Kawasaki Z900RS

[Bheezy27403_imp]

That's funny Ferret. Here in NC I see many air cooled and water cooled Triumphs. I have only ever seen 1 CB. It was a 13 just like mine. So my perception is contrary to yours.

 

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

 

[the Ferret]

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

 

[Acrobat_imp]

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.

It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.

Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

 

[Mscb1100_imp]

Ulve,

I find a lot of flaws in your logic based upon my experience in banking, finance and retail in regards to this new 900 you presume Honda is/will one day bring to market when all the CB1100’s are sold.
The money Honda spent developing and manufacturing those bikes has been spent and accounted for.
It is illogical that Honda is forgoing the sales/profits (expected over the next decade by millennials, your words) to languish while the current models wait to be sold, while a bike “bike that will sell itself “ sits on the drawing board.
Each day a current CB1100 remains unsold, Honda is losing interest on the manufacturing cost of a bike sitting in a warehouse. It would be much better financial sense to sell those bikes, and use that money to help fund production and advertising cost of a “bike that will sell itself”.
For example, show up at any car or cycle dealer after lunch time on the last business day of the month and you can negotiate a better deal, because another month of floor plan charges start the next day and the dealer wants as many sales for the current month as possible.

Smarter people than both of us have kept Honda in business for a looong time!

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

On today's ride I met a guy named Rocky. He was riding a Z900. About my age. Bought it last year. Likes it well enough, but said he wished he had waited a year and got the RS. He really liked the CB but not the 17 model. CB drew a big crowd of admirers at the rest stop today. One guy was snapping cell phone pics and another had to tell me about his CB 350F he used to have. lol

I was also confused by this post.

You said Rocky was on a Z900, that would be like my supernaked Z900. Then you said he wished he'd waited to get the RS.

I thought you meant he wished he'd waited to get the Z900RS instead of the Z900.

Can you clear this up? Did he mean he wished he'd purchased a CB1100RS instead of the Z900 Supernaked, or that he wished he'd waited to buy a Z900RS? That was my impression, that he wished he'd gotten the retro instead of the supernaked.

 

[Mscb1100_imp]

Ulve
Wow
Last 2 lines of your last post summarized my entire post:clap:

 

[flynrider]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.

It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.

Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

I hope that you're right about this, but I have my doubts.

With Euro 5 regs looming in 2020, it seems unlikely that Honda is going to invest the R&D yen into an air cooled powerplant that will be even more marginalized than the CB1100.

I suspect that if Honda is going to have an entry in the retro-standard class in '20 and beyond, it'll be water cooled. I'd expect something like the T120 or Z900RS, but with somewhat more attention to retro details in true Honda fashion.

 

[the Ferret]

On today's ride I met a guy named Rocky. He was riding a Z900. About my age. Bought it last year. Likes it well enough, but said he wished he had waited a year and got the RS. He really liked the CB but not the 17 model. CB drew a big crowd of admirers at the rest stop today. One guy was snapping cell phone pics and another had to tell me about his CB 350F he used to have. lol

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Think it's pretty clear, but I will reiterate

His name was Rocky..last year he bought a Z900 (naked Kawasaki 900 4 cyl). He likes it well enough. But now that Kawasaki has introduced the Z900RS (retro styled Kawasaki 900 4 cyl), he wished he had waited a year and bought it instead.

further ....

He liked my CB1100 (retro Honda 1100 4 cyl), but did not like the 2017 version of the CB 1100 (slightly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl). There was no mention of the not available in the U.S. CB1100RS (decidedly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl) by either of us.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Ulve,

I find a lot of flaws in your logic based upon my experience in banking, finance and retail in regards to this new 900 you presume Honda is/will one day bring to market when all the CB1100’s are sold.
The money Honda spent developing and manufacturing those bikes has been spent and accounted for.
It is illogical that Honda is forgoing the sales/profits (expected over the next decade by millennials, your words) to languish while the current models wait to be sold, while a bike “bike that will sell itself “ sits on the drawing board.
Each day a current CB1100 remains unsold, Honda is losing interest on the manufacturing cost of a bike sitting in a warehouse. It would be much better financial sense to sell those bikes, and use that money to help fund production and advertising cost of a “bike that will sell itself”.
For example, show up at any car or cycle dealer after lunch time on the last business day of the month and you can negotiate a better deal, because another month of floor plan charges start the next day and the dealer wants as many sales for the current month as possible.

