Interesting conversation re: demographics

[LongRanger_imp]

Tough to say, but I can't imagine many 70-year old retirees have an interest in getting into motorcycling (physical limitations, lack of stamina, declining eyesight, perceived risks, spouse disapproval) but I could definitely see them getting behind the wheel of a Winnebago for the first time. Maybe it's just me.

 

[the Ferret]

I am not saying there is a definite correlation between the two, that would take a survey of RV owners, but it seems to me that going to an RV from a motorcycle might be a logical step.

LR i wasnt talking about 70 year olds buying their FIRST motorcycle, but 70 year olds who had been riding and buying motorcycles for years, giving up their last motorcycle and not buying any more.

My wife has mentioned getting an rv/ toy hauler since she can no longer ride long distance. I don't want to drive an RV ( dont mind pulling the right trailer with my bike on it behind my Ridgeline,) but I can see where a motorcyclist in his late 60s early 70s might facing the end of a motorcycling career might make the leap to RVing..

 

[Ben70_imp]

+1 on Stichill's observations re the prep and unprep of the camping and boating pursuits. Done lot's of both, and love it, BUT...
And with the bike, if I want to go for a spin when no one else wants to, or if I have some time available, it's right there.
We have hashed out the problem of not getting the younger generations interested in motorcycles and I think that has a lot to do with it.
I think the fascination with the toys of the digital age is contributing to the problem. Years ago when we went tent camping, campgrounds were over run with kids and teens. We have a little camper now, no more sleeping on the ground, but we have observed a dramatic drop in young people outdoors.

Ben

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Ben, I think that's a telling observation. Very interesting.

 

[Stichill]

Doesnt explain the drop in motorcycle sales and rise in RV sales though.

They are unrelated. It's like trying to correlate a rise in broccoli consumption with a decrease in the number of people bowling.


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Interesting hypothesis, ferret, but I'd agree with Capo. There is simply a tsunami of Baby Boomers retiring with fat pensions and retirement savings accounts who want to hit the road in an 8-1/2' wide, 40' long mobile hotel suite.

Tough to say, but I can't imagine many 70-year old retirees have an interest in getting into motorcycling (physical limitations, lack of stamina, declining eyesight, perceived risks, spouse disapproval) but I could definitely see them getting behind the wheel of a Winnebago for the first time. Maybe it's just me.

Indeed. And the laws of probability would predict that the 'she' of the 'he and she' would rather travel in a motorhome than ride pillion on a bike.

My own mother, Momma Stichill, was not amused when the realization dawned on her that Pappa Stichill's motorhome came equipped with a full kitchen that had to be stocked, operated, and cleaned up - just like the one found at home - by her, while on 'vacation'.

 

[Capo]

Meanwhile, golf is hitting the skids, with millions in the US giving up the game. A number of contributory reasons, but I find it surprising in light of the boomer- retirement complex.


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[Stichill]

Stichill, I came to the same conclusion when considering the purchase of a ski condo. The numbers didn't work and the hassle of furnishing, maintaining and cleaning the unit would outweigh the benefit of ownership. I now stay in hotels instead.

Not to mention: it's nice to have the freedom to visit different places, or to not feel like you "have to" go there to get your money's worth out if it.

It's like any asset where the hours of utilization don't justify locking up the capital. If boat owners actually tallied up the cost per hour of use "all in" they'd never buy one unless the income was considered truly disposable. RV'ers might do better if they spend a lot of time in the unit and save on hotel costs.

In general, it's almost always more sensible to rent than buy vacation assets that would get limited periods of use. The only thing that would change that, IMO, is if you absolutely love going back to the same magical place time and time again, and cherish the idea of having your own bit of heaven that's all yours and that no one else can mess with. Everything is just as you like it and it stays that way upon your return.

My buddy's dad, a state civil servant, built a place on Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia. He spent weekend upon weekend up there finishing it off, building a boat house, dock, wooden steps, rip-rapping the banks, etc. He retired and got ten good years living his dream before passing in his sleep. His widow still lives there. The place in the meantime has appreciated wildly. I don't think the kids will sell it out of the estate but if they did they could all retire early.

 

[use2b_imp]

for sure the drop in motorcycle sales has to do with snowflakes on their electronic gadgets just like motor homes and boats.
BTW and not to derail but for a laugh , this was yesterday morning .
i once had a 28 foot Chris Craft and now have a sun dolphin paddle boat and am so much happier .....

 

[Stichill]

Despite my griping about the hassles of boat ownership...once you're actually out on the water, boating is great. This is Pappa Stichill at the helm with me in the First Mate's chair, about 17 years ago on Lac Vieux Desert in northern Wisconsin.

Pappa Stichill bought the one-year-old boat in 1966 from the original owner, who was being deployed to Vietnam.

