Is the inner axel sleeve really necessary?

[silascopathic_imp]

Hey friends,

Is the inner axel sleeve really necessary? If you remove your front and rear wheels, there is a gasket, bearing, inner sleeve, bearing and another gasket, that the entire axel goes through.

What I have noticed is that inner sleeve, tends to make a knocking sound which drives me crazy. Can that inner sleeve just be removed? I see no reason why or what it even is doing?



[url=http://s561.photobucket.com/user/SIGFREAK239/media/MGC4F1940.jpg.html]

 

[CIP57_imp]

I'm sure its in the design for a reason. Possible to put pressure on the wheel bearings when you tighten up the wheel. Just had my front up on the jack and only hear brake pad friction. No noise coming from the inner hub front or back. Did you lube the shaft well on install??

 

[kDiqq_imp]

I'm usually fairly generous on grease with those collars. That will eliminate all knocking around. I have used wheel bearing grease there, but given its non-essential loads, marine grease would prove more water resistant. I'd leave it though as it prevents the bearings from scooting too far in from tightening.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

 

[Rocky_imp]

I'm with CIP57, it was put there for a reason and I wouldn't remove it.
The engineers and designers know more than we do and I would try to work around it for a solution to your problem.
Just my humble opinion

 

[silascopathic_imp]

Thanks for the help gents! I think there is not enough grease on the axel to be honest. Time to rip the wheel off again lol

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

Eric Buell Racing removed the entire inner hub from their wheels. They say it contributes nothing significant to the wheels strength. But I'd leave the sleeve in...

 

[Randy B]

I would think it is there the either put a preload on the bearings or it is used as a spacer for the bearing and shouldn't be flopping around in there. I haven't heard any clunking/knocking so I'm not sure as to the noise you are hearing.

 

[silascopathic_imp]

If you take either wheel off, there is a designated spot for the bearings. there is no way that they can push through and they are held in by a gasket. the inner sleeve litterally just slides in... is seems really unimportant.. anyone have an email for Eric Buell Racing? I would love to talk with him about it.

 

[dlhmatt_imp]

Did you try it without it in there?
Recently did tires on mine and both of my distance collars were snug between the bearings. You may want to make sure both bearings are seated. It's a bigger diameter than the inner race of the bearing. Nothing just slides in. Its installed after one bearing is installed then the next. To remove it you would have to remove a bearing. Nothing is held in by gaskets (dust shields) other than fluids and dust shields keep contaminants out. Bearings are a friction fit that must be pulled out and driven in.

Here is an exact quote from the manual "drive in a new right wheel bearing squarely until it is fully seated on the hub. Install the distance collar, then drive in the new left bearing until it is seated on the distance collar"
So yes the right side uses the lip in the hub when you drive in the bearing then the left side will go in as far as needed and probably not touch that lip. This is used to "center" the rim and brake discs.

 

[rmack_imp]

if the inner tube is flopping around then you have not got the bearings in correctly when correctly fitted there is no way the tube can just flop around , without the inner tune when the wheel is correctly tensioned it sits on the inner race of the bearing both sides without it your bearings will collapse

 

[the Ferret]

Remember, Silas had his wheels powder coated brown. Is it possible there is a layer of coating preventing the bearings from seating properly and leaving too much space for the inner sleeve? Just grasping at straws here.

 

[dlhmatt_imp]

Remember, Silas had his wheels powder coated brown. Is it possible there is a layer of coating preventing the bearings from seating properly and leaving too much space for the inner sleeve? Just grasping at straws here.

That's hardly a grasp, that sounds spot on. If there is powder coating in the hub it will make the bearing sit farther out from the center anywhere from 0.001" - 0.005" on both sides.

Or someone didn't install the bearings correctly.

 

[silascopathic_imp]

Good thoughts gents! Hopefully this weekend I can take the wheels off and get to the bottom of this. It is really on the rear wheel at this point. Glad I asked the group. I will report back with my (hopefull) success

 

[dlhmatt_imp]

Also if you are taking out the wheel bearings they MUST be replaced. So if someone removed your wheel bearings to powder coat and reinstalled the old ones they are probably destroyed. Get it up on the center stand and try to shake the wheel.

 

[tintoy_imp]

Do not remove the tubes.They are there to prevent the inner race of the bearings being pushed inward too far causing the balls to ride out of their designed center position.

Also, it is very important not to over tighten the axle bolts that may cause the tube to "crush" slightly causing the same problem. It can lead to hot running bearings and ultimate failure. When torquing the axles try to go halfway between the max and min specs.

I have seen this condition due to over torquing. The wheel spins fine cold, but will drag when the bearing gets warm or hot.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

Good thoughts gents! Hopefully this weekend I can take the wheels off and get to the bottom of this. It is really on the rear wheel at this point. Glad I asked the group. I will report back with my (hopefull) success

you're hearing what sounds like the spacer flop around while riding or turning the wheel? That sounds impossible. If the axle was torqued and the spacer was not squeezed between the outer spacers and bearing races, the bearings would have so much side force that the wheel would barely turn. You might be hearing the clack of a failed wheel bearing or something screwey with the driven hub or some other sound. As mentioned, the wheel bearings are ruined when removed and new must be installed (properly).
Last year you had a thread on your bad bearings after the powdercoat job. Did you ever have new bearings put in? This could be the same thing.

 

[dlhmatt_imp]

Good thoughts gents! Hopefully this weekend I can take the wheels off and get to the bottom of this. It is really on the rear wheel at this point. Glad I asked the group. I will report back with my (hopefull) success

you're hearing what sounds like the spacer flop around while riding or turning the wheel? That sounds impossible. If the axle was torqued and the spacer was not squeezed between the outer spacers and bearing races, the bearings would have so much side force that the wheel would barely turn. You might be hearing the clack of a failed wheel bearing or something screwey with the driven hub or some other sound. As mentioned, the wheel bearings are ruined when removed and new must be installed (properly).
Last year you had a thread on your bad bearings after the powdercoat job. Did you ever have new bearings put in? This could be the same thing.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Great help and info gents

 

[dlhmatt_imp]

So what's the verdict?

 

[Stary Motocyklista_imp]

Tintoy has it right. It is absolutely necessary. Your wheel bearings are not designed to be preloaded. Without the sleeve the full pressure of axle nut torque would applied to the wheel bearings from the inner race, through the ball bearings, to the outer race. This would break them. The spacer makes it possible to torque the axle nut properly to secure the rear axle in the swing arm and not apply preload to the wheel bearings.