Smarter people than both of us have kept Honda in business for a looong time!

What I was suggesting was that Honda will not bring any NEW 2018 or later CB1100 motorcycles into the United States. Of course it will continue to sell existing units until the supply is exhausted, and most likely the CB1100 will continue to be sold in other world markets for some years to come.

Perhaps many these days do not recall the huge glut of "non-current" Japanese motorcycles dumped on the market in the late 1980's at prices which would be absolutely unbelievable today. Thousands of unsold bikes from Honda, Yamaha, et. al. were available up to four YEARS after manufacture for about HALF the retail price.

For example (I was a salesman at the time, so I know of these things), I sold at least two brand-new CBX touring bikes, with the full fairing and saddlebags, for $2,400 each. There were dozens of these bikes shipped to our dealer and we sold them like hotcakes. And the beauty was, we received FULL COMMISSION on each sale, and did not have to discount the bike at all off the already incredibly low price. I made between $200-$400 per sale, enough to buy myself a brand-new VFR700F in 1986, the white one.

I also bought a non-current for myself, a 1982 Yamaha XT550, brand-new, for $1300, the same year.

So the manufacturers tend to overproduce, sometimes drastically, and drastic measures have to be taken to absorb the overproduction. That means lower prices and cutting production and sometimes discontinuing models in certain markets.

Obviously there is some issue with the CB1100 for 2018 in the USA as no MY2018 bike has been announced.

In the meanwhile, I leave this great image I just found (yes, Guth I thought of you!), in an article by Mitch Boehm, and a lovely quote by a true motorcycle journalist, Cook Neilson:



Cycle’s Cook Neilson summed it up pretty well: “The CBX,” he wrote, “rubs hard against the acceptable limits of mechanical intricacy and weight, and anyone with a pragmatic view would take issue with both the bike’s complexity and its total performance concept. But the Six was not built for pragmatists. It was built for romantics, for people with soft spots in their hearts for mechanical maximum expressions, for people whose specific reasons for motorcycling match the CBX’s specific reasons for being built. The CBX is an immensely flattering bike with perfect elegance and total class, and history will rank it with those rare and precious motorcycles which will never, ever be forgotten.”

One might even predict that about the CB1100.

 

[Capo]

I'm reasonably certain that the higher price tag for the RS is the reason Honda didn't bring it to America. Honda is already struggling to sell the best-looking (by a country mile) retro here, in large part because the $12,199 cost of admission combined with relatively modest spec-sheet numbers position the EX beyond the means of all but its most ardent admirers. Now they're faced with trying to sell a less purely beautiful, more expensive version of the same thing, only this version is marketed as a higher-performance alternative, even though it really isn't. Nevertheless, because they gave it Ohlins-look suspension, radial brakes, and lower bars, this bike will be pitted against higher-performance competitors like the Z900RS, the numerous R-Nine-T variants, a couple-few Triumphs, a smattering of Ducatis, and a few other classy-looking, sporty machines.

Lacking similar performance, the RS just isn't going to pan out for Honda, not in modern American showrooms, where UJMs historically go to die.

Instead, yep, they have the CB1000R ready to enter that particular fray, while the CB1100 EX holds down the classic-retro fort.

There's really just nothing in it for Honda, by bringing the RS here. The RS and EX would only cannibalize sales from each other, dividing an already very small niche market.

Now, what doesn't make any sense at all is Honda's decision to ditch both CB1100 models for the U.S. market in 2018. Pairing the EX or even the RS with the CB1000R seems like a no-brainer, since the CB1000R buyer isn't the CB1100 buyer. Those are two very different age groups/types of riders. There is no reason for Honda not to offer both the CB1000R and at least one of the CB1100 air-cooled retros.

It's really not that much money. Any competitor is at least that much or more. Even the Kawasaki is within $1000 or so. And seriously, while the Honda is not as powerful, it's just so much better-looking, and is dramatically more accurate as a sport-heritage or retro machine. You put that RS or EX next to the Z900RS, game over. As far as looks go, anyway. Both great bikes, but the essence, Honda has it.

