flynrider
Road warrior
Thanks, Guth! The more I see, the more I like!
Kawasaki Z900RS
- Thread starter Capo
- Start date
Ulvetanna_imp
Road warrior
If you plan on hanging on to your CB1100, the Kawasaki will make a good companion.Flynrider_imp said:
I bought the 2017 Z900R in March. 3500 miles so far, it's a beast, very quick revving/steering and very fast, no traction control. A true supernaked in every sense. Looks pretty good next to the Street Cup in my garage, sort of like old and new. Call me crazy, but I like both styles.
The RS version promises to be a somewhat muted version of the same bike; substantially lower compression ratio, milder cams, heavier flywheel, lower gearing but with traction control (Kawasaki's K-TRIC is fantastic, BTW), more relaxed riding position.
Now, if Honda would hurry up and come out with its air-cooled CB900RS, I'd have to make room somewhere for it.
I've been following the forum here from time to time, and it does appear -- regrettably -- as if the CB1100 is going to truly become a collector's bike. Posts are fewer and farther between, many of the old members who were so active seem not to be contributing at all any longer. Anyone who really appreciates it and cares to keep that bike going, year after year, is sort of preserving a little of Honda's history. Every example is a kind of rolling advertisement for the company's innovation and contributions to motorcycling.
I believe my old bike has gotten into some good hands. I look for it from time to time, but sadly, CB1100s of any color or year are rarely seen any longer in my area. I have one riding buddy who owns a 2013, and that's the only one I've seen in some time.
My advice to anyone considering the new Kawasaki: It's gonna be great, but hold on to your CB1100 if you can. Or at least find it a good home.
Ulvetanna_imp
Road warrior
Saw one today at the hangout. Very well finished. Owner said zero fueling issues, great handling.
The $2600 price difference between the R and RS is because the RS is made in Japan, R in Thailand, like the Triumphs, etcetera. No difference in quality or reliability, just labor costs.
A few finish differences, gloss black frame, "finning" on the engine is polished very nicely, some other cosmetic touches.
A whole gaggle of old guys just materialized around the thing when he rode in on it.
The $2600 price difference between the R and RS is because the RS is made in Japan, R in Thailand, like the Triumphs, etcetera. No difference in quality or reliability, just labor costs.
A few finish differences, gloss black frame, "finning" on the engine is polished very nicely, some other cosmetic touches.
A whole gaggle of old guys just materialized around the thing when he rode in on it.
Ulvetanna_imp
Road warrior
So, Adam Waheed weighs in:
Pardon Our Interruption
His take on the throttle sounds very accurate. The engine is rowdy like a Kawasaki should be, and it picks up very quickly right off the bottom, but nothing a smooth throttle hand cannot deal with.
I was a little surprised to hear he was noting the too-soft rear suspension. No such issue on the Z900, it has more than enough range to cover the needed damping. I am running mine at about half the available range. Rebound and compression are combined in one circuit with a stepless screw adjuster.
Since I know Waheed is a pretty accomplished track rider, I have to take him at his word about the brakes being "adequate". I would not be surprised if they were toned down from the R model. Radial mounting is cosmetic only. The binders on the R are very, very powerful by comparison.
He also notes the footpegs are more forward and lower than the R, in keeping with the more cruiser/standard/retro mission.
There's a lot of interest but also a lot of competition. Mainly from Triumph in the Thruxton, but let's face facts, no Thruxton will come close to this Kawasaki anywhere with equal riders, if outright performance is the issue.
But it usually isn't with this type of bike and I am not altogether sure that many buyers won't continue to put the Triumphs at the top of the list of possibilities. Do ya really need 111 HP? Well, do ya?:dodgy:
Pardon Our Interruption
His take on the throttle sounds very accurate. The engine is rowdy like a Kawasaki should be, and it picks up very quickly right off the bottom, but nothing a smooth throttle hand cannot deal with.
I was a little surprised to hear he was noting the too-soft rear suspension. No such issue on the Z900, it has more than enough range to cover the needed damping. I am running mine at about half the available range. Rebound and compression are combined in one circuit with a stepless screw adjuster.
