Knocking noises; vibrations in the handlebar; oil sipping at valve lid gasket

[TheLegend]

[attachment=276][attachment=277][attachment=278]
Hi guys, 
new here, old hand in moto, I own recently a 2017 Honda CB 1100 RS(now 10.000 km) I ride it a little and I have important issues as follows:
- Knockings under the front valve lid(front right) only after the engine is hot.(camshaft, valve timing, cam chain???)
- strong vibrations in the handle bar(high pitch) after 3,200-5.000 rpm doesn't matter the gear, speed or if I rev' it on stand. I check and all the nuts are tightened OK, vibrations come obviously from the engine. I've used first time AmsOil 10w40, then I change it to OEM Honda 10w30-MA, I've changed the sparks too and... nothing. 
- sipping oil from the valve cover gasket, but this is a common fail as I've noticed to many air-cooled Honda.

I need your expertise and experience to find what is to be repaired(what's the cause), those issues are driving me Crazy for such a "young" moto with such big problems. I've visit some mechanics(even at Honda) and they didn't find/guess the real problem, they raise the shoulders. Did you encounter such things? Thank you!

 

[rdprdp01]

Good morning. We have great tuners and mechanics on the Forum. I am certain we can help you identify root causes.

Here are a couple of areas I encourage you to investigate.

Wheels which are not balanced or tires which are out-of-round or under-inflated can cause the vibration you described in your post.

Incorrect bar weights and worn suspension components can also be a contributing factor to vibrations reaching your hands on the handlebar.

Incorrect torque settings for tightened bolts (too tight or too loose) can also cause stress that can lead to vibrations.

I recall reading about a balancer backlash adjustment that may be relevant for the knocking noise. Check out this Thread and consider searching for others:


The CB1100 Community Forum


Peterbaron, pdedse, and many others are better tuners than me. I am sure they can augment or correct my post when they have some time to consider the possible causes more thoughtfully than my off the cuff reactions.

Hope this helps. David

 

[max]

Hi Legend, not the first to notice this noise on the cb, it sounds like a dull clicking as best as i can describe.
Have mine for 70k and no difference in the noise, it's very minor and not a problem, i did adjust the balancer but found no improvement so see no need for you to try the same, just leave it at factory setting.

After adjusting my valves i have glued the gasket in the top valve cover with a continuous bead of contact adhesive which stopped the weeping ( from new ), in my case the bead was not continous and let some oil come out of the cover.

 

[TheLegend]

Good morning. We have great tuners and mechanics on the Forum. I am certain we can help you identify root causes.

Here are a couple of areas I encourage you to investigate.

Wheels which are not balanced or tires which are out-of-round or under-inflated can cause the vibration you described in your post.

Incorrect bar weights and worn suspension components can also be a contributing factor to vibrations reaching your hands on the handlebar.

Incorrect torque settings for tightened bolts (too tight or too loose) can also cause stress that can lead to vibrations.

I recall reading about a balancer backlash adjustment that may be relevant for the knocking noise. Check out this Thread and consider searching for others:


The CB1100 Community Forum


Peterbaron, pdedse, and many others are better tuners than me. I am sure they can augment or correct my post when they have some time to consider the possible causes more thoughtfully than my off the cuff reactions.

Hope this helps. David

Thank you David for your good intentions! 
For sure is not from wheels or so, the vibrations are still present even if I stay and rev' it over 3-4k rpm
Regarding the balancer, I did it(when hot), I heard the whining(counter clock) and then I play all the range(clockwise) but nothing significant to be noticed so, I came back to the factory point +1 notch right-hand. But the knocking is still there loud and clear(in idle) (
I've changed the oil from AmsOil 10-40 to Honda 10-30 but the same knocking. My mechanic suspects the noise is coming from the front camshaft witch can be loosened/not torqued well, but till we will open the lid we don't know

---

check balancer adjustment at rh side of motor.