You can't touch a Thruxton for less than $12K, nor even the lowly RNineT Pure. $12K puts it right in the game.

No, I just don't get it at all. It's really beginning to irritate me because I have no interest in the Z900RS at all, and even LESS interest in any European retro.

I would go for an EX if the CB1100RS was a no-show but I wanna wait and see.

It's really not that much money. Any competitor is at least that much or more. Even the Kawasaki is within $1000 or so. And seriously, while the Honda is not as powerful, it's just so much better-looking, and is dramatically more accurate as a sport-heritage or retro machine. You put that RS or EX next to the Z900RS, game over. As far as looks go, anyway. Both great bikes, but the essence, Honda has it.

You can't touch a Thruxton for less than $12K, nor even the lowly RNineT Pure. $12K puts it right in the game.

No, I just don't get it at all. It's really beginning to irritate me because I have no interest in the Z900RS at all, and even LESS interest in any European retro.

I would go for an EX if the CB1100RS was a no-show but I wanna wait and see.
Looks are subjective. If the Honda was considered broadly to be that much better looking, or with specs and performance that held up to its price, it would sell. It doesn’t. All the money, engineering and joy that Honda put into the bike has been undercut by zero marketing, few accessories, 50- 70 extra pounds, and tepid performance. And that’s from people who LOVE the bike!

Of course we here in the forum don’t really care, but the broader bike public have voted with their wallets. That being said, Honda could easily afford to keep the CB going, even at modest sales levels, if it chose to. I agree, they are looking for the new CB1000R as the main event in this space.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guth_imp]

I disagree with Ulvetanna.

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.

It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.

Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

As we've discussed in the past, the CB1100 really has no competition. The closest bikes out there are the likes of the Moto Guzzi V7, Royal Enfield Interceptor and the Harley Sportster. The CB1100 met all of the design criteria that Honda stated was their goal before it hit production.

As far as the "air-cooled mill for the 21st century" that you mentioned earlier goes, well that's the air-cooled mill that came in the CB1100 from the get go. This is why the engine still passes current emissions standards that hadn't even taken effect when the bike was originally released.

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.

It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.

Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

Eh, I'm not so convinced. Let's see just how many Z900RS' Kawasaki actually ends up selling (I've yet to see one in the wild around here). In fact, most of what I'm seeing on the local roads as far a retro or retro-styled bikes go are older Triumph Bonnevilles sold over the past decade. With the exception of those guys still drawn to the Triumphs, I actually think that it's possible that the retro thing has already started to have run it's course. I don't think that this means that the modern standard motorcycle has run it's course however.

I believe that this is where the Neo Sports Cafe concept (2018 CB1000R) enters the fray. The selling points will have much more to do with performance and build-quality than with pure-retro styling. It basically creates it's own genre of bike, much like the R nineT but with a bigger nod towards performance. I appreciate the new CB1000R for many of the same reasons that I appreciated the R nineT (and I still do in the case of that bike) in that it is it's own bike. Whether my guess is right or wrong, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Capo]

I was expecting Kawasaki's Z900RS to sell well but that was before I saw additional photos of the bike. It is an interesting gamble by Kawasaki. I suppose for some, the bike might compete directly with the Z900 on the showroom floor. But how many younger folks interested in the Z900 would be willing to shell out more for the retro looking Z900RS (are they even tempted by it at all)? Conversely, how many old dudes that claimed that the main failing of the CB1100 for example was a lack of performance would be willing to shell out the bucks for Z900RS instead given it's added performance and somewhat homely retro-styling? The fact that this bike could tempt Capo is interesting as he already owns a Thruxton R which as far as water-cooled retro-styled bikes go is a thing of beauty. Still, I couldn't help but notice that Capo only included the side-view shot of the Z900RS.

I also don't think that Honda is at all worried about the CB1100 RS making a dent in the sales of the upcoming CB1000R. The CB1000R definitely has it's own thing going and will stand on it's own both in terms of design and performance. The market for the CB1100 RS conversely would likely be very small. Most people that wanted a CB1100 had already obtained one by 2016. Whether discussing the current EX or RS, given the pricing of these bikes Honda is not going to be selling very many of either one. Those of us that own our CB1100 of choice should probably be grateful for what we already have at this point.

