I'm close to buying this exhaust, BUT

Inline4, why don't you talk to Don Guhl who does the reflashes? He seems to be the man who really understands all this. I seem to recall from another thread that you make have to ring rather than email.
 
I've continued in my research on the topic of ECU reflashing and Dyno tuning. What I've come away with so far is that generally speaking, you only need one or the other. Once ideal AFRs have been determined for a particular model bike, those settings can be downloaded onto the reflashed ECU along with all the other adjustments that a reflash can provide - removing speed limiter, increasing rpm range, decreasing engine braking, etc. Those AFRs have to come from somewhere though. Most bikes have maps available from a Dyno tune that can be used by someone like Don Guhl for the reflash without having to put your bike on a Dyno. In that case, you don't need to run a PC-V (or any other similar fuel management unit).

If, however, you happen to have a bike that hasn't had a map developed yet, someone like Don can guess as to the appropriate map to download onto your ECU. Hopefully, that works out fine. However, if you want to be sure it's right or you want to fine tune it so it's specific to your bike, then you'll need a fuel management unit and Dyno tune in addition to the reflash. The same is true if you make major engine modifications after a reflash.

My plan is to have a map developed for the 2014 CB running a Yoshimura RS-3 slip- on. That map will then be available for download to any PC-V unit through Dynojet. If I decide I want to reflash my ECU for the other benefits that provides, I will have Don use the map developed for my bike and at that point won't need to run the PC-V any longer unless and until I make any other big changes such as going to a full exhaust and high performance air filter.

I plan on asking a lot of questions at Dynojet and I'll continue to share with all of you what I learn.
 
Good on you MG. Look forward to learning more.
 
Thread starter
I received a reply from Takashi this morning. He told be the end or cap of the Nojima is actually different from how it appears on his website.
He sent me this link to show the difference. http://www.nojima-japan.co.jp/products/nojima_MEGAPHONE/N-Meg_images/Honda cb1100_meg.pdf
Hard to tell from this pics, but I'm guessing that what he is referring to color of the baffle "end or cap" in one pic appears to be unpainted aluminum, while
in other pics the cap appears to be painted or powder coated.
I told him I prefer the bare look, but I am going to buy the exhaust nonetheless.
Just waiting for an invoice now. :-)
 
Thread starter
Inline4_imp said:
Cormanus_imp said:
I thought the general consensus was that you didn't need both a PCV and a reflash. As I understand it, the reflash does everything the PCV can do and then some.
Click to expand...
That's good to know Cormanus. That was what I was hoping to determine through replies to my original post, but I'm not very adept at relaying thoughts/questions through my keyboard. :blush:
I just sent an email to the tuner in Tupelo and hope to hear back from him in a few days. I'm also about to ask Mr T if he is aware of any quality issues with the Nojima exhausts he has sold. I'm getting pretty psyched over this exhaust!:biker:
Click to expand...
That's good to know Cormanus. That was what I was hoping to determine through replies to my original post, but I'm not very adept at relaying thoughts/questions through my keyboard. :blush:
I just sent an email to the tuner in Tupelo and hope to hear back from him in a few days. I'm also about to ask Mr T if he is aware of any quality issues with the Nojima exhausts he has sold. I'm getting pretty psyched over this exhaust!:biker:
I'm getting more confused all the time. Yea, I know........EVERYONE here is shocked!!! :D
This is the reply I got from Chuck Wilburn in Tupelo......

Hi Jim, sorry for the late reply- I was on vacation last week. You only need a power commander, I can do everything needed with that. A custom map will give your bike correct A/F ratio at every throttle position/rpm and will be reflected in hp. I can't map a bike to just gain hp in certain areas- all areas will be correct and the hp is what it is. I charge $300 cash, you can ride it down or trailer it, doesn't matter. Give me a call if you need more info. 662 840 4488
 
He'll customize the PCV for your bike based on it's Dyno run, if you see the map values I posted in the image above, that was Dyno Jets tweaks based on a stock CB with stock exhaust, after he is done, you can display the map and hopefully the values will be a little different than the one I posted because you have a full exhaust on yours. be careful though, another member brought his to a Dyno tuner, but when we looked at his map it was identical to the stock one(posted above) so his tuner did not even modify the stock map even after charging him. Tuners have problems because they can't hit redline in top gear on the CB due to limits.
 
InLine4, far be it from me to contradict Chuck Wilburn who ought to know way more about this stuff than I ever will, but I've follwed the discussions here fairly closely, and I don't think he's quite right.

At the heart of the CB is it's ECU controlling a whole range of things, including speed and rev limiters as well as fuel mixtures. God knows what else it does.

If all you want to do is change the fuel mixture mapping, a PCV plus a tune ought to do the trick as they can create a custom map for your bike. The speed and rev limiters will still be in place. So, that far anyway, Chuck is right.

If, however, you want to remove the speed and rev limiters, you must have your ECU reflashed. A PCV cannot do that for you. A reflash can also change the fuel mapping. If you get the person who does the reflash for you to put it on a dyno they should be able to create you a custom map.