Regarding the balancer, I did it(when hot), I heard the whining(counter clock) and then I play all the range(clockwise) but nothing significant to be noticed so, I came back to the factory point +1 notch right-hand. But the knocking is still there loud and clear(in idle) (

 

[rdprdp01]

[quote="TheLegend" pid='269041' dateline='1749244031']

Good morning. We have great tuners and mechanics on the Forum. I am certain we can help you identify root causes.

Here are a couple of areas I encourage you to investigate.

Wheels which are not balanced or tires which are out-of-round or under-inflated can cause the vibration you described in your post.

Incorrect bar weights and worn suspension components can also be a contributing factor to vibrations reaching your hands on the handlebar.

Incorrect torque settings for tightened bolts (too tight or too loose) can also cause stress that can lead to vibrations.

I recall reading about a balancer backlash adjustment that may be relevant for the knocking noise. Check out this Thread and consider searching for others:


The CB1100 Community Forum


Peterbaron, pdedse, and many others are better tuners than me. I am sure they can augment or correct my post when they have some time to consider the possible causes more thoughtfully than my off the cuff reactions.

Hope this helps. David

Thank you David for your good intensions! 
For sure is not from wheels or so, the vibrations are still present even if I stay and rev' it over 3-4k rpm
Regarding the balancer, I did it(when hot), I heard the whining(counter clock) and then I play all the range(clockwise) but nothing significant to be noticed so, I came back to the factory point +1 notch right-hand. But the knocking is still there loud and clear(in idle) (
I've changed the oil from AmsOil 10-40 to Honda 10-30 but the same knocking. My mechanic suspects the noise is coming from the front camshaft witch can be loosened/not torqued well, but till we will open the lid we don't know

---

check balancer adjustment at rh side of motor.

Regarding the balancer, I did it(when hot), I heard the whining(counter clock) and then I play all the range(clockwise) but nothing significant to be noticed so, I came back to the factory point +1 notch right-hand. But the knocking is still there loud and clear(in idle) (
[/QUOTE]

Copy that. You will win this war. Have faith and please continue to share the details. We all may end up on this Field in time.

Have a great weekend. David

 

[Cormanus]

Vibration in the bars is a long-standing gripe. It's a product of the engine and some feel it worse than others. Use search and see what else you can find out, but here's one relevant thread The CB1100 Community Forum

 

[pdedse]

...Peterbaron, pdedse, and many others are better tuners than me. I am sure they can augment or correct my post when they have some time to consider the possible causes more thoughtfully than my off the cuff reactions.

Hope this helps. David

rdprdp01, you must have me confused with someone else.  I have zero tuner experience except with simple carb issues on KLR650s and DR650s.

Wait...did you ask me to be a moderator because of my mechanical (meaning, lack thereof) skills?  : O  

Do you want your money back?

 

[peterbaron]