Oh, I’m not tempted by it. You can buy lightly used R9T’s now for $9k, if I were to get another retro to add to the fleet, I’d prob give one of those a shot.

I didn’t want to go up and snap pix of the Zed. The radiator / cap situation isn’t great, But the bike looks good, and my hunch is it will sell well.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

On today's ride I met a guy named Rocky. He was riding a Z900. About my age. Bought it last year. Likes it well enough, but said he wished he had waited a year and got the RS. He really liked the CB but not the 17 model. CB drew a big crowd of admirers at the rest stop today. One guy was snapping cell phone pics and another had to tell me about his CB 350F he used to have. lol

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Think it's pretty clear, but I will reiterate

His name was Rocky..last year he bought a Z900 (naked Kawasaki 900 4 cyl). He likes it well enough. But now that Kawasaki has introduced the Z900RS (retro styled Kawasaki 900 4 cyl), he wished he had waited a year and bought it instead.

further ....

He liked my CB1100 (retro Honda 1100 4 cyl), but did not like the 2017 version of the CB 1100 (slightly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl). There was no mention of the not available in the U.S. CB1100RS (decidedly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl) by either of us.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

CB 1100 A little History

Think it's pretty clear, but I will reiterate

His name was Rocky..last year he bought a Z900 (naked Kawasaki 900 4 cyl). He likes it well enough. But now that Kawasaki has introduced the Z900RS (retro styled Kawasaki 900 4 cyl), he wished he had waited a year and bought it instead.

further ....

He liked my CB1100 (retro Honda 1100 4 cyl), but did not like the 2017 version of the CB 1100 (slightly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl). There was no mention of the not available in the U.S. CB1100RS (decidedly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl) by either of us. That's just what I initially thought and wrote something to that effect in an earlier reply. But I do see why VLJ got a different impression. So it's all cleared up now, thank goodness. That was the most important thing I had to do all day, dang it. Well, along with trying to explain why Honda won't bring the CB1100 back but will bring in another CB of a different design, which no one will want anyway, but Honda will build just because Honda loves to thumb its nose at convention and tout its preeminence.

That's my answer to VLJ, that's why we have a CB1100, and that's why Honda will never abandon its roots in the inline four.

BMW is the same, why keep making that stupid boxer engine which was originally designed as an airplane motor? Can you imagine the hoops their engineers have to jump through? They do it because they are BMW and they can. And it does work reasonably well.

Ulve
Wow
Last 2 lines of your last post summarized my entire post:clap:

Now I am really confused. As long as everyone is happy, I am happy. In fact I try to stay happy even if everyone isn't happy.

However I am annoyed and not happy I can't buy a CB1100RS in America.:beerchug:

I'm reasonably certain that the higher price tag for the RS is the reason Honda didn't bring it to America. Honda is already struggling to sell the best-looking (by a country mile) retro here, in large part because the $12,199 cost of admission combined with relatively modest spec-sheet numbers position the EX beyond the means of all but its most ardent admirers. Now they're faced with trying to sell a less purely beautiful, more expensive version of the same thing, only this version is marketed as a higher-performance alternative, even though it really isn't. Nevertheless, because they gave it Ohlins-look suspension, radial brakes, and lower bars, this bike will be pitted against higher-performance competitors like the Z900RS, the numerous R-Nine-T variants, a couple-few Triumphs, a smattering of Ducatis, and a few other classy-looking, sporty machines.

Lacking similar performance, the RS just isn't going to pan out for Honda, not in modern American showrooms, where UJMs historically go to die.

Instead, yep, they have the CB1000R ready to enter that particular fray, while the CB1100 EX holds down the classic-retro fort.

There's really just nothing in it for Honda, by bringing the RS here. The RS and EX would only cannibalize sales from each other, dividing an already very small niche market.

Now, what doesn't make any sense at all is Honda's decision to ditch both CB1100 models for the U.S. market in 2018. Pairing the EX or even the RS with the CB1000R seems like a no-brainer, since the CB1000R buyer isn't the CB1100 buyer. Those are two very different age groups/types of riders. There is no reason for Honda not to offer both the CB1000R and at least one of the CB1100 air-cooled retros.