There's nothing to stop you getting a reflash and installing a PCV. Indeed, if you wanted to keep playing around with the fuel map that may be the best option unless there's a reflash artist around the corner from you who can do it quickly or you can find a way to get into the ECU via your own computer—and I'm sure that's possible.

In summary: a reflash can do all the PCV can and then some. If you're happy to live with the speed and rev limiters and just want a custom fuel map, a PCV will do just fine.

Have I managed to make that clear or just added to your confusion
 
Inline4_imp said:
Inline4_imp said:
Cormanus_imp said:
I thought the general consensus was that you didn't need both a PCV and a reflash. As I understand it, the reflash does everything the PCV can do and then some.
Click to expand...
That's good to know Cormanus. That was what I was hoping to determine through replies to my original post, but I'm not very adept at relaying thoughts/questions through my keyboard. :blush:
I just sent an email to the tuner in Tupelo and hope to hear back from him in a few days. I'm also about to ask Mr T if he is aware of any quality issues with the Nojima exhausts he has sold. I'm getting pretty psyched over this exhaust!:biker:
Click to expand...
That's good to know Cormanus. That was what I was hoping to determine through replies to my original post, but I'm not very adept at relaying thoughts/questions through my keyboard. :blush:
I just sent an email to the tuner in Tupelo and hope to hear back from him in a few days. I'm also about to ask Mr T if he is aware of any quality issues with the Nojima exhausts he has sold. I'm getting pretty psyched over this exhaust!:biker:
I'm getting more confused all the time. Yea, I know........EVERYONE here is shocked!!! :D
This is the reply I got from Chuck Wilburn in Tupelo......

Hi Jim, sorry for the late reply- I was on vacation last week. You only need a power commander, I can do everything needed with that. A custom map will give your bike correct A/F ratio at every throttle position/rpm and will be reflected in hp. I can't map a bike to just gain hp in certain areas- all areas will be correct and the hp is what it is. I charge $300 cash, you can ride it down or trailer it, doesn't matter. Give me a call if you need more info. 662 840 4488
Click to expand...
From all I've read, here's my .02:

If you want the benefits available from a reflash of your ECU (removal of the speed limiter, increasing rev limits in lower gears, reducing engine braking, etc.), then it makes sense to do the reflash and have the available fuel map (which I understand to be the Dynojet map for a stock 2013 CB1100) downloaded onto your ECU. Last I read, it's $375. No need for a PC-V or a dyno tune. You may find that your bike performs great with the reflash alone. Done.

If you don't care to remove the speed limter or increase rev ranges, etc., but do want to improve HP, torque and throttle response, that can be accomplished in a couple ways: (1) Install a PC-V and simply run the available map (it's the stock 2013 CB1100 map currently available from Dynojet) without a dyno tune. With this scenario, you're only out the cost of the PC-V and installation if you don't do it yourself. Again, this may be sufficient to give you the performance you're looking for. Or, (2) You do what Chuck Wilburn is suggesting and you bring him your bike so he can run it on a dyno and develop a custom map. To do this, you'll need a PC-V since the dyno tune does not make any direct changes to your ECU. Some places offer packages that include the cost of the PC-V, installation and the dyno tune for a reduced cost. Once this is done, you're set unless and until you make subsequent changes to your engine/exhaust system which, depending on how significant the changes are, may require further fine tuning. Done.

But, let's say you're just one of those guys who has to have his bike performing at the utmost optimal (redundant, I know) level possible (and you have a lot of money to spend). Then you can reflash your ECU and run a PC-V with a custom map. You just need to figure out which to do first. I've read that Don Guhl can download a custom map from a PC-V onto the ECU during the reflash. I haven't confirmed this because I haven't called him and he has not responded to my emails or carrier pigeon messages. If this is true, and he can take your custom map and put it on the ECU during the reflash, then it doesn't matter which comes first - either you get a dyno tune and custom map first and Don uses that during the reflash or Don uses the stock map available from Dynojet during the reflash and you have it fine tuned afterwards with a dyno tune and custom map.

If, however, you find out that Don can ONLY use the stock map available from Dynojet during the reflash, then you should have the ECU reflashed first and the dyno tune performed afterwards. Again, this is assuming you're not happy with the performance you're getting from any of the other options already described. Just remember that any custom map will be programmed to make changes based on readings from the ECU. Change the fuel maps on the ECU AFTER development of the custom map and the changes made by the custom map are no longer appropriate/ideal.

How's that? Clear as mud? Sorry, I did my best.
Cormanus_imp said:
InLine4, far be it from me to contradict Chuck Wilburn who ought to know way more about this stuff than I ever will, but I've follwed the discussions here fairly closely, and I don't think he's quite right.

At the heart of the CB is it's ECU controlling a whole range of things, including speed and rev limiters as well as fuel mixtures. God knows what else it does.

If all you want to do is change the fuel mixture mapping, a PCV plus a tune ought to do the trick as they can create a custom map for your bike. The speed and rev limiters will still be in place. So, that far anyway, Chuck is right.

If, however, you want to remove the speed and rev limiters, you must have your ECU reflashed. A PCV cannot do that for you. A reflash can also change the fuel mapping. If you get the person who does the reflash for you to put it on a dyno they should be able to create you a custom map.