.........
........ I own recently a 2017 Honda CB 1100 RS(now 10.000 km) I ride it a little and I have important issues as follows:
- Knockings under the front valve lid(front right) only after the engine is hot.(camshaft, valve timing, cam chain???) -
** will not address this issue due to lacking supporting evidence, discription is not enough, and I don't like guessing.....
Use mechanic stetoscope or a screwdriver to pinpoint , check and compare ex and in cams, left and right corners
- strong vibrations in the handle bar(high pitch) after 3,200-5.000 rpm doesn't matter the gear, speed or if I rev' it on stand. I check and all the nuts are tightened OK, vibrations come obviously from the engine. I've used first time AmsOil 10w40, then I change it to OEM Honda 10w30-MA, I've changed the sparks too and... nothing -
** you are wasting time and money by switching oil grade from 10w40 to 10w30 and replacing spark plugs to address this issue.
I always use 10W40 synthetic due to hot summer here and long distance rides. Both oil grades are ok for our CBs as per manufacture.
Testing engine for vibration in N & center stand & 3,000-5,000 rpm may have different results than testing when ridden and under load. Also, the OEM mirrors and  handle bar weight B/part #9 and end weight/part #10 are part of anti-vibration tool, check if you have all these
https://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5907904187a8660d54fac370/handlebar-top-bridge , as a referance/you have RS
I had 2013/5 speed and while riding this vibration was noticable, normlity and I did nothing to correct it. Sold the bike at 56,000 kms.
Then I had 2014/6 speed and the vibration was less than 2013 model. Also left it alone as normal characteristic for this bike. Sold the bike this May with 134,000 kms. 
Now I have 2014 DLX/6 speed and the vibration is very minimal, and again I will not try to correct it.
All my CBs had proper balancer adjustment.
All CB1100 have the same powerplant, 2010-2013 were 5 speed and from 2014 up were 6 speed, some exeptions apply.
- sipping oil from the valve cover gasket, but this is a common fail as I've noticed to all air-cooled Honda.  
** this is not true.
My '13 std had a little seepage, '14 was bone dry, my '14 DLX had a very little seepage and was fixed by inserting drain plug washer onder one cam cover bolt, do not overtighten it, you may strip the thread
Use this thread to address your leak: Slight Oil Leak
.
Some hepful links:
Should I adjust my crank balancer?
Handlebar Grips - eliminate the 'buzz'
Handle bar vibration
Buzzing sound on startup and slow return to idle?
Ticking / clicking sound after oil change
Cam chain rattles when cold
Buzz Killl?
Unhealthy Engine Knock / Noise
Click/Knock
............

 

[Wisedrum]

My 2013 CB has run over 81.000km and doesn't leak oil. So, not all aircooled Hondas leak oil.

 

[TheLegend]

.........
........ I own recently a 2017 Honda CB 1100 RS(now 10.000 km) I ride it a little and I have important issues as follows:
- Knockings under the front valve lid(front right) only after the engine is hot.(camshaft, valve timing, cam chain???) -
** will not address this issue due to lacking supporting evidence, discription is not enough, and I don't like guessing.....
Use mechanic stetoscope or a screwdriver to pinpoint , check and compare ex and in cams, left and right corners
- strong vibrations in the handle bar(high pitch) after 3,200-5.000 rpm doesn't matter the gear, speed or if I rev' it on stand. I check and all the nuts are tightened OK, vibrations come obviously from the engine. I've used first time AmsOil 10w40, then I change it to OEM Honda 10w30-MA, I've changed the sparks too and... nothing -
** you are wasting time and money by switching oil grade from 10w40 to 10w30 and replacing spark plugs to address this issue.
I always use 10W40 synthetic due to hot summer here and long distance rides. Both oil grades are ok for our CBs as per manufacture.
Testing engine for vibration in N & center stand & 3,000-5,000 rpm may have different results than testing when ridden and under load. Also, the OEM mirrors and  handle bar weight B/part #9 and end weight/part #10 are part of anti-vibration tool, check if you have all these
https://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5907904187a8660d54fac370/handlebar-top-bridge , as a referance/you have RS
I had 2013/5 speed and while riding this vibration was noticable, normlity and I did nothing to correct it. Sold the bike at 56,000 kms.
Then I had 2014/6 speed and the vibration was less than 2013 model. Also left it alone as normal characteristic for this bike. Sold the bike this May with 134,000 kms. 
Now I have 2014 DLX/6 speed and the vibration is very minimal, and again I will not try to correct it.
All my CBs had proper balancer adjustment.
All CB1100 have the same powerplant, 2010-2013 were 5 speed and from 2014 up were 6 speed, some exeptions apply.
- sipping oil from the valve cover gasket, but this is a common fail as I've noticed to all air-cooled Honda.  
** this is not true.
My '13 std had a little seepage, '14 was bone dry, my '14 DLX had a very little seepage and was fixed by inserting drain plug washer onder one cam cover bolt, do not overtighten it, you may strip the thread
Use this thread to address your leak: Slight Oil Leak
.
Some hepful links:
Should I adjust my crank balancer?
Handlebar Grips - eliminate the 'buzz'
Handle bar vibration
Buzzing sound on startup and slow return to idle?
Ticking / clicking sound after oil change
Cam chain rattles when cold
Buzz Killl?
Unhealthy Engine Knock / Noise
Click/Knock
............