Since I know Waheed is a pretty accomplished track rider, I have to take him at his word about the brakes being "adequate". I would not be surprised if they were toned down from the R model. Radial mounting is cosmetic only. The binders on the R are very, very powerful by comparison.
He also notes the footpegs are more forward and lower than the R, in keeping with the more cruiser/standard/retro mission.
There's a lot of interest but also a lot of competition. Mainly from Triumph in the Thruxton, but let's face facts, no Thruxton will come close to this Kawasaki anywhere with equal riders, if outright performance is the issue.
But it usually isn't with this type of bike and I am not altogether sure that many buyers won't continue to put the Triumphs at the top of the list of possibilities. Do ya really need 111 HP? Well, do ya?:dodgy:
No.Ulvetanna_imp said:
Stichill
Road warrior
Banned_imp
Been there
I just noticed on one of the close ups in Lemmy's review (Lemmy is the man!) that the tank has a flange - wasn't that one of the cardinal sins of the 1st gen CB1100s?? Why isn't it an issue here?
I have been reading the comments on the article - Lemmy says he prefers the 1st gen CB1100 quote "To my eye, the first-gen CB1100 with the less-swoopy tank is the perfect reissue of a bike. That said, I know they are reputedly a bit underpowered. Given my fetish for super-old junkers, that might not bug me, but I could see someone else not digging that.
The air-cooling on that bike goes a long way, and the amount of work Honda invested in making the experience similar to that of riding an old CB is considerable; but it also came with a considerable price tag. I suspect that is the bike I would prefer compared to the RS, but most mainstream riders would not." Good ol' Lemmy.
I have been reading the comments on the article - Lemmy says he prefers the 1st gen CB1100 quote "To my eye, the first-gen CB1100 with the less-swoopy tank is the perfect reissue of a bike. That said, I know they are reputedly a bit underpowered. Given my fetish for super-old junkers, that might not bug me, but I could see someone else not digging that.
The air-cooling on that bike goes a long way, and the amount of work Honda invested in making the experience similar to that of riding an old CB is considerable; but it also came with a considerable price tag. I suspect that is the bike I would prefer compared to the RS, but most mainstream riders would not." Good ol' Lemmy.
I never think about tank flanges/seams or whatever it is the people call them. Didn't notice it on the Z900RS when I first looked at it. (I haven't even bothered to go back and look fort since reading about it, lol.) I didn't notice it on the original CB1100 either. I'm far more concerned about the overall shape of the tank. This is why I'll never warm up to the tank on the new CB1100 EX even though there is no flange/seam. To each their own.
Maybe there are some guys out there that really like the Z900RS but will not buy it because of this, which is fine. I've long felt that it's best to know what you like (not what someone else likes) and purchase accordingly. This is what I try to do, and probably whey I end up hanging on to things like my vehicles for such a very long time. I totally get the appeal of a new bike (or a new car, new truck, etc.). But when I watch guys that go through bike after bike after bike or car after car after car, I wonder if they are every really happy with any of them or if they're just trying to convince themselves that they're happy after each new purchase only to discover that once the excitement wears off, that really isn't the case.
Maybe there are some guys out there that really like the Z900RS but will not buy it because of this, which is fine. I've long felt that it's best to know what you like (not what someone else likes) and purchase accordingly. This is what I try to do, and probably whey I end up hanging on to things like my vehicles for such a very long time. I totally get the appeal of a new bike (or a new car, new truck, etc.). But when I watch guys that go through bike after bike after bike or car after car after car, I wonder if they are every really happy with any of them or if they're just trying to convince themselves that they're happy after each new purchase only to discover that once the excitement wears off, that really isn't the case.
