Olyrider_imp said:
Ulvetanna_imp said:
The OP is seeking a "Super Adventure" so the Africa Twin is not going to fill the bill there.
The VFR1200X would probably be a great choice if you are tall and do not really plan on ever taking it off road.
None of the Super ADV class are really going to be smart choices for even smooth dirt roads. Their strengths are in enhanced ride comfort on secondary and tertiary pavement as well as generally longer range and more options for hard luggage.
The Kawasaki is most definitely the best value for the money.
Not arguing...just disagreeing based on many miles on the bikes being discussed...except the new Versys.
Cycle World just named the Africa Twin the best "Adventure Bike" in its "Top Ten Bikes of 2016".
Writing that the "Super ADV bikes" are really not going to be "smart choices" for even "smooth dirt roads" means what exactly? Tens of thousands of us on ADVrider.com have done exactly that for over thirty years. It is the most fun I have on anything with a motor. Writing that it is akin to getting out of the car in a tiger park is unadulterated hyperbole. That's proper English for "BS". Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it dangerous or silly for someone else.
Three weeks ago, I attended the Touratech Rally in Plain, Washington. The largest ADV Rally in North America. 450 riders on mostly 12GS's and big KTM's. Your textbook definition of "Super ADV bikes". We had twelve "off-road routes". Three easy, five intermediate, and four rated "expert. Up to 100 miles long. Not even the "easy" routes fit your definition of smooth gravel. No one complained. Everyone went home happy. We rode a couple of the expert routes. Dale on his VFR1200X. No mods and stock skid plate.
It is hard to have an informed opinion about a bike you haven't personally ridden in the conditions you state are as dangerous for the rider as a Tiger Park foray.
I am championing the virtues of the VFR1200X...NOT extolling the virtues of any rider. We all know to "Ride your own Ride!"
IMHO, of course...
Not arguing...just disagreeing based on many miles on the bikes being discussed...except the new Versys.
Cycle World just named the Africa Twin the best "Adventure Bike" in its "Top Ten Bikes of 2016".
Writing that the "Super ADV bikes" are really not going to be "smart choices" for even "smooth dirt roads" means what exactly? Tens of thousands of us on ADVrider.com have done exactly that for over thirty years. It is the most fun I have on anything with a motor. Writing that it is akin to getting out of the car in a tiger park is unadulterated hyperbole. That's proper English for "BS". Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it dangerous or silly for someone else.
Three weeks ago, I attended the Touratech Rally in Plain, Washington. The largest ADV Rally in North America. 450 riders on mostly 12GS's and big KTM's. Your textbook definition of "Super ADV bikes". We had twelve "off-road routes". Three easy, five intermediate, and four rated "expert. Up to 100 miles long. Not even the "easy" routes fit your definition of smooth gravel. No one complained. Everyone went home happy. We rode a couple of the expert routes. Dale on his VFR1200X. No mods and stock skid plate.
It is hard to have an informed opinion about a bike you haven't personally ridden in the conditions you state are as dangerous for the rider as a Tiger Park foray.
I am championing the virtues of the VFR1200X...NOT extolling the virtues of any rider. We all know to "Ride your own Ride!"
IMHO, of course... Of course there are some riders with the ability to handle these machines; I certainly don't argue that. I recall an image of Kenny Roberts pitching a V-Max completely sideways, quite spectacularly. I think KR knows his limitations, though. I attended a BMW Rally in Arizona where a guy rode his R100RT on the same route where most of us were all riding GS's, and he was two-up. He was careful and picked his way around the tough sections but was able to pull it off. I used to ride my Hawk GT 647 off-road, and I don't mean well-groomed dirt. Dirt bikes used to have 5" of travel and were low-slung, as anyone who recalls Malcolm Smith would know. Most of us cannot ride like Malcolm or Kenny Roberts, though.
The ADV market is burgeoning and many riders who have never ridden off-road are buying these motorcycles, much to their chagrin. And many are middle-aged or even older, and getting geared up to the maximum possible configuration. They've got the money and the desire.
There are "clinics" and riding schools that purport to be able to teach new riders off-road riding skills on the behemoths that are marketed as off-road capable. We have all seen the images. It's not any different than the images of sportbikes in advertisements, with the fine print stating the rider is an expert on a closed course.
I must disagree; we don't all know how to ride our own ride. Many of us want to keep up with the fast guy and try to ride his ride, and just as often the fast guy doesn't care what happens behind him. We do all take our own risks, that is true.
I have seen many a rider scraped off the road trying to chase down the fast guy, and plenty of them get bikes that are too much for them. These Super Adventure bikes are a lot of bike and without expert riding skills for off-road (and even with such skills) the chance of getting in trouble is quite a bit higher with the extra weight.
I started riding dirt in 1983 on an XT200, worked up to the XT550, then an XL600, and so on. There was a CR250R in there somewhere as well. In 1990 I purchased a new R100GS and rode it quite extensively in a wide variety of conditions. That particular bike handled extremely well off-road because of the low-slung flat twin, much better than the new F800GS which carries its weight high, with the fuel above the rear tire, and thus is harder to control when the rear wheel steps out, among other things. The F800GS is much better on pavement with a lot more power, though, and that is the trend. More power and more features but less practical and capable.
If one were to lay an R100GS down, it would only fall to about a 45 degree angle and was very easy to pick up. I never had to do this but I had a lot more confidence in being able to pick the machine up and continue if I were to have dropped it.
These new machines (excepting the R1200GS) fall flat on their sides and are very heavy, some over 600 pounds; that R100GS was about the same weight as the F800GS (470 pounds) but much easier to pick up and handle because of the low CG.
I don't believe my example of the tiger preserve was hyperbole in any sense; I personally know folks who were stranded without help and died slowly and painfully of exposure. It nearly happened twice to me, once on the LA to Barstow to Vegas ride one Thanksgiving week, and another time when I was tearing around off-road on an XT550 and got down to the bottom of a hill the bike was unable to climb. In the first instance, I was very fortunately picked up by the sweep, and in the second, by some hunters. The following weekend, two people died of exposure in the same area when they got lost, and were not found in time to save them. I should think that a quick bite through the spinal cord would be more merciful.
If one must have the biggest and most powerful Super ADV, don't ride alone off-road, always ride with a buddy. And maybe a satellite phone.
