I'm close to buying this exhaust, BUT

[Inline4_imp]

I've been drooling over this Nojima exhaust for months now. I'm really close to taking the plunge but I have a few questions.
Will the CB operate OK without have the ECU reflashed or buying a Power Commander? (I'm still overwhelmed with all the info about reflashing, etc).
Is there a special tool needed to remove that sensor from my stock exhaust and installing it on the Nojima?
Sorry if all this has been covered before, but I have read every thread and every post and am still not clear (shocker!!!) :-/ about what all the facts mean.
But check out this beautifully-crafted exhaust!! MERCY!!!! :heart:
http://www.samurider.com/?p=18295


I also found a sound clip on youtube that pretty much sold me on making the purchase. This pipe sounds so sweet!

 

[HondaJon_imp]

If you are going to get this exhaust, I strongly recommend the Power Commander. The bike runs soo much better with it.

I am sure she will run without it, but I am not sure how well.

And yes, you will need the Koken O2 socket if you do not go with the PC V . Takashi sells it on his site.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Definitely a nice looking exhaust. Were you able to find any customer reviews on Nojima? I'm unfamiliar with them and personally, would want to know more about the quality of the product before spending that much and having it shipped all the way from Japan. I, too, am a firm believer in needing to adjust your air:fuel ratio when making a big change to your exhaust system. And, of course, changing out the complete exhaust is a big change. Will your bike run "OK"? Maybe. But I assume what you really want is for it to run as good or better than in its stock form. Otherwise, don't make the change. My .02 is that you should never make modifications that sacrifice performance for style. At worst, your modifications should be neutral in their effect on your bike's performance. Wow, that sounds very opinionated. I suppose I'll leave it in there since you do seem to be asking for opinions. Along those lines, I say if you're satisfied that you're getting a good product, at a fair price, and it gives you the look you're going for, get the bike dyno tuned or do it yourself with a PC-V or have the ECU flashed. Why not take advantage of the added performance you can get from a properly tuned exhaust system? I know, cost. But if you're willing to spend that much on an aftermarket exhaust, I'm thinking you should be willing to spend a fraction of that to get your bike running at its best.

Good luck and let us know if you pull the trigger and, obviously, once you do, pictures are mandatory!

 

[pechorin75_imp]

Something else to consider...I don't know if it's really the same thing, but the finish on that exhaust looks similar what was on the stock pipe on my Kawasaki ZRX. It held up reasonably well, but even with regular cleaning there was corrosion starting on the lower portions of the down-tubes by the time I replaced it with a full Akra stainless system.

 

[grover_imp]

To the OP, I think you'll find that opinions are somewhat divided on whether modifications to the ECU (reflash or Power Commander) are necessary to accommodate a full exhaust system.

I've seen a member post a dyno run from an unmodified ECU bike running a full exhaust with A/F ratios near bang-on 13:1, and others will attest that their bikes run fine without additional mods. However, I think we can agree that an ECU reflash (the only method that allows timing advances) would allow you to maximize your new exhaust system.

Best of luck with your decision!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[emptysea]

+1 for Grover's post... I have not changed the ECU on my bike with the full Yoshimura exhaust. I need to confirm that my mechanic blocked the PAIR valve because I'm getting some popping on deceleration, but I have been assured by two honda mechanics who I trust that the stock ECU will adjust to the new configuration and the bike will have no issues other than being louder and possibly, but minutely, faster. I agree with Grover, though, that your new exhaust system would be enhanced by a re-flash or the addition of a Power Commander, although I am not at all familiar with your choice in exhausts.

Good luck.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

To the OP, I think you'll find that opinions are somewhat divided on whether modifications to the ECU (reflash or Power Commander) are necessary to accommodate a full exhaust system.

I've seen a member post a dyno run from an unmodified ECU bike running a full exhaust with A/F ratios near bang-on 13:1, and others will attest that their bikes run fine without additional mods. However, I think we can agree that an ECU reflash (the only method that allows timing advances) would allow you to maximize your new exhaust system.