nhawk7504_imp
Been there
I'm not sure why, but I didn't care for the original 2010 CB1100 tank (2010 - it was actually designed and first sold in Japan). The uneven bottom line of the tank, and boxy look, just does not do it for me. - I don't notice the flange on the RS because the tank looks retro, flange and all, and I like the 69 CB tank better than the 80s versions. - For many people, the RS has one shock that works better than twin shocks (aging backs), and upside down forks, and is light, relatively speaking. But there is no one size fits all. I saw the new CB1100EX in person at a dealer in New Hampshire and it is stunning.Guth_imp said:
Lots of guys get killed on these retro big motor bikes. They have too much power for the weight/chassis/stopping/tires/brain of an older guy. So I like the torque vs horsepower CB1100. As for power, I bought my old VFR750 because I knew it had been raced and could handle the power it did have and I did 90 mph a LOT on that bike because it would go fast. Traffic was dangerous in clusters so I rode out ahead of the cluster. - I like motorcycles, period. Ninja 250, TU250, Sportster, CB1100, VFR and sport bikes. Here in the USA people drive literally crazy and I need to know the bike will get me out of trouble when I don't expect it; people swerving, cutting out in front, drifting lanes, stopping suddenly, they do it all here.Banned_imp said:
Banned_imp
Been there
Don't get me wrong - I don't care about tank flanges/seams one little bit, I never noticed them on my CB1100 until I read about it. It just seems that it was a major point in almost every article that I've read and not one person has mentioned it about the Z900RS.
I'm not familiar with the 2010 tank shape (I thought it was the same as later years) but I am with Guth and prefer the 2013-16 tank to the new one. And I have never felt that my CB is under powered.
I the Z is going to sell a ton of bikes, how many will keep them long term, who knows. Certainly a lot will buy due to "retro" bikes seeming to be the next fad but I suspect that a good percentage will then discover how good a UJM really is.
I'm not familiar with the 2010 tank shape (I thought it was the same as later years) but I am with Guth and prefer the 2013-16 tank to the new one. And I have never felt that my CB is under powered.
I the Z is going to sell a ton of bikes, how many will keep them long term, who knows. Certainly a lot will buy due to "retro" bikes seeming to be the next fad but I suspect that a good percentage will then discover how good a UJM really is.
Django
Road warrior
Lots of guys get killed on motor bikes.Guth_imp said:
Lots of guys get killed.
Btw. when I saw pictures of the Z900RS the first time, I felt in love instantly. But it was more like a flash in the pan. Now I'd rather take the new Kawa 1000 Versys, if I didn't had my CBF.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
I agree. A bit off topic, but there was a contributor to Motorcycle Consumer News a few years ago who continually wrote articles about which items made his bike Iron Butt worthy. He kept using the term "farkle," which I despise. Anyway, the first article was about his new GL1800 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A few months later he wrote about his new K1200LT and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A year later he wrote about his new FJR1300 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it, and finally a few months later he wrote about his new K1600GTL and all of the aftermarket items he added to it.Guth_imp said:
I wrote a letter to the editor pointing out how silly this had become. Each bike had purportedly been optimized for superior long range touring but each was always superseded by the next new thing requiring further out of pocket expenditures to somehow improve it. I suggested the contributor would never be happy and should instead reflect inwardly and try to find satisfaction with what he has. They printed my letter but offered no editorial response.
Interesting observation Django. In my opinion, good design tends to have immediate appeal, we find ourselves instantly attracted to it. Great design has lasting appeal — the more time we spend looking at it, the more we find to like. We might not all be attracted to the same designs, but most of us probably would differentiate the amount of appeal various designs have to each of us individually in a similar fashion.
Stepping out into the garage and admiring a brand new motorcycle is thrilling. Stepping out into the garage and admiring a motorcycle that's provided you with years of pleasure and that you still never tire of looking at is priceless. I'm sure that just as with the CB1100 there will be guys who buy the new Z900RS with the intention of hanging onto the bike for a long time, but who won't end up doing so (as it is with all bikes). Hopefully every single one of them finds it thrilling to lay their eyes upon the bike for the first time each day. When those days turn into months, even better, and when those months turn into years then fantastic. But by then some will have moved onto the next thing where part of the thrill is talking about how much better it it than their old Z900RS, lol. Different strokes and all that.