There's nothing to stop you getting a reflash and installing a PCV. Indeed, if you wanted to keep playing around with the fuel map that may be the best option unless there's a reflash artist around the corner from you who can do it quickly or you can find a way to get into the ECU via your own computer—and I'm sure that's possible.

In summary: a reflash can do all the PCV can and then some. If you're happy to live with the speed and rev limiters and just want a custom fuel map, a PCV will do just fine.

Have I managed to make that clear or just added to your confusion
Click to expand...
Both you and HikerToo are so much more concise than I am. I need to take notes. In fact, I think I just did.
 
:-) or get your CB1100 to Don, he'll put it on his Dyno, and tweak the ECU to best work with your bike.
That is what I did, hence the 2013 ECU flash people are getting from him is based on my 13' CB being on his Dyno.
I had my Staintune on for the Dyno work.
 
ECU reflash is also the only way to adjust timing, which can also enable more HP as changes to AFR are made.

I'm not sure I understand spending money on a custom tune when (provided you install a custom exhaust with the correct size O2 bung or have an exhaust shop weld one on) you could simply utilize the PCV's auto tune function...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To quote Monty Python: "My brain hurts!"
 
Techies version of what's the best oil for this bike lol
 
metallyguitarded_imp said:
grover_imp said:
To the OP, I think you'll find that opinions are somewhat divided on whether modifications to the ECU (reflash or Power Commander) are necessary to accommodate a full exhaust system.

I've seen a member post a dyno run from an unmodified ECU bike running a full exhaust with A/F ratios near bang-on 13:1, and others will attest that their bikes run fine without additional mods. However, I think we can agree that an ECU reflash (the only method that allows timing advances) would allow you to maximize your new exhaust system.

Best of luck with your decision!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I read that thread with great interest (I'd be more than happy to be able to just slap on an aftermarket exhaust and not worry about changing or adjusting anything regarding the A/F ratios) and went back just now to see if I could find it. If I'm right, you're referring to CIP57's charts and the discussion the two of you had. If so, he wrote:

"Here is what you can expect with a flash and a stock PC5 map installed into your ECU running a full Yoshi. The A/F ratio is almost spot on, running a bit rich on top. The bike runs much cooler with the added fuel."

I read that to mean the numbers he put up were showing the ratios after a reflash and download of a PC-V map while running a full Yoshi. Where it gets confusing is that he writes "stock PC5 map" but then also rights that the "bike runs much cooler with the added fuel." It's unclear what he means by a stock PC5 map - I take that to mean it's one of the pre-programmed maps already available on the PC-V for a Honda CB1100 running a full Yoshi exhaust (which means it is changing the A/F ratio) and not a custom map he or Don developed on their own. This is consistent with his next statement about the effect the "added fuel" has on the temp.

CIP57, if you're reading this, maybe you can clarify.
Click to expand...
I read that thread with great interest (I'd be more than happy to be able to just slap on an aftermarket exhaust and not worry about changing or adjusting anything regarding the A/F ratios) and went back just now to see if I could find it. If I'm right, you're referring to CIP57's charts and the discussion the two of you had. If so, he wrote:

"Here is what you can expect with a flash and a stock PC5 map installed into your ECU running a full Yoshi. The A/F ratio is almost spot on, running a bit rich on top. The bike runs much cooler with the added fuel."

I read that to mean the numbers he put up were showing the ratios after a reflash and download of a PC-V map while running a full Yoshi. Where it gets confusing is that he writes "stock PC5 map" but then also rights that the "bike runs much cooler with the added fuel." It's unclear what he means by a stock PC5 map - I take that to mean it's one of the pre-programmed maps already available on the PC-V for a Honda CB1100 running a full Yoshi exhaust (which means it is changing the A/F ratio) and not a custom map he or Don developed on their own. This is consistent with his next statement about the effect the "added fuel" has on the temp.

CIP57, if you're reading this, maybe you can clarify.
Just back from vacation in NC and catching up on threads.

Your correct, the stock PC5 map which adds fuel as noted in the graph Hiker has posted in combination with the full Yoshi will give you a spot on A/F ratio. There is not much more to gain by a personal tune. I have sent my map with A/F to a local tuner in Danbury Ct, he felt it would be a waste of time and money for a personal tune.
 
Welcome back CIP57! Thanks for clarifying. In the near future there will be a map available from Dynojet based on my 2014 CB1100 with a Yoshimura RS-3 slip-on. I have confirmed my appointment to bring my bike to their research facility in Las Vegas this Thursday. It will be interesting to see the differences between the 2013 and the 2014, if any. Unfortunately, I don't have the stock muffler to run an apples to apples comparison.
 
Thread starter
Well, going against the little voice in the back of my head, I'm going to take the plunge and buy this exhaust now. I figured I can get the tuning all sorted out by the time some consistent riding weather presents itself. :D
I guess I will find out soon enough just how much it costs to get the exhaust and the CB "on the same page".
This Nojima exhaust calls my name like a, well never mind. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talkin' about. :D :biker: :thumbsup:
Jim
 
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