Best of luck with your decision!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I read that thread with great interest (I'd be more than happy to be able to just slap on an aftermarket exhaust and not worry about changing or adjusting anything regarding the A/F ratios) and went back just now to see if I could find it. If I'm right, you're referring to CIP57's charts and the discussion the two of you had. If so, he wrote:

"Here is what you can expect with a flash and a stock PC5 map installed into your ECU running a full Yoshi. The A/F ratio is almost spot on, running a bit rich on top. The bike runs much cooler with the added fuel."

I read that to mean the numbers he put up were showing the ratios after a reflash and download of a PC-V map while running a full Yoshi. Where it gets confusing is that he writes "stock PC5 map" but then also rights that the "bike runs much cooler with the added fuel." It's unclear what he means by a stock PC5 map - I take that to mean it's one of the pre-programmed maps already available on the PC-V for a Honda CB1100 running a full Yoshi exhaust (which means it is changing the A/F ratio) and not a custom map he or Don developed on their own. This is consistent with his next statement about the effect the "added fuel" has on the temp.

CIP57, if you're reading this, maybe you can clarify.

 

[Motogeezer1949_imp]

How is this temperature measured? Oil temp gauge?

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Good question Motogeezer. So good, I won't even hazard a guess. I'll let the more educated chime in on that one.

Funny thing happens when a man, obsessed with his CB, takes time off from work but his wife doesn't. Leaving him alone in the house with nothing to do but read and post on the CB1100 forum. Don't worry guys, I'll go back to work soon enough. But until then ...

I've been doing a bit of research on the issue of A/F ratios and fuel management systems and the debate as to the necessity of something like the PC-V or a dyno tune with the addition of an aftermarket exhaust. We each will come to our own conclusions as to what needed vs. optimal vs. unnecessary vs. detrimental. My current position (subject to change) is that some adjustment to the A/F ratios is beneficial when putting on a full exhaust. Necessary might be too strong of a word but without some adjustment, it seems that running too lean seems to be the general consensus (not unanimous) among industry pros and moto forum "pros," resulting in unwanted consequences, most notably popping on deceleration. And, I suppose, though I haven't seen hard data, that running too hot for too long will have long-term negative effects on the engine.

While reading more about all of this, it caused me to rethink what CIP57 meant by his statement and what was being shown with his graphs. I now understand that to mean that he added a PC-V and used the stock map that came with the unit designed for the CB1100. I've learned that, at least to date, there is no downloadable Power Commander map for a CB1100 running a full Yoshimura exhaust. However, the stock map does in fact change the A/F ratio from the lean condition the bike has from the factory, to a richer, more optimal condition. This fuel enrichment appears to be sufficient to address any popping on decel with the full Yoshi installed and, according to the charts posted, has the CB running at near optimal A/F ratios throughout the entire range.

Bazzaz is a company that also makes a fuel management system compatible with our bike and has a stock map and a stock + slip-on map. I wonder if that would come even closer to an ideal ratio with the full exhaust. Either way, it lessens my concern with getting the full exhaust system. If (when) I do, I'll purchase either the PC-V or the Bazzaz unit and run the stock map, avoiding a dyno tune if at all possible.

And, not surprisingly, my wife has taken advantage of my availability and sent me a honey-do list for today. I've posted enough for one day I think. See you all tomorrow!

 

[emptysea]

^ best combination of humor and technical information I've seen on this forum.

(still sticking with my stock ECU for my bike, though)

 

[HikerToo_imp]

To the OP, I think you'll find that opinions are somewhat divided on whether modifications to the ECU (reflash or Power Commander) are necessary to accommodate a full exhaust system.

I've seen a member post a dyno run from an unmodified ECU bike running a full exhaust with A/F ratios near bang-on 13:1, and others will attest that their bikes run fine without additional mods. However, I think we can agree that an ECU reflash (the only method that allows timing advances) would allow you to maximize your new exhaust system.

Best of luck with your decision!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I read that thread with great interest (I'd be more than happy to be able to just slap on an aftermarket exhaust and not worry about changing or adjusting anything regarding the A/F ratios) and went back just now to see if I could find it. If I'm right, you're referring to CIP57's charts and the discussion the two of you had. If so, he wrote:

"Here is what you can expect with a flash and a stock PC5 map installed into your ECU running a full Yoshi. The A/F ratio is almost spot on, running a bit rich on top. The bike runs much cooler with the added fuel."