Stepping out into the garage and admiring a brand new motorcycle is thrilling. Stepping out into the garage and admiring a motorcycle that's provided you with years of pleasure and that you still never tire of looking at is priceless. I'm sure that just as with the CB1100 there will be guys who buy the new Z900RS with the intention of hanging onto the bike for a long time, but who won't end up doing so (as it is with all bikes). Hopefully every single one of them finds it thrilling to lay their eyes upon the bike for the first time each day. When those days turn into months, even better, and when those months turn into years then fantastic. But by then some will have moved onto the next thing where part of the thrill is talking about how much better it it than their old Z900RS, lol. Different strokes and all that.
the Ferret
Road warrior
I agree. A bit off topic, but there was a contributor to Motorcycle Consumer News a few years ago who continually wrote articles about which items made his bike Iron Butt worthy. He kept using the term "farkle," which I despise. Anyway, the first article was about his new GL1800 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A few months later he wrote about his new K1200LT and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A year later he wrote about his new FJR1300 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it, and finally a few months later he wrote about his new K1600GTL and all of the aftermarket items he added to it.LongRanger_imp said:
I wrote a letter to the editor pointing out how silly this had become. Each bike had purportedly been optimized for superior long range touring but each was always superseded by the next new thing requiring further out of pocket expenditures to somehow improve it. I suggested the contributor would never be happy and should instead reflect inwardly and try to find satisfaction with what he has. They printed my letter but offered no editorial response.
sounds like a familiar topic (from a couple 3 years ago lol)
Are motorcyclists transients unable to be satisfied?
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
The Kawasaki Z900RS is a great alternative to the Honda CB1100.
I have never owned a Kawasaki, but in the early seveties, dirt bike friends had Kawasaki 350 Big Horns and they did well cross country in the Mojave desert around Randsburg, Johannesburg, Red Mountain and Cuddeback Dry Lake.
At almost 1800 miles, I am extremely pleased with the CB1100. Coming back to Las Vegas from northern Clark County, after a pleasant but cool run along the west side of Lake Mead (highways 147/167/169), traffic on Interstate 15 was running 80+ (75 MPH zone), so cruising at 85 MPH was reasonable.
4,000 RPM in 6th is about 82 MPH. MPG dropped to 48 MPH at that speed, compared to 52 MPG, averaging about 65 MPH, on the way up on the two lane. At that speed there is a whole lot of throttle left. It feels like the motor is just plain loafing.
I very much enjoy torque that does not need 10,000+ RPMs to perform. I had this with both Sportsters, the Triumph and the Moto Guzzi...but the Honda 1140 cc has so MUCH more.
Highway 167 (North Shore Road) is constant sweeping turns and some moderate grades for more than 50 miles. The CB1100 is quite comfortable doing in all in 6th gear, or drop down a gear, maybe two, for stronger acceleration out of the turns.
After a ~140 mile run, I was not anxious to get off the saddle, so I ran a couple errands around the valley, then topped off the tank. When I got home, a hot damp cloth took care of the dust on the tank and side covers. Using the center stand, instead of a jack (as a stock Z900RS would need), I lubed the chain (589 miles and 18 days since last chain service). Chain has not yet needed adjustment.
Other than not having an ambient temperature display, I can think of nothing to change on my 2014 standard.
Not enough HP?! It will do 100 MPH in third, in < 9 seconds!
Alright, if you absolutely must have the fastest bike within 100 mile radius, then it is not for you. But for of us who love a standard naked bike, it is a dream.
I have never owned a Kawasaki, but in the early seveties, dirt bike friends had Kawasaki 350 Big Horns and they did well cross country in the Mojave desert around Randsburg, Johannesburg, Red Mountain and Cuddeback Dry Lake.
At almost 1800 miles, I am extremely pleased with the CB1100. Coming back to Las Vegas from northern Clark County, after a pleasant but cool run along the west side of Lake Mead (highways 147/167/169), traffic on Interstate 15 was running 80+ (75 MPH zone), so cruising at 85 MPH was reasonable.
4,000 RPM in 6th is about 82 MPH. MPG dropped to 48 MPH at that speed, compared to 52 MPG, averaging about 65 MPH, on the way up on the two lane. At that speed there is a whole lot of throttle left. It feels like the motor is just plain loafing.