 I will try to make a short video maybe the knocking thing will make more sense to what I mean. The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best; but till I go to the mechanic to open the lid to see what's inside, things are uncertain. Hate to open an engine so young, it seems I have bad luck considering that I'm the only one having this problems!  Even the Japs have also decreased quality(chrome, welding, cables wrapping, plastics).
 Regarding the handle vibrations, I had several bikes, please believe me, is uncommon, not supportable after 3k rpm, even the dash and headlight is rattling sometimes. All the stuff, handle, mirrors and weights are factory OEM, only small 2 cm risers SW-Motech well torqued. Thank you for help!

 

[rdprdp01]

[quote="TheLegend" pid='269071' dateline='1749308432']

.........
........ I own recently a 2017 Honda CB 1100 RS(now 10.000 km) I ride it a little and I have important issues as follows:
- Knockings under the front valve lid(front right) only after the engine is hot.(camshaft, valve timing, cam chain???) -
** will not address this issue due to lacking supporting evidence, discription is not enough, and I don't like guessing.....
Use mechanic stetoscope or a screwdriver to pinpoint , check and compare ex and in cams, left and right corners
- strong vibrations in the handle bar(high pitch) after 3,200-5.000 rpm doesn't matter the gear, speed or if I rev' it on stand. I check and all the nuts are tightened OK, vibrations come obviously from the engine. I've used first time AmsOil 10w40, then I change it to OEM Honda 10w30-MA, I've changed the sparks too and... nothing -
** you are wasting time and money by switching oil grade from 10w40 to 10w30 and replacing spark plugs to address this issue.
I always use 10W40 synthetic due to hot summer here and long distance rides. Both oil grades are ok for our CBs as per manufacture.
Testing engine for vibration in N & center stand & 3,000-5,000 rpm may have different results than testing when ridden and under load. Also, the OEM mirrors and  handle bar weight B/part #9 and end weight/part #10 are part of anti-vibration tool, check if you have all these
https://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5907904187a8660d54fac370/handlebar-top-bridge , as a referance/you have RS
I had 2013/5 speed and while riding this vibration was noticable, normlity and I did nothing to correct it. Sold the bike at 56,000 kms.
Then I had 2014/6 speed and the vibration was less than 2013 model. Also left it alone as normal characteristic for this bike. Sold the bike this May with 134,000 kms. 
Now I have 2014 DLX/6 speed and the vibration is very minimal, and again I will not try to correct it.
All my CBs had proper balancer adjustment.
All CB1100 have the same powerplant, 2010-2013 were 5 speed and from 2014 up were 6 speed, some exeptions apply.
- sipping oil from the valve cover gasket, but this is a common fail as I've noticed to all air-cooled Honda.  
** this is not true.
My '13 std had a little seepage, '14 was bone dry, my '14 DLX had a very little seepage and was fixed by inserting drain plug washer onder one cam cover bolt, do not overtighten it, you may strip the thread
Use this thread to address your leak: Slight Oil Leak
.
Some hepful links:
Should I adjust my crank balancer?
Handlebar Grips - eliminate the 'buzz'
Handle bar vibration
Buzzing sound on startup and slow return to idle?
Ticking / clicking sound after oil change
Cam chain rattles when cold
Buzz Killl?
Unhealthy Engine Knock / Noise
Click/Knock
............