I've kept the boat in my garage for 25 years, two states away from where he lives. The old man won't turn the title over to me, even though he can't even get in the boat anymore. It's been garaged it's whole life, and when cleaned up and waxed looks like it's almost new.

 

[the Ferret]

Did not know golf was taking a dump. That doesn't even make sense with all the boomers retiring lol. Wonder if anyone bowls anymore. It used to be on TV when I was a kid.. " King of TV Bowling". Every Sunday morning.

 

[Stichill]

I've always considered golf to be a fundamental character flaw, lol. So its demise isn't too disturbing to me.

 

[use2b_imp]

I've always considered golf to be a fundamental character flaw, lol. So its demise isn't too disturbing to me.

might be a southern thing but i do not know
golf is another ball fetching sport i never understood as you have to pay money to hit a ball then walk a long way or pay money for a ride.
might be the Redneck in me that that thinks if you do not bring something home to cook it really isn't a sport .
with no registration , insurance , fishing license , maintenance or permission required i enjoy shoving a paddle boat from my back yard into the water to catch dinner so even in hard times i will eat well. crushed dog food or corn meal brings in shrimp for my net in about 5 minutes.
with no insurance required for motorcycles i tend to enjoy freedom more when it is free but i am a simple man with a simple care free life who last worked in June 1990 the year i sold my motorhome

 

[Stichill]

Well said, use2b. Live Free or Die.

 

[Guth_imp]

I must admit that I know very few motorcyclists amongst my circle of family, friends and acquaintances in life. However, I have been surprised by the number of people who I've known or have conversed with over the years who did ride at some point earlier in their life.

The bottom line as I see it is this: For a variety of reasons, it seems that a good percentage of people who find themselves drawn to motorcycling end up seeing it as an activity to be enjoyed for a period of time only to be replaced by other activities at some point down the road. As interest in motorcycles decreases among younger generations, and older generations decrease in number (or have decided that their motorcycling phase of life is over) it comes as little surprise that we are seeing a decline in motorcycle sales and motorcycling in general. On the flip side, while younger generations are also showing a decreased interest in cars as well, there are still plenty of people around who are comfortable with sitting behind the wheel of a vehicle and piloting their way down the road. For quite a few of these folks (an increasing number it would seem), a RV must not seem like that much of a stretch when it comes to ways they can spend their retirement years.

People often say things like "it's all about the journey and not the destination". That philosophy would certainly seem to hold true in the case of riding motorcycles. For most people, when it comes to motorcycling the machine itself plays a key role in the experience — an extremely visceral experience at that. Of course the destination often does matter but hopefully you get my point. I feel that the folks who are sucked in primarily by the visceral element of riding are the ones who tend to stick with it longer, well into their later years.

I'd guess that for many who are drawn to RVs, the reverse is true — it's more about the destination(s). An RV can haul you places and provide you with a place to stay when you get there. I can't imagine that there is much fun to be had in driving one of those things. I suppose that many find enjoyment in the "camping" that occurs as part of the deal. However, wrapping yourself up inside of your home and heading off down the road is about as non-visceral as it gets, perhaps topped only by simply staying at home (the kind without a motor and wheels). But hey, we all like what we like. To each their own.

One of the few constants in the world is change.

 

[use2b_imp]

very well put Guth. the beauty of it all is many of us live in nations where we are free to chase our dreams and enjoy things we should be thankful for. and i feel fortunate to get to talk to people from all these nations about a common passion and sometimes take a slight jab at many for fun and comradery
having a motor home was only fun for a while but motorcycles is and will always be my 1st true love. haven't been without one for 54 years except when my 69 cb750 was stolen while in Vietnam without my knowledge.
should be getting some sleep right now because i am going on a " Road to Freedom Poker Run " in 4 hours followed by 2 days of music , free food and beer at a local bike rally , life if good and i dread the day i take my last ride which i know will be sooner than my past.

 

[pdedse]

I have two friends with boats. They have a saying. "There are two days you enjoy a boat, the day you buy it and the day you get rid of it".

Each year Gil brings his boat up from Fredericksburg, Virginia so we can enjoy a weeks fishing on West Lake next to the Sandbanks Park on Lake Ontario. It seems there is always something that needs repair before his visit. This year it was a $1000 repair on the four carbs of the motor. On his way home the trailer had a flat tire in the hills of Pennsylvania.

I am lucky that I have a historic dam to fish from 10 minutes from my home. The last time I was there I caught a 2 pound Pickerel (Walleye). It was a perfect size for eating, and I seriously considered taking it home. But I am a catch and release fisherman. After I long pause I told the fish he was lucky and tossed him back in.

In defense of boat ownership (and as an extension, RVs because maintaining / use issues have some similarities):

I do wonder what would possess someone to put down $60k for a Mastercraft wakeboard boat when that money could be better spent buying 9 new CB1100 '14 Standards, but to each his own...