I read that to mean the numbers he put up were showing the ratios after a reflash and download of a PC-V map while running a full Yoshi. Where it gets confusing is that he writes "stock PC5 map" but then also rights that the "bike runs much cooler with the added fuel." It's unclear what he means by a stock PC5 map - I take that to mean it's one of the pre-programmed maps already available on the PC-V for a Honda CB1100 running a full Yoshi exhaust (which means it is changing the A/F ratio) and not a custom map he or Don developed on their own. This is consistent with his next statement about the effect the "added fuel" has on the temp.

CIP57, if you're reading this, maybe you can clarify.

CIP's ECU was sent to Don, it was not put on Don's Dyno.
Don loaded the PCV map settings into the ECU, I believe there is only one map available from DynoJet fro the CB1100, its with stock exhaust, its loaded on the PCV when you buy it and its the same one available for download.
Changes shown in app below.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Thanks Hiker! This reminds me of another consideration - the different gearing for the 2014. That complicates things some. I'll have to check with Dynojet to see if they've developed a stock map for the 2014. I thought I saw one but now I'm not sure.

 

[HikerToo_imp]

Thanks Hiker! This reminds me of another consideration - the different gearing for the 2014. That complicates things some. I'll have to check with Dynojet to see if they've developed a stock map for the 2014. I thought I saw one but now I'm not sure.

Looking at the chart, seems like they are just going by % throttle and RPM to add fuel, it's not specific to gears...look at top, says for gears 1 thru 5. unless the 2014 has actual engine differences that would effect fuel ratios?

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

It's that unaccounted for 6th gear that had me thinking. I sent an email to Dynojet this morning asking if the addition of the 6th gear would affect or change the appropriateness of using the stock 2013 map. I got a quick response from a senior product manager who said he wasn't sure and that they've been trying to get a 2014 into their facility. I asked if he'd be interested in a mutually beneficial exchange - me bringing in my CB so they can develop a map in exchange for a PC-V. I told him about the forum, our discussions on the issue, and that I'd share my results, including an honest assessment of any improvements to rideability. He agreed! I'll be riding to Vegas next week to have this done.

Stay tuned (see what I did there?)

 

[Elipten_imp]

I will be waiting for the report.


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[HikerToo_imp]

cool, than maybe plan a trip to Lancaster, PA for a Dyno run in Don's shop for the ECU flash to be 14 specific
May as well make a full trip out of it!

 

[Inline4_imp]

I hope to chat with a tuner here in town that comes highly recommended by some riders I've been talking to.
I want to find out if I need a re-flash AND a Power Commander. However I don't know if he has a dyno; surely he does.
From my research in the net, there is also a tuner that DOES have a dyno that is located in Tupelo, MS.
A lot of the 'busa guys take their bike to him. Tupelo is just over an hour from here.
I might as well go ahead and place the order with Mr T.

 

[Cormanus]

I thought the general consensus was that you didn't need both a PCV and a reflash. As I understand it, the reflash does everything the PCV can do and then some.

 

[Inline4_imp]

I thought the general consensus was that you didn't need both a PCV and a reflash. As I understand it, the reflash does everything the PCV can do and then some.

That's good to know Cormanus. That was what I was hoping to determine through replies to my original post, but I'm not very adept at relaying thoughts/questions through my keyboard. :blush:
I just sent an email to the tuner in Tupelo and hope to hear back from him in a few days. I'm also about to ask Mr T if he is aware of any quality issues with the Nojima exhausts he has sold. I'm getting pretty psyched over this exhaust!:biker:

 

[HikerToo_imp]

In the past, typical tuners have had problems with our CB due to the speed and RPM limits on the CB. Can't hit redline in top 2 or 3 gears.
I think they have to do their work in 3rd gear......but what work can they really do if they can't hack into the ECU.....I believe that's all where it needs to be done.
hence the need for a place like Guhl's who can flash our ECU......or a plug-in PCV which can do fuel mixture, but not timing or remove RPM speed limits.......back again to ECU flash.........