 I will try to make a short video maybe the knocking thing will make more sense to what I mean. The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best; but till I go to the mechanic to open the lid to see what's inside, things are uncertain. Hate to open an engine so young, it seems I have bad luck considering that I'm the only one having this problems!  Even the Japs have also decreased quality(chrome, welding, cables wrapping, plastics).
 Regarding the handle vibrations, I had several bikes, please believe me, is uncommon, not supportable after 3k rpm, even the dash and headlight is rattling sometimes. All the stuff, handle, mirrors and weights are factory OEM, only small 2 cm risers SW-Motech well torqued. Thank you for help!
[/QUOTE]

I am glad that everyone is working together on this! Please note that the links referenced on the prior site are also available on this site. If you try to access s link from cb1100forum.com and it gives you an error, you can search for Crank Balancer and find the copied Thread.

I am tracking this Thread with great enthusiasm and look forward to seeing where it eventually lands.

David

 

[peterbaron]

The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best;

..... what is the "speed" of that noise compared to the engine rpm while idling?
* if it's significantly slower or 2x slower than the engine speed it might indicate cam, valve clearance... in a 4 stroke, the engine turns twice/720* while the cam turns once/360*  to complete 4 stroke cycle, so the ratio is 2:1
* did you buy it from the original owner, auction, import from a different country...?
* did you test this RS prior purchesing

 

[TheLegend]

The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best;

..... what is the "speed" of that noise compared to the engine rpm while idling?
* if it's significantly slower or 2x slower than the engine speed it might indicate cam, valve clearance... in a 4 stroke, the engine turns twice/720* while the cam turns once/360*  to complete 4 stroke cycle, so the ratio is 2:1
* did you buy it from the original owner, auction, import from a different country...?
* did you test this RS prior purchesing

The noise is heard clearly only on idle, when I rev'it the general engine noise covers the knocking. It looks slower then revs, it looks to me like a camshaft not a valve, the knock is thick and loud enough, soon I will make a movie. 
The bike was bought from Germany-EU direct from the owner, the service card is updated with full services until 8.800 km now I have 10.000 km; the bike is tip-top no signs of drop or other incidents; I bought it in Dec so... no rides, but I didn't recall noises or vibrations at the begining. After I change the oil(AmsOil 10w40) and I install the Givi windshield I've noticed some vibrations and since 2 months that knocking.  Thank you for the support!

---

was the bike bought new or used? if used wonder of it got dropped or something else happened.  I'll be honest, the quality of the cb Is pretty top notch overall.  except the frame welds everything is pretty spot on

Used, direct from owner with service book full maintenance till 8.800 now is 10.000 km; No sign of drop or accident, is Tip-Top really.
That's why I am so upset, is almost new, in a very good shape, I love this bike it's the younger sister of Sevenfifty wich I was very satisfied, I knew it's a very reliable bike but...

