Your riding buddy has some interesting points, here are my thoughts: Detergent oils work by trapping the dirt and returning it to the filter to be removed (the larger particles, anyway). When your buddy allows his bike to sit overnight before changing his oil the dirt particles trapped by the oil all settle out, to the bottom of the oil pan. When he drains his oil do all of these dirt particles wash out? Nobody can really answer this question. By starting your engine and allowing it to warm to operating temperature the oil will pick-up all these dirt particles and suspend them, and I believe resulting in a more thorough removal of the dirt when you drain the oil. The warmer oil temperature will suspend more dirt also.
interesting conversation about draining oil
- Thread starter the Ferret
- Start date
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
I'm no expert, but I'm going with Dave on this one.
emptysea
Road warrior
So...I drop my bike off at Honda and they do the oil change. I prefer to do this when it's cold outside.
I posted this earlier in my mod section, but it should be here. I ALWAYS do it warm. Contrary to some, IMPO, warm is better. The small items that pass through the filter do re-suspend in the oil and any gunk on the bottom unsticks together allowing it to flow out vs staying stuck to the pan when cold. It provides the most complete flush. Let each do what they are comfortable with.
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
Check your owner's manuals if you own other bikes. The ones I've had do say to warm it up first.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Thread starter
Well, I just went out and warmed it up. 143 miles worth to be exact lol. Draining now. C'mon all you lil' suspended dirt particles...get outta my engine!
silverbub_imp
Running like a top
Oh, no,...Mr. Ferret,...would it not have been better to ride 150 miles to suspend all the little particulate "buggers"?...Shoot, you were only 7 miles short of the "optimal" warm-up...now,...let it drain for quite a few minutes to drip out those last few ounces up high in the engine! & be diligent in your torque values on drain bolt & filter!
Pterodactyl_imp
Road warrior
I wonder if a bottle of one of those gut cleansing powders that are available in "health food" shops, if added prior to oil change, would help. Certainly a semiannual sump cleansing routine should be instituted to save the engine from those "dirty" contaminants.The ferret_imp said:
Cheers
Jim21680_imp
Been there
I think this has been mentioned before, but again, what's the difference between the amount of oil required during a normal oil change with filter, and a first-time fill up on a new engine? Well over a quart I assume?
I wonder if a bottle of one of those gut cleansing powders that are available in "health food" shops, if added prior to oil change, would help. Certainly a semiannual sump cleansing routine should be instituted to save the engine from those "dirty" contaminants.Pterodactyl_imp said:I wonder if a bottle of one of those gut cleansing powders that are available in "health food" shops, if added prior to oil change, would help. Certainly a semiannual sump cleansing routine should be instituted to save the engine from those "dirty" contaminants.The ferret_imp said:
Cheers
Cheers
I reckon a good flush out with a mixture of dishwashing detergent and degreaser does the engine the world of good. Particularly when you use DACTYL Omnigrade.
4 Paws_imp
Road warrior
I just change the oil. Have crossed the 100,000 mile mark on bikes with no engine failures.
I service frequently. And don't burn my fingers.
Do lube the chain when it's warm though.
I service frequently. And don't burn my fingers.
Do lube the chain when it's warm though.
mininsx_imp
Been there
I do it both ways for the sake of convenience; the oil filter is there to trap contaminates, so I don't worry about it.
Bokobob_imp
Running like a top
Once a year or so, I add a couple of ounces of Seafoam to the crankcase and ride about 50 miles before changing the oil. Comes out mighty dirty. Only saying.
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
Only around four ounces.Jim21680_imp said:
immgunn_imp
Running like a top
You're a wise man.
You're a wise man.Bokobob_imp said:
rboe
Road warrior
The sump on my Griso has internal ribs leaving pockets to trap particulates (I know this because I had to replace it once). Hot or cold, can't drain stuff that has settled in those low spots. Not sure if our CB has similar ribs; I would not be surprised.
If you change oil often I think this is a moot point.
hrug:
If you change oil often I think this is a moot point.
hrug:kmoney_imp
Road warrior
I think this is probably the answer. The only modern engines I've ever seen with large deposits in the oil were either massively neglected, had design flaws (toyota 3.0, VW 1.8), or had other mechanical failures. The detergent packages are so good in modern oils that I don't think this is really a big problem.Rboe_imp said:The sump on my Griso has internal ribs leaving pockets to trap particulates (I know this because I had to replace it once). Hot or cold, can't drain stuff that has settled in those low spots. Not sure if our CB has similar ribs; I would not be surprised.
If you change oil often I think this is a moot point.
rboe
Road warrior
I finally changed the oil on the Griso (it's been pretty darn cool and even rainy since it came back from the shop after having it's tappets upgraded from flat to rollers) and I decided to do a cool drain as I didn't want to cycle any crap from the disintegrating flat tappet coatings around the motor any more than needed. I also dropped the sump to inspect it for said crud laying around in the bottom (no ribs, just the depression for the pickup for the oil - my bad - although it did have some corners 
).
Well I found this white stuff that looked all the world to be a fine grained contaminant so I stressed out a bit and posted pics of it over on grisoghetto.com. Chief mechanic said it looked like mayo to him.
So, if the oil is not warm enough to suspend nicely any moisture you may see what I saw - and perhaps freak a bit. Here is what it looked liked in the drain pan and sump.
).Well I found this white stuff that looked all the world to be a fine grained contaminant so I stressed out a bit and posted pics of it over on grisoghetto.com. Chief mechanic said it looked like mayo to him.
So, if the oil is not warm enough to suspend nicely any moisture you may see what I saw - and perhaps freak a bit.
Here is what it looked liked in the drain pan and sump.Toddman_imp
Running like a top
Interesting thread...
I've always changed mine warm but I don't think it matters.
I miss my old KZ with the kickstarter. You could flush more oil out with just a couple of kicks while it is draining.
I don't fret over oil and changes like I used to. If you change it after a hard hot weekend of riding and at the beginning of the season, you'll be good. Trackdays will thrash oil and it's important to change after a trackday.
Rboe,
I think you are seeing moisture (Mayo). IF you don't ride your bike long enough to boil off the water, you'll get that white stuff. Those 15 minute rides will do that.
I've always changed mine warm but I don't think it matters.
I miss my old KZ with the kickstarter. You could flush more oil out with just a couple of kicks while it is draining.
I don't fret over oil and changes like I used to. If you change it after a hard hot weekend of riding and at the beginning of the season, you'll be good. Trackdays will thrash oil and it's important to change after a trackday.
Rboe,
I think you are seeing moisture (Mayo). IF you don't ride your bike long enough to boil off the water, you'll get that white stuff. Those 15 minute rides will do that.
rboe
Road warrior
They are usually 30+ rides. However; it appears the Griso is a bit over cooled with the oil cooler, cooler wetter climes have proven a wee bit problematic. Phoenix, this winter, has been cooler and more humid. Didn't see that coming!
Some folks have resorted to blocking off some of the air flow to the oil cooler to help and I'm looking at that. Would like to add an oil thermometer to monitor it though. Getting too hot is just as bad.
I'm going to try and remember to do a warm oil change next and see if this goes away.
Some folks have resorted to blocking off some of the air flow to the oil cooler to help and I'm looking at that. Would like to add an oil thermometer to monitor it though. Getting too hot is just as bad.
I'm going to try and remember to do a warm oil change next and see if this goes away.