I hear the cautions about too much time and hassle, too much money for RVs and boats--I don't own an RV but do have a Glastron 17' ski boat. It's MSRP back in 2006 was $27k! I bought it used from a guy in 2012 for $8900 and it has run near perfect. I live near the Colombia River and in 30 minutes it goes from covered parking on the side of my house to on the river, ready to have fun with the kids and their friends. It's instant vacation each time when out on the river. I go alone to get away and just float while I hold my "office hours" on Fridays with cell phone in hand and quizzes to grade. I can take my wife and friends for boat picnics and see the city of Portland from a different angle. I take it out between 20-30 times per season, March to October here in Oregon. A friend and I go out early Saturday mornings and we ski before any crowds form at the marina. It's really pretty cool.

But I researched all that before buying the boat. I saw how close I was to the river that has countless areas to explore. My budget wouldn't allow for a fancy ski boat and I didn't have room on the side of the house for a 20' plus vessel. I researched the Glastron like you would for any vehicle and people seemed to love it. I have to winterize it and yearly maintenance is around $500, and gas averages about $20 per outing, coming out to about $40-45 cost each time I take it out. Small families exceed that just going out to dinner. Believe me, boating is more fun.

But, you have to accept that there is lots of equipment with skis, wakeboards, tow ropes, vests, inflatables for towing (which do require time to inflate and tie down). And on hot days, you have to have some patience to get all those things ready--worth it to me. 6 years later and my year and model of boat seems to be selling on CL for around $8-10k. If I really wanted to sell I would feel comfortable undercutting that to $6-7k...of course assuming someone would actually buy it!

I get a very similar freedom boating that I do with my motorcycle riding, but different. When people ask about owning, I tell them to think over all the above to see if they're comfortable with the idea: time getting ready, drive to water, putting things away, maintenance, cleaning, etc. After 6 years, maybe I get a little tired from doing some of that, but I'm still happy it's there, ready to go.

But...I can't see boating replacing mc interest. Nope. Nor would an RV...at least for now. But all three, boating, RV touring, MC riding all allow for one to see different things, have a bit of adventure and enjoy things out there. So I can see RV purchases affecting MC sales somewhat...but, think it all through before plunking down the money. Awk!, too long!

 

[Nortoon_imp]

I appreciate the time I spend in my buddy's boat fishing on one of Ontario's many lakes. Nothing more relaxing than spending a day fishing. But the costs for a boat, motor, trailer, insurance, maintenance, and winter storage are a turn off.

 

[Stichill]

pdedse, you're in a good boating situation and you've beaten the game by buying a quality used boat. For me, a decent fresh lake water suitable for powerboating is 1-1/2 hours away. I can get onto the Ohio River in about 45 minutes, but it's a just big muddy ditch with who knows what floating in it. I like to go for a swim when the weather is warm. Boating is similar to motorcycling in that you have a sense of freedom to go where you want and linger where you want. It's a different experience than being in a car...it's that sense of outdoor motion. Boats lean into a turn just like a motorcycle. There's nothing better than being out on a dead flat calm lake in the morning or evening and just cutting arcs through the still water.

 

[Cormanus]

pdedse, you're in a good boating situation and you've beaten the game by buying a quality used boat. For me, a decent fresh lake water suitable for powerboating is 1-1/2 hours away. I can get onto the Ohio River in about 45 minutes, but it's a just big muddy ditch with who knows what floating in it. I like to go for a swim when the weather is warm. Boating is similar to motorcycling in that you have a sense of freedom to go where you want and linger where you want. It's a different experience than being in a car...it's that sense of outdoor motion. Boats lean into a turn just like a motorcycle. There's nothing better than being out on a dead flat calm lake in the morning or evening and just cutting arcs through the still water.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Guth_imp]

Well this conversation has taken an interesting turn.

For me no boating based event can top floating down a river while surrounded by a forest and being outnumbered by bald eagles (although many prefer the scenery offered by the rivers nestled within the arid canyons out east of here). My one man inflatable pontoon boat fits in the back of my truck and gets me to places that I simply can't access by foot. For me, spending a day on/in the river spey fishing (fly fishing) for steelhead is perhaps the ultimate activity. If I had to choose between fishing and motorcycling, well I suppose I already have as nothing has eaten into my motorcycling time more than fly fishing has. Ironically I took up fishing late in life, starting not too long before launching this forum.

However, to keep things somewhat on point, I can draw a few parallels between spey fishing and motorcycling. Key amongst them would be these things:
- Both are capable of offering intense moments fueled by adrenaline (be it pushing your riding skills on a challenging road (or dodging motorists in traffic) or running rapids between spots where you can stop to fish).
- Both require that you deal with certain "discomforts" (exposure to the elements, donning lots of gear, etc. — when it comes to riding and fishing, I've done both year round).
- Both activities demand that you truly engage yourself in the process (couch potatoes need not apply).
- Most people that I've met, currently know or might meet in the future will never engage in either pursuit.