---

.........
........ I own recently a 2017 Honda CB 1100 RS(now 10.000 km) I ride it a little and I have important issues as follows:
- Knockings under the front valve lid(front right) only after the engine is hot.(camshaft, valve timing, cam chain???) -
** will not address this issue due to lacking supporting evidence, discription is not enough, and I don't like guessing.....
Use mechanic stetoscope or a screwdriver to pinpoint , check and compare ex and in cams, left and right corners
- strong vibrations in the handle bar(high pitch) after 3,200-5.000 rpm doesn't matter the gear, speed or if I rev' it on stand. I check and all the nuts are tightened OK, vibrations come obviously from the engine. I've used first time AmsOil 10w40, then I change it to OEM Honda 10w30-MA, I've changed the sparks too and... nothing -
** you are wasting time and money by switching oil grade from 10w40 to 10w30 and replacing spark plugs to address this issue.
I always use 10W40 synthetic due to hot summer here and long distance rides. Both oil grades are ok for our CBs as per manufacture.
Testing engine for vibration in N & center stand & 3,000-5,000 rpm may have different results than testing when ridden and under load. Also, the OEM mirrors and  handle bar weight B/part #9 and end weight/part #10 are part of anti-vibration tool, check if you have all these
https://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5907904187a8660d54fac370/handlebar-top-bridge , as a referance/you have RS
I had 2013/5 speed and while riding this vibration was noticable, normlity and I did nothing to correct it. Sold the bike at 56,000 kms.
Then I had 2014/6 speed and the vibration was less than 2013 model. Also left it alone as normal characteristic for this bike. Sold the bike this May with 134,000 kms. 
Now I have 2014 DLX/6 speed and the vibration is very minimal, and again I will not try to correct it.
All my CBs had proper balancer adjustment.
All CB1100 have the same powerplant, 2010-2013 were 5 speed and from 2014 up were 6 speed, some exeptions apply.
- sipping oil from the valve cover gasket, but this is a common fail as I've noticed to all air-cooled Honda.  
** this is not true.
My '13 std had a little seepage, '14 was bone dry, my '14 DLX had a very little seepage and was fixed by inserting drain plug washer onder one cam cover bolt, do not overtighten it, you may strip the thread
Use this thread to address your leak: Slight Oil Leak
.
Some hepful links:
Should I adjust my crank balancer?
Handlebar Grips - eliminate the 'buzz'
Handle bar vibration
Buzzing sound on startup and slow return to idle?
Ticking / clicking sound after oil change
Cam chain rattles when cold
Buzz Killl?
Unhealthy Engine Knock / Noise
Click/Knock
............

 I will try to make a short video maybe the knocking thing will make more sense to what I mean. The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best; but till I go to the mechanic to open the lid to see what's inside, things are uncertain. Hate to open an engine so young, it seems I have bad luck considering that I'm the only one having this problems!  Even the Japs have also decreased quality(chrome, welding, cables wrapping, plastics).
 Regarding the handle vibrations, I had several bikes, please believe me, is uncommon, not supportable after 3k rpm, even the dash and headlight is rattling sometimes. All the stuff, handle, mirrors and weights are factory OEM, only small 2 cm risers SW-Motech well torqued. Thank you for help!

I am glad that everyone is working together on this! Please note that the links referenced on the prior site are also available on this site. If you try to access s link from cb1100forum.com and it gives you an error, you can search for Crank Balancer and find the copied Thread.

I am tracking this Thread with great enthusiasm and look forward to seeing where it eventually lands.

David

Thank you very much David, thank you all for the suport!

 

[peterbaron]

just to mention this post #3 - it addresses the new noise...it might be your issue????, check

Slight Oil Leak

 

[TheLegend]

The knocking is coming mainly from front right cyl head cover, after the engine is hot, in idle sounds/heard best;

..... what is the "speed" of that noise compared to the engine rpm while idling?
* if it's significantly slower or 2x slower than the engine speed it might indicate cam, valve clearance... in a 4 stroke, the engine turns twice/720* while the cam turns once/360*  to complete 4 stroke cycle, so the ratio is 2:1
* did you buy it from the original owner, auction, import from a different country...?
* did you test this RS prior purchesing

This is a youtube link that I made with the knocking sound, hope it works:

 

[Cormanus]

It works.

 

[Cormanus]

TheLegend, did you not say you were in Bucharest? Surely there's a major Honda dealer there who could help you diagnose the problem?

 

[TheLegend]

TheLegend, did you not say you were in Bucharest? Surely there's a major Honda dealer there who could help you diagnose the problem?

In Bucharest there are only dealers with a service, not a Honda Official; I was at one of them(biggest), they make a so called diagnose where nothing was seen, e.g. they see only an injector out of four and no other issues... it seems that they do not have the OEM diagnose soft/tester; they mention too that they didn't know this kind of model so, they are out of the problem. Sadly but in Romania isn't yet an Oficial Dealer with all the soft knowhow and trained mechanics for this. I can't let them make some kind of training on my bike!

 

[Cormanus]

OK. Not a good idea to be a guinea pig.

 

[peterbaron]

OK. Not a good idea to be a guinea pig.

Agreed