It's really not that much money. Any competitor is at least that much or more. Even the Kawasaki is within $1000 or so. And seriously, while the Honda is not as powerful, it's just so much better-looking, and is dramatically more accurate as a sport-heritage or retro machine. You put that RS or EX next to the Z900RS, game over. As far as looks go, anyway. Both great bikes, but the essence, Honda has it.

You can't touch a Thruxton for less than $12K, nor even the lowly RNineT Pure. $12K puts it right in the game.

No, I just don't get it at all. It's really beginning to irritate me because I have no interest in the Z900RS at all, and even LESS interest in any European retro.

I would go for an EX if the CB1100RS was a no-show but I wanna wait and see.

It's really not that much money. Any competitor is at least that much or more. Even the Kawasaki is within $1000 or so. And seriously, while the Honda is not as powerful, it's just so much better-looking, and is dramatically more accurate as a sport-heritage or retro machine. You put that RS or EX next to the Z900RS, game over. As far as looks go, anyway. Both great bikes, but the essence, Honda has it.

You can't touch a Thruxton for less than $12K, nor even the lowly RNineT Pure. $12K puts it right in the game.

No, I just don't get it at all. It's really beginning to irritate me because I have no interest in the Z900RS at all, and even LESS interest in any European retro.

I would go for an EX if the CB1100RS was a no-show but I wanna wait and see.
Looks are subjective. If the Honda was considered broadly to be that much better looking, or with specs and performance that held up to its price, it would sell. It doesn’t. All the money, engineering and joy that Honda put into the bike has been undercut by zero marketing, few accessories, 50- 70 extra pounds, and tepid performance. And that’s from people who LOVE the bike!

Of course we here in the forum don’t really care, but the broader bike public have voted with their wallets. That being said, Honda could easily afford to keep the CB going, even at modest sales levels, if it chose to. I agree, they are looking for the new CB1000R as the main event in this space.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just have to say, Capo just stated pretty much exactly my view on the subject. I oughta put that in my signature but the new one I just cooked up is so exceptionally pithy I can't bear to change it just yet. lol.

For 2018 the CB1000R will most definitely be the main event. It doesn't need any competition sitting next to it.

Some kind of CB will return, when America rates it. Even if the USA don't get another CB for a while, I speculate the rest of the world will see a new model within 2-3 years.

I just can't make a move on the bike until I

a) see the new CB1000R in person, and

b) get a chance to really look at the 2017 EX carefully

I don't need a test ride, even. I know it's going to be a great bike. I just don't know what else is coming quite yet.

 

[Guth_imp]

Ulve,

I find a lot of flaws in your logic based upon my experience in banking, finance and retail in regards to this new 900 you presume Honda is/will one day bring to market when all the CB1100’s are sold.
The money Honda spent developing and manufacturing those bikes has been spent and accounted for.
It is illogical that Honda is forgoing the sales/profits (expected over the next decade by millennials, your words) to languish while the current models wait to be sold, while a bike “bike that will sell itself “ sits on the drawing board.
Each day a current CB1100 remains unsold, Honda is losing interest on the manufacturing cost of a bike sitting in a warehouse. It would be much better financial sense to sell those bikes, and use that money to help fund production and advertising cost of a “bike that will sell itself”.
For example, show up at any car or cycle dealer after lunch time on the last business day of the month and you can negotiate a better deal, because another month of floor plan charges start the next day and the dealer wants as many sales for the current month as possible.

Smarter people than both of us have kept Honda in business for a looong time!

What I was suggesting was that Honda will not bring any NEW 2018 or later CB1100 motorcycles into the United States. Of course it will continue to sell existing units until the supply is exhausted, and most likely the CB1100 will continue to be sold in other world markets for some years to come.

Perhaps many these days do not recall the huge glut of "non-current" Japanese motorcycles dumped on the market in the late 1980's at prices which would be absolutely unbelievable today. Thousands of unsold bikes from Honda, Yamaha, et. al. were available up to four YEARS after manufacture for about HALF the retail price.

For example (I was a salesman at the time, so I know of these things), I sold at least two brand-new CBX touring bikes, with the full fairing and saddlebags, for $2,400 each. There were dozens of these bikes shipped to our dealer and we sold them like hotcakes. And the beauty was, we received FULL COMMISSION on each sale, and did not have to discount the bike at all off the already incredibly low price. I made between $200-$400 per sale, enough to buy myself a brand-new VFR700F in 1986, the white one.

