t see any real way of eliminating the running lights and still have turn signals as only one wire does both functions for one bulb and the other wire for the other bulb.

I think you may have just lit a lightbulb in my understanding of this issue. I've been under the impression that the running light function comes from a lesser current being sent from the relay at all times, and then the flashing function came from a greater current being flicked on and off by the relay.

But what you're saying is it only has one power level at all times, and the flashing function is just the relay flicking that on and off. WOW that makes more sense. I wish I had paid more attention to the stock signals before I removed them, that probably would have been obvious.

So I think I may have been asking the wrong questions. According to Gold I may need to add resistance to the front signals so they stay completely off? Even though the POSH relay solved the hyper flash issue? I assumed LED relays work independent of resistance/load, but I may be wrong about that.

Still sounds like not enough load current is being drawn to suppress the flicker. Maybe consider just a dummy parallel load resistor on the front circuit? (not sure what value it should be, but experiment)

Could I solicit you for a simple ELI5 explanation of this?(Explain like I'm 5...)

Since I installed the POSH relay meant for LED's, I thought it would work independently of load to solve the hyper flash issue. I'm not sure if this helps, but their description of it includes this bit: "Posh face has developed a blinker relay with the same position function as the OEM to support LED blinkers and SmallWatt blinkers and a wattage of up to 40W (total).."

But you're saying I need to increase the load resistance so that the light stays completely off?

 

[Lord Popgun]

Tev, your relay assm. is different, although maybe only internally. Some countries do not have the running light feature. This has come up before but it has been a long while.

Most likely the relay is a solid state device, but I have never cut one open.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

HardyIt: Ah, solid state relay targeting LED loads? Then I currently can't offer another explanation.

Maybe consider slightly increasing the load though just to see if the behavior changes? Could reveal a clue. If the limit is up to 40W, then pay attention to that. Not sure if the solid state device will go into self-protection mode or not until "reset" (I really don't know).