I very much enjoy torque that does not need 10,000+ RPMs to perform. I had this with both Sportsters, the Triumph and the Moto Guzzi...but the Honda 1140 cc has so MUCH more.
Highway 167 (North Shore Road) is constant sweeping turns and some moderate grades for more than 50 miles. The CB1100 is quite comfortable doing in all in 6th gear, or drop down a gear, maybe two, for stronger acceleration out of the turns.
After a ~140 mile run, I was not anxious to get off the saddle, so I ran a couple errands around the valley, then topped off the tank. When I got home, a hot damp cloth took care of the dust on the tank and side covers. Using the center stand, instead of a jack (as a stock Z900RS would need), I lubed the chain (589 miles and 18 days since last chain service). Chain has not yet needed adjustment.
Other than not having an ambient temperature display, I can think of nothing to change on my 2014 standard.
Not enough HP?! It will do 100 MPH in third, in < 9 seconds!
Alright, if you absolutely must have the fastest bike within 100 mile radius, then it is not for you. But for of us who love a standard naked bike, it is a dream.
LongRanger, I think that some guys tend to purchase things (not just motorcycles) because they get excited by what other guys like. For some, it's not enough that they like what they buy — they need some sort of validation from other people. When something newer comes along and folks get excited about it, those same guys just can't resist the chance to own that new thing to ride the wave of excitement. Until the next new thing comes along, lol. The internet has simply kicked that behavior into overdrive for those guys.
Ulvetanna_imp
Road warrior
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
"It is a dream." Soichiro would be pleased to hear that!
Ulvetanna_imp
Road warrior
I agree. A bit off topic, but there was a contributor to Motorcycle Consumer News a few years ago who continually wrote articles about which items made his bike Iron Butt worthy. He kept using the term "farkle," which I despise. Anyway, the first article was about his new GL1800 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A few months later he wrote about his new K1200LT and all of the aftermarket items he added to it. A year later he wrote about his new FJR1300 and all of the aftermarket items he added to it, and finally a few months later he wrote about his new K1600GTL and all of the aftermarket items he added to it.LongRanger_imp said:
I wrote a letter to the editor pointing out how silly this had become. Each bike had purportedly been optimized for superior long range touring but each was always superseded by the next new thing requiring further out of pocket expenditures to somehow improve it. I suggested the contributor would never be happy and should instead reflect inwardly and try to find satisfaction with what he has. They printed my letter but offered no editorial response. I am laughing my tail off at this. I just could not concur more fervidly (that means "I'm with ya, buddy" in plain talk).
I really don't like to use terms because they've become Internet memes. "Farkle" is one of 'em. It just isn't very specific, that's all. No offense intended to anyone who farkles.
But then again, isn't that what most of us do? Hardly anyone leaves his or her bike stock. We have to change it up, make it our own. What's the first question anyone asks at the roadhouse?
"What've ya done to it?"
These days, my answer is usually, "I rode it."
People just pursue hobbies with different kinds of vigor. For most people, "farkling" gets them closer to their machine, keeps them in contact with the object of interest, and every change renews the relationship. New grips? Gotta go for a 400-mile ride to see how they work. New seat? Ditto. Change the suspension setting? At least a 200-miler to check that out. Even a shift in tire pressure settings warrants a half-day jaunt up to the Razorback and home.
Motorcycling is a freaking obsession on many levels and I've never seen anyone "outgrow" it.
Yeah, I freakin' hate to admit it to myself, but I am trying to find a way to convince my logical mind I can still successfully manage the weight.LongRanger_imp said:
Not that I ever dropped my 2013, far from it, really, but it's always a factor. No way could I ever pick ANY bike up now. One hernia surgery, which acted up and got me an ambulance ride a couple of weekends ago, convinced me of that folly. And I could probably use a second for the left side if I'm not careful.
OTOH, since I can't pick up any weight of bike, what difference does the weight make?
The CB1000R looks great, but really, what is that going to do for me that I can't already do with the Z900R? Nothing.
I like the Street Cup but it's no all-day bike.
Methinks the CB1100EX, at a nice discount, might be just the thing for this 60-year-old man. Because it's still the real thing.