I also bought a non-current for myself, a 1982 Yamaha XT550, brand-new, for $1300, the same year.

So the manufacturers tend to overproduce, sometimes drastically, and drastic measures have to be taken to absorb the overproduction. That means lower prices and cutting production and sometimes discontinuing models in certain markets.

Obviously there is some issue with the CB1100 for 2018 in the USA as no MY2018 bike has been announced.

In the meanwhile, I leave this great image I just found (yes, Guth I thought of you!), in an article by Mitch Boehm, and a lovely quote by a true motorcycle journalist, Cook Neilson:



Cycle’s Cook Neilson summed it up pretty well: “The CBX,” he wrote, “rubs hard against the acceptable limits of mechanical intricacy and weight, and anyone with a pragmatic view would take issue with both the bike’s complexity and its total performance concept. But the Six was not built for pragmatists. It was built for romantics, for people with soft spots in their hearts for mechanical maximum expressions, for people whose specific reasons for motorcycling match the CBX’s specific reasons for being built. The CBX is an immensely flattering bike with perfect elegance and total class, and history will rank it with those rare and precious motorcycles which will never, ever be forgotten.”

One might even predict that about the CB1100.

What I was suggesting was that Honda will not bring any NEW 2018 or later CB1100 motorcycles into the United States. Of course it will continue to sell existing units until the supply is exhausted, and most likely the CB1100 will continue to be sold in other world markets for some years to come.

Perhaps many these days do not recall the huge glut of "non-current" Japanese motorcycles dumped on the market in the late 1980's at prices which would be absolutely unbelievable today. Thousands of unsold bikes from Honda, Yamaha, et. al. were available up to four YEARS after manufacture for about HALF the retail price.

For example (I was a salesman at the time, so I know of these things), I sold at least two brand-new CBX touring bikes, with the full fairing and saddlebags, for $2,400 each. There were dozens of these bikes shipped to our dealer and we sold them like hotcakes. And the beauty was, we received FULL COMMISSION on each sale, and did not have to discount the bike at all off the already incredibly low price. I made between $200-$400 per sale, enough to buy myself a brand-new VFR700F in 1986, the white one.

I also bought a non-current for myself, a 1982 Yamaha XT550, brand-new, for $1300, the same year.

So the manufacturers tend to overproduce, sometimes drastically, and drastic measures have to be taken to absorb the overproduction. That means lower prices and cutting production and sometimes discontinuing models in certain markets.

Obviously there is some issue with the CB1100 for 2018 in the USA as no MY2018 bike has been announced.

In the meanwhile, I leave this great image I just found (yes, Guth I thought of you!), in [url=https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/1970s-motorcycles-hondas-six-cylinder-cbx#page-13]an article by Mitch Boehm, and a lovely quote by a true motorcycle journalist, Cook Neilson:



Cycle’s Cook Neilson summed it up pretty well: “The CBX,” he wrote, “rubs hard against the acceptable limits of mechanical intricacy and weight, and anyone with a pragmatic view would take issue with both the bike’s complexity and its total performance concept. But the Six was not built for pragmatists. It was built for romantics, for people with soft spots in their hearts for mechanical maximum expressions, for people whose specific reasons for motorcycling match the CBX’s specific reasons for being built. The CBX is an immensely flattering bike with perfect elegance and total class, and history will rank it with those rare and precious motorcycles which will never, ever be forgotten.”

One might even predict that about the CB1100.

Ulve,
In your original post in paragraph 5 you state Honda will allow the current supply of 1100 s to dry up before introducing a new model.
In your response to my post you state


What I was suggesting was that Honda will not bring any NEW 2018 or later CB1100 motorcycles into the United States.

If you disagree with me I can take it, but stand by what you post and don’t spin it.

For everyone's benefit, if I have in some way been vague, here's what I speculate:

Honda has been making the CB1100 for about ten years and has sold many worldwide. Not many in the USA, though. During that time Honda have developed plans for a new "heritage sport" motorcycle, using everything they've learned in manufacturing the CB1100. This is with respect to both technology, marketing, owner satisfaction, and service/maintenance issues.

I personally speculate, and nothing more, that Honda have developed a new heritage sport motorcycle, of about 900cc, and about 500 lbs, making about 90-95 HP at the crankshaft. I personally think it'll look a lot like the 1983 CB900F. I think it'll have many electronic rider aids and the latest ECU/engine management systems. It'll have lighter weight and a sportier handling stance.

I think this motorcycle will be made public in 2-3 years but perhaps sooner. It may be released in other countries before the USA, as was the current CB1100.

It will not be brought into the United States until all current inventory of the US-spec CB1100 motorcycles have been sold. That would include any remaining 2014 and 2017 models.

That's it. Just my take.

For everyone's benefit, if I have in some way been vague, here's what I speculate:

Honda has been making the CB1100 for about ten years and has sold many worldwide. Not many in the USA, though. During that time Honda have developed plans for a new "heritage sport" motorcycle, using everything they've learned in manufacturing the CB1100. This is with respect to both technology, marketing, owner satisfaction, and service/maintenance issues.

I personally speculate, and nothing more, that Honda have developed a new heritage sport motorcycle, of about 900cc, and about 500 lbs, making about 90-95 HP at the crankshaft. I personally think it'll look a lot like the 1983 CB900F. I think it'll have many electronic rider aids and the latest ECU/engine management systems. It'll have lighter weight and a sportier handling stance.

I think this motorcycle will be made public in 2-3 years but perhaps sooner. It may be released in other countries before the USA, as was the current CB1100.

It will not be brought into the United States until all current inventory of the US-spec CB1100 motorcycles have been sold. That would include any remaining 2014 and 2017 models.

That's it. Just my take.
Ulve
I m now confused
Part of your original quote states:

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.


Mscb writes
You state 900 buyers were not interested in 1100 to begin with above.
How does a 1100 sitting on the floor or in the warehouse affect 900 sales?
You state the 900 will be lighter, sportier, and more electronics, it will sell itself.
That’s it. Just my take.

I believe that was the mission, lol.

 

[3rdbike_imp]

I'm afraid I find myself in the curious position of wanting to defend Ulvetanna on the question of his speculation about a new 900cc air cooled Honda. I think his position has been clear all along, irrespective of whether or not he's right.

Broadly speaking, as I've understood it, he's saying:[ul] [li]Honda will walk away from the CB1100 in the US as it has developed (or will soon develop) a more high-tech air-cooled 900.[/li] [li]It will not be imported to the US until the current inventory of CB1100s has been cleared. That is because of Ulvetanna's view that the existence of unsold CB1100s will cause potential buyers of the 900 to speculate on 'what's wrong' with the CB1100 and thence avoid the 900.
[/li][/ul] Now all we have to do is hang around long enough to see whether he's right.

Should all of this come to pass, I'll repeat what I said when I bought my '17 EX: I bought an instant classic.

 

[VLJ_imp]

That's the low seat, which is standard equipment in some markets but an accessory item in the U.S. That's the seat Kawi uses to achieve their claimed 31.5" seat height, rather than the nearly 33" seat height of the U.S. model.

I actually think the low seat looks better on the bike than the thicker high seat, which looks overstuffed and bloated.

 

[max]

Found out the local dealer had four of them in Auckland so went to have a look, actually not a bad machine, tank and radiator not too much out of proportion, nice paint job on the tank but just some orange peel in a lot of places, i guess once you get over the fact that this is just not a retro bike it makes a nice naked machine, same price as the cb1100 in nz makes it a bit overpriced and looks cheaper in my opinion but does not compare to the cb1100.

Looks just like any other one with a hint of nostalgia, just not nearly as refined as the Honda, it's a different class, that's all.

sparkles nicely

Just glad i did not wait for it because i would have missed out on the cb i have now, that would have been very sad.

 

[Jvanvuren_imp]

After reading this thread I went down to our local dealer (Apex in Co Springs) and they have a Z900RS in stock. I was surprised at how rounded the tank looks in person compared to photographs... there is no real top surface to the tank, it's a nearly continuous curve from one side to the other. For me, it was easy to walk away from. I'm sure they are a lot of fun and while it was more interesting than most of the bikes they had in stock, I left feeling relieved that I didn't have another bike on